I would have never considered going ampless...but...with the VTD I certainly would with no hesitation. Whenever I hear the bass in the FOH during a sound check I'm always impressed. I like it better than the DI on any of my all tube amps! But I still like hearing my amp and cab. I'm old fashioned.
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For me personally, I've found that depending on settings, my VTDI's compression characteristics just from the limiter and mild distortion to be enough for me, but the HPF definitely appears to be needed unless its "subsonic filter" works in some way that I'm not familiar with (possible). My 3-band StingRay 5 has one built in at 60Hz, so I'm set, but man, if you choose to to use the VTDI as an actual DI and use the XLR out... well, see for yourself:
This is what a frequency sweep looks like through my VTDI with a particular setting, blend full-SansAmp with bite and speaker sim on. Green is the 1/4" out, and blue the XLR.
I still have my BDDI on my desktop to act as front end into my sound card for practicing/learning material (through Tannoy Reveals with a KRK sub). A BDDI V2 stays in my gig bag just in case, and one of my standby rigs is a RPM into one side of a QSC PLX1804 (I draw the line at using one of my PLX3602s as my amp...that's just crazy talk!)
If I weren't currently enamored of my Mesa D-800+ the RPM would be getting a LOT more stage time, but the sound/weight/convenience of the Mesa currently is hard to beat for me. Love me some Tech21 though.
If I weren't currently enamored of my Mesa D-800+ the RPM would be getting a LOT more stage time, but the sound/weight/convenience of the Mesa currently is hard to beat for me. Love me some Tech21 though.
- Oct 22, 2015
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For me personally, I've found that depending on settings, my VTDI's compression characteristics just from the limiter and mild distortion to be enough for me, but the HPF definitely appears to be needed unless its "subsonic filter" works in some way that I'm not familiar with (possible). My 3-band StingRay 5 has one built in at 60Hz, so I'm set, but man, if you choose to to use the VTDI as an actual DI and use the XLR out... well, see for yourself:
This is what a frequency sweep looks like through my VTDI with a particular setting, blend full-SansAmp with bite and speaker sim on. Green is the 1/4" out, and blue the XLR.
View attachment 3234663
Out of my depth here.
My immediate needs IRL mean my VTDx is my only DI unless I go yet smaller / lighter with the VTDI. And completely uncertain how what I see in the frequency sweep works out through FOH.
Just pointing out what appears to be an oddity with the VTDI: the frequency response for the XLR out has a lot more sub low-end included for the exact same settings/signal when level matched. It seems like if you're wanting to control those frequencies with the XLR out, an HPF would definitely be in order. Kind of interesting IMO for a preamp with a cab sim.
As it pertains to FOH, unless you really want to take control of your signal and limit the low-end extension you give the engineer as a matter of tone (many justifiably do), then it probably doesn't matter much, as most engineers should be comfortable with using their own HPFs and other tools to control low-end for the room. But then again... that also applies to using a separate outboard HPF as well, strictly speaking in terms of FOH.
Al Kraft
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I've been a Tech 21 fan for a long time and that applies to their gear and the company. At the moment I own the last generation BDDI and PDDI, a BDDI V2 and a VT Bass V2 pedal (not the DI).
I've yet to hear a Tech 21 product I didn't think delivered what was designed to. The company has always been great when I've called for advice and Tech 21 quality and reliability is top tier in my experience.
I've yet to hear a Tech 21 product I didn't think delivered what was designed to. The company has always been great when I've called for advice and Tech 21 quality and reliability is top tier in my experience.
Argh!
Just as I was warming up to option two, with maybe a little lower character for even less of that mid-saturation glass/presence.While I didn't post my VTDI settings for either clip, they're EQ'd fairly similar as you can probably tell, but with different character/drive settings. I think those two actually do a good job of showing what the character knob does.
Setting 1 has a 10:30 character setting (the higher of the two) and actually a lower drive setting, but because there are more mids saturating the drive circuit from character, to my ears it sounds more glassy and present from the harmonics generated by them. I know those are usually terms often associated with highs, but to me they work here - setting one appears to me to have a mid-y sheen, and sounds a bit more compressed.
Setting 2 has a 9:00 character setting and higher drive, and sounds more or less as you'd expect with less mids available to saturate the drive circuit from character. Stronger low end, a little bit more high-end snap (but maybe not as clanky), and with that mid to high-mid ringing/sheen pulled back slightly.
I initially chose setting one because I knew those extra mids would allow me to punch through in the mix more, which it definitely did, but I've since started to wonder if all of that extra mid harmonic richness might be coming too much at the expense of the guitars. My thinking is that maybe if I pull that back a little I can actually raise the bass level slightly and eek out a little more low end before covering guitars for the next track...
Decisions, decisions...
- Oct 22, 2015
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Yes, much clearer thank you.
Mayhap I play a gig with an engineer who needs me to disengage my HPF then I'm happy to do so
For now traveling ultra-light with only the VTBDx in the gig bag ....The observation about compression hit a chord (sorry low hanging fruit) as this thread
Tech 21 VT Bass DI + Compression
is freshly necro'd (not by me).
TL;DR Some report they hear compression and Tech 21 says there is no compression circuit inside.
This is what VTDI's manual says:
3) When you push VT Bass DI to saturation, you get enhanced harmonics, just as you would with
an overdriven tube amplifier. Depending on the setting, the unique circuitry limits transient peaks
for an even meter reading, so that outboard compressors or limiters may not be necessary.
I currently own 4 Tech21 pedals
1. VT Bass Deluxe.
2. Q\Strip.
3. Leeds Character.
4 Sansamp Para Driver
I like them all but I obviously don't use them all at the same time.
1. VT Bass Deluxe.
2. Q\Strip.
3. Leeds Character.
4 Sansamp Para Driver
I like them all but I obviously don't use them all at the same time.
Option 2 definitely is more scooped and has more highs relative to mids (also more lows), but I dunno - to my ear Option 1 has this... maybe bell-like ringing sound? (maybe not glassy) from the saturated mids.
Yeah, it was either in that thread you noted, or some other where Tech 21 told me the same.
Nothing against the online reps... and not necessarily that I inherently trust manuals either, but yeah - as @Zbysek noted, the limiting function is a hallmark of the SansAmp tech - one of the many reasons why they work so well for recording. Just re-posting the same thing formatting a little better from the VTDI manual:
"3) When you push VT Bass DI to saturation, you get enhanced harmonics, just as you would with an overdriven tube amplifier. Depending on the setting, the unique circuitry limits transient peaks for an even meter reading, so that outboard compressors or limiters may not be necessary"
Also:
(As an aside, that setting kind of makes me wonder where the limiter is in the circuit - if it falls after the post-SansAmp circuit EQ, I wonder if it's affected by the EQ levels - as in, higher EQ across the board, would cause the stronger signal to compress more).
Anyways, regardless of what the manual says, my ears say there is compression... but those aren't always quite so easy for others to trust. My eyes on the other hand... whether its more from the limiter, or from the distortion, if you look at the waveform of a signal coming out of the VTDI, it is VERY easy to see the limiter/compression in action. I remember at one point I tossed a WAV over to my drummer to pop it into the mix in logic - his comment to me was "damn, that's a wall". It sure was.
I probably won't have a chance to record anything tonight as I'll be rehearsing, but given that the VTDI has a parallel out, it's super easy to tell: record in stereo, with one channel being affected, and the other unaffected and compare. All comparisons of the waveforms I've ever seen support the notion that sometimes significant compression is taking place depending on settings.
It's all relative, and depends on the mix. I'd argue that most recorded bass would show as mid-scooped to some extent. Whether that happens at the bass, via a preamp, or in post.
The issue is when your baseline is scooped (as most preamps'/amps' default voicing is), and then you scoop more. Honestly, I don't think that either of those tones I posted (both scooped, see example in post #62) would have difficulty punching through - the one in that completed track I posted I don't think suffers for it. Again, all relative.
It's all relative, and depends on the mix. I'd argue that most recorded bass would show as mid-scooped to some extent. Whether that happens at the bass, via a preamp, or in post.
The issue is when your baseline is scooped (as most preamps'/amps' default voicing is), and then you scoop more. Honestly, I don't think that either of those tones I posted (both scooped, see example in post #62) would have difficulty punching through - the one in that completed track I posted I don't think suffers for it. Again, all relative.
OK, fair enough. Mine was a generalization. What I wanted to say was: "option 1 will cut through better, IMO"
That is exactly the first thing that I would do if I had that pedal board in my possession.
