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Tech 21 VT Bass 1969 head!

#401
You're not the only one, Pablo. Most of us in this thread have been telling them to up the power on this bad boy for a while now. Unfortunately, I think this amp is going to flop. When you're main consumer base is telling you that your product looks great but needs x, y, z tweaks before they'd buy it then you better listen. I hope it sells. I really would like to see one of my favorite companies remain successful, but I don't see it happening with this head.
 
#402
This, in spades, X 1000!!!!!!!!


pablomigraine said:
Nobody here wants to be argumentative, and it sounds like you're maybe not so open to suggestion, but if you were to name a dozen "rock" and "metal" oriented amps, and then tack yours on the bottom of the list.... yours would be the only one with less than 500 - 600 watts. If that makes sense to you and your business model obviously we're not going to convince you otherwise..... but I can tell you from experience in 7 years of touring and playing every single night with at least 4 or 5 other bands, both locals and nationals, I have never ONCE seen your landmark head, used by anyone, anywhere. I have, on the other hand, seen dozens, maybe hundreds, of people using more than one Sansamp RBI and / or RPM with a heavy duty power amplifier making 800W or better.... because that's the only practical way these players can get the sound your company is so good at making and have it be useful in a real-world setting. There's no way you can claim that the landmark head sold well compared to virtually any other rock-oriented amp... this head will not sell well either.... and the ONLY reason for that is.... the power output. Make this amp with a solid 750 - 1000w and you'll have yourself a best seller. If the general theme of this thread, the previous performance of your other low-powered head compared to the WILDLY popular preamp circuits of that same head are not enough to convince you that you're doing it wrong... well then I dunno what to say...

I guess I didnt really mean to sound as coarse as I did here.... but I'm honestly aggravated.... I would buy this head in exactly 2 seconds flat if it had even the double the wattage it does... if it made 1000 watts.... you'd already have my credit card number!
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#403
jmattbassplaya said:
You're not the only one, Pablo. Most of us in this thread have been telling them to up the power on this bad boy for a while now. Unfortunately, I think this amp is going to flop. When you're main consumer base is telling you that your product looks great but needs x, y, z tweaks before they'd buy it then you better listen. I hope it sells. I really would like to see one of my favorite companies remain successful, but I don't see it happening with this head.
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100% agreed. This head will flop completely just like the landmark, although I don't think Tech21NYC will be in any trouble.... it's insane to me that they didn't learn their lesson the first time. 300 watts was a lot for a head 20 years ago... not anymore. When every other comparable product on the market outperforms your product by 200 - 300%.... it cant be any surprise when your product flops..... I dont think anyone would even care if the TONE of the preamp circuits in this amp weren't to die for..... from the one or two comments made by the company in this thread.... I'm guess they feel pretty strongly that they know better than we do..... perhaps based on the opinion of ONE touring guy who hasn't played a gig without extensive and sophisticated PA support anytime in the last 10 years.... and could do just fine with a 10w amp since it all gets mic'd anyway.....for me, and the vast majority of touring metal and rock bands I know.... we never know what kinda room we're walking into or what, if any, PA support we'll have.... so we better have 800+ watts and at least a 610 to get the job done in a pinch....
 
#406
Even for an amateur hack like me, who plays mainly small bars, 300 watts isn't enough today. When the standard cab was an 810 fridge 300 watts was fine, but now most players in my world expect to haul a 410 or smaller (maybe pair of 12s) which need more power to be heard in that context. I am using a Crown XLS and a VT deluxe into my LDS 15-6 : a modern setup that weighs half what the 810 would, and fits in the back seat of a Golf. I could do it with 300 watts and an 810, but that would be.......stupid.
 
#408
My favorite bit in this whole thread is where Tech21 says:

One size fits all seems like a nice idea but I rarely see a guy with an SVT stack at a wedding gig.
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Any wedding players here thinking about buying THIS HEAD for your wedding gigs? Need that insane grind and crunch for your cover of some Bryan Ferry tunes? LOLLOLLOL!!

I really think we're barking up the wrong tree here guys.... I went back and re-read all of the posts from the manufacturer here.... and it's clear they feel they know better than we, the consumers do.... they're not going to up the power on this head.... if they do it will be minimal and probably too late at that point. If you're making cleanish, hi-fi and highly flexible heads with lots of features for the club gigger.... you can get away with 450 watts or maybe even 300. But this head looks to me like the brand new 2012 CORVETTE with a 1.6L 4-cylinder... and the press release insisting plenty of people love that 1.6L four-banger.....in the 3-door subcompact.... but nobody who wants to drive a friggen corvette with anything less than 8 cylinders!!

Tech21NYC is DEAD WRONG about this... they're dead wrong for the second time in 7 years, and something tells me the commercial failure of this amp will do little to change their minds. Again.... absolutely no one would care and this thread would have died on page 2.... if the preamp tone was not so sweet. This amp is destined to be one of the great Almost-Was of the new decade. Shame.

"Rocket engine of a power section"
 
#409
I chimed in on this amp earlier, and despite that video posted where they "demonstrated" the new amp is as loud as an SVT, I have a/b'ed the Landmark 300 (which uses the same power section) and my 70's SVT and the Landmark wasn't close to comparable volume.

My advice is to compare the two yourself before you choose this amp over an SVT.

And I'm with everyone 100% on this being a killer amp with a beefier poweramp in it. Like Pablo I often play venues without giant PA's and my amp needs to carry more workload than this amp can handle.
 
#410
i'm generally one of the first ones to say that 300 watts often isn't enough, but it all depends on the individual amp. my old acoustic 370 and 320's are only 300 watt heads and they're easily as loud (before distortion) than the genz benz streamliner 900 that i have on loan right now (which IMO, is a loud, powerful amp) and the old acoustics are also much louder than my Eden WT550-B running at 2 ohms (750w).
 
#411
johnk_10 said:
i'm generally one of the first ones to say that 300 watts often isn't enough, but it all depends on the individual amp. my old acoustic 370 and 320's are only 300 watt heads and they're easily as loud (before distortion) than the genz benz streamliner 900 that i have on loan right now (which IMO, is a loud, powerful amp) and the old acoustics are also much louder than my Eden WT550-B running at 2 ohms (750w).
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Well.... we all know they don't make em like they used to.... the "Real" Acoustic was still around today, they could release that same amp and call it 600 watts. They certainly were very powerful...
 
#414
Love the VT stuff so not trying to pile on here but very interesting the quip about weight to power ratio that Tech 21 made as not being a metric of decision making in buying. The Class D stuff is turning everything on its ear whether anyone likes it or not.

SVT-7 Pro - 15lbs with 1000w of Ampeg tone for $800??? When I get either weaker or smarter I'll stop lugging my tube amps around. ;)
 
#415
Actually the 370 was only 300 watts at 2 ohm!

We also need to remember that TB is a great sounding board but we are hardly representative of the buying public.

We are also not businessmen. They could have a great profit model built around this design.

I'm not a Tech 21 apologist. I'm actually not even a Tech 21 user and I don't agree with their "you guys don't know what your talking about" mentality but, watts are meaningless numbers. Unfortunately, Tech 21 needs to realize that bass players do get hung up on those meaningless numbers. Their rig could be plenty loud but the market has changed. I prefer a good lead sled myself but my Markbass sounds just fine too.
 
#416
Jonyak said:
If it is comparable to the 300W of a real SVT, I can say it will be plenty loud enough.
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Find me a 300w SS amp that gets as "loud" as an all-tube SVT.... no such thing.

christw said:
They are, in name at least, and they're marketing it as up to 400 watts from the 361 cabinet's power amp IIRC.
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Wholly owned by Guitar Center.


father of fires said:
Actually the 370 was only 300 watts at 2 ohm!

We also need to remember that TB is a great sounding board but we are hardly representative of the buying public.

We are also not businessmen. They could have a great profit model built around this design.

I'm not a Tech 21 apologist. I'm actually not even a Tech 21 user and I don't agree with their "you guys don't know what your talking about" mentality but, watts are meaningless numbers. Unfortunately, Tech 21 needs to realize that bass players do get hung up on those meaningless numbers. Their rig could be plenty loud but the market has changed. I prefer a good lead sled myself but my Markbass sounds just fine too.
Click to expand...

All this is correct..... but any smart business who designed a new product from the ground up (the landmark) that failed utterly.....they have a responsibility to find out why.... and the answer is, and was, the weak power section.... and they further have the responsibility to not repeat that mistake. If Tech21NYC made this new head with greater than 600 watts, they would have one of the best selling amps on the market IMHO. I remember back a few years ago, before Musiciansfriend dropped the Landmark amp for utter lack of sales, you could go to the "Bass Amps" category and Sort by MOST POPULAR, and the Landmark was DEAD LAST. Go to the "Bass Preamps" section and sort by popularity and the RBI and RPM were the TOP TWO!! What does that tell you.... it tells you that the rest of the world feels the same way about it that talkbass does.... and this company has given me the distinct impression they are not only totally out of touch with their customers, lack a very basic understanding of this segment of the MI industry, aren't interested in learning, and fully believe that they're right and everyone else is wrong. Makes me sad. The only thing that interests me about this amp is whether it's equipped with a Preamp Out so I can mate it to a proper power amplifier....

Here's a word of business advice..... just because you make the best muffler in the business doesnt mean you dont need to do any market research when you decide to start making transmissions.......
 
#417
pablomigraine said:
Find me a 300w SS amp that gets as "loud" as an all-tube SVT.... no such thing.



Wholly owned by Guitar Center.




All this is correct..... but any smart business who designed a new product from the ground up (the landmark) that failed utterly.....they have a responsibility to find out why.... and the answer is, and was, the weak power section.... and they further have the responsibility to not repeat that mistake. If Tech21NYC made this new head with greater than 600 watts, they would have one of the best selling amps on the market IMHO. I remember back a few years ago, before Musiciansfriend dropped the Landmark amp for utter lack of sales, you could go to the "Bass Amps" category and Sort by MOST POPULAR, and the Landmark was DEAD LAST. Go to the "Bass Preamps" section and sort by popularity and the RBI and RPM were the TOP TWO!! What does that tell you.... it tells you that the rest of the world feels the same way about it that talkbass does.... and this company has given me the distinct impression they are not only totally out of touch with their customers, lack a very basic understanding of this segment of the MI industry, aren't interested in learning, and fully believe that they're right and everyone else is wrong. Makes me sad. The only thing that interests me about this amp is whether it's equipped with a Preamp Out so I can mate it to a proper power amplifier....

Here's a word of business advice..... just because you make the best muffler in the business doesnt mean you dont need to do any market research when you decide to start making transmissions.......
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Agreed. Wholeheartedly.
 
#418
pablomigraine said:
just because you make the best muffler in the business doesnt mean you dont need to do any market research when you decide to start making transmissions.......
Click to expand...

Bingo. The proactive question isn't whether 300 watts will "get you through" the gig, it's whether 500 watts or more will make you likely to buy this product over the considerable competition.
 
#420
I used to play my Mesa 400+ at wedding gigs...does that count? ;)

As another who has abandoned regular heads for a pre/power setup so I could get beef in the power section, I can understand people being underwhelmed by 300w. Unless you have an extremely well designed power management system (read that as 'as good a technology as TC Electronics used to fleece people') I can't see this being much of a head turner. Even 300w micro-amps aren't head turners anymore.
 

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