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Tech 21 VT Bass DI

#61
I'm glad I just found this thread, having recently purchased the VT DI.

In another thread I started about the bite button, I got a reply from tech21nyc that provides a bit of info you all might also be interested in, so I will quote it here:

"The "bite" button on the VT Bass DI adds the subsonic filter and presence boost that is part of the VT Bass' signature sound. When bypassed, the subsonic filter and presence boost is removed. The sound now becomes more full range.

The speaker sim on the VT Bass DI is the same circuit that is on the original and V2 units. When bypassed however, there is no high cut filter like on the V2 pedals.

These new features enable you to obtain sounds that are not available on the V1 and V2 VT Bass pedals.

Keep in mind that the VT Bass and DI version are designed as amp emulators for direct use but can also be used with a traditional bass or power amp and speaker. Always consider what you are plugging the pedal into. A mixing board is usually a flat response platform whereas a bass amp may have its own EQ contour and many bass cabs are optimized for bass guitar use."
 
#62
Your info "Jeffkew" mirrors what I'm hearing with the VT Bass DI having owned both previous versions. They separated the features of the v2 speaker sim defeat button more or less. This bite switch on the VTDI along with the blend are the 2 key features that are most usefull to me. I can leave the speaker sim on now if I want a more extended low end & not have the harsh highs/mids via the bite switch out.
 
#65
jeffkew said:
I'm glad I just found this thread, having recently purchased the VT DI.

In another thread I started about the bite button, I got a reply from tech21nyc that provides a bit of info you all might also be interested in, so I will quote it here:

"The "bite" button on the VT Bass DI adds the subsonic filter and presence boost that is part of the VT Bass' signature sound. When bypassed, the subsonic filter and presence boost is removed. The sound now becomes more full range.

The speaker sim on the VT Bass DI is the same circuit that is on the original and V2 units. When bypassed however, there is no high cut filter like on the V2 pedals.

These new features enable you to obtain sounds that are not available on the V1 and V2 VT Bass pedals.

Keep in mind that the VT Bass and DI version are designed as amp emulators for direct use but can also be used with a traditional bass or power amp and speaker. Always consider what you are plugging the pedal into. A mixing board is usually a flat response platform whereas a bass amp may have its own EQ contour and many bass cabs are optimized for bass guitar use."
Click to expand...
Yeah, the more I've played with it, the less and less I like the VT DI. Tech21 is extremely aggrivating to me. For years they tweak products in ways that it doesn't seem anyone is asking for. The Bite switch for example would be perfect if it didn't also mess with the low end. I like that it removes that overly aggressive upper mid presence, but it also extends the low end which makes the button useless to me.

I can also tell the screwed with the speaker sim switch. Turning it off now is instantly clanky and shrill which is not characteristic of a vintage emulation pedal at all. Worthless.

The VT Bass DI is my least favorite of all the VT pedals. Mine is going up for sale soon.
 
#66
Eublet said:
Yeah, the more I've played with it, the less and less I like the VT DI. Tech21 is extremely aggrivating to me. For years they tweak products in ways that it doesn't seem anyone is asking for. The Bite switch for example would be perfect if it didn't also mess with the low end. I like that it removes that overly aggressive upper mid presence, but it also extends the low end which makes the button useless to me.

I can also tell the screwed with the speaker sim switch. Turning it off now is instantly clanky and shrill which is not characteristic of a vintage emulation pedal at all. Worthless.

The VT Bass DI is my least favorite of all the VT pedals. Mine is going up for sale soon.
Click to expand...

It seems like your opinion of this pedal has really declined. :( So you really miss not having that subsonic filter when the bite switch is off? What do you suppose the subsonic filter does, cut low end at some frequency?

I'm still working with my new VTDI pedal, trying to figure out good ways to use it. I've found that I typically like to keep the blend fully in the wet / 100% effected side, otherwise it starts to sound a little mushy, less defined. I never had the previous versions of the pedal so I don't know what characteric(s) people loved in the pedal when it first came out, and I'm not sure if the DI version is nailing those things.
 
#67
jeffkew said:
It seems like your opinion of this pedal has really declined. :( So you really miss not having that subsonic filter when the bite switch is off? What do you suppose the subsonic filter does, cut low end at some frequency?

I'm still working with my new VTDI pedal, trying to figure out good ways to use it. I've found that I typically like to keep the blend fully in the wet / 100% effected side, otherwise it starts to sound a little mushy, less defined. I never had the previous versions of the pedal so I don't know what characteric(s) people loved in the pedal when it first came out, and I'm not sure if the DI version is nailing those things.
Click to expand...

I just find Tech21 to be occasionally very aggravating in the way they change features and don't give people what it seems they want (at least around here). The Bite/edginess of the previous VT's was something that many people complained about...myself included. The low-end of the VT's was always great for that vintage tone though...nice and tight such that you could boost lows without making it boomy. Removing the subsonic filter opens up the low end such that it gets boomy very easy if you boost the bottom. For the life of me I can't figure out why they'd make that a part of the "Bite" switch. It's just so annoying to me because it seems at first like the pedal finally has the feature so many have asked for, but they implement something extra that I don't know that I've seen anyone ask for.

It's not that the VT DI is a bad pedal...it's just that I've been very disappointed with it when trying to use it in some live situations. I've wound up having to leave the Bite and Speaker Sim on, which basically means it's no different than the VT Deluxe. The Bite was the ONLY reason I wanted this new one, but I hate that open ended bottom. Doesn't sound vintage at all to me. Others will likely love it.
 
#68
I would try turning the speaker sim off as well Eublet then boost the lows & play with the blend & character. The eq always seems a little goosed to me on Tech 21 pedals at 12 oclock. Try full blend turn all eq down all the way & bring each one up one at a time & you'll hear how quickly each frequency becomes apparent. I tend to keep the lows at 11 oclock or lower with the speaker sim engaged, 12 oclock or higher with lower character settings if it is bypassed. You'll want a higher level setting if you do this & the +10 db switch is there if you need a hotter signal still.
 
#69
Eublet said:
Yeah, the more I've played with it, the less and less I like the VT DI. Tech21 is extremely aggrivating to me. For years they tweak products in ways that it doesn't seem anyone is asking for. The Bite switch for example would be perfect if it didn't also mess with the low end. I like that it removes that overly aggressive upper mid presence, but it also extends the low end which makes the button useless to me.

I can also tell the screwed with the speaker sim switch. Turning it off now is instantly clanky and shrill which is not characteristic of a vintage emulation pedal at all. Worthless.

The VT Bass DI is my least favorite of all the VT pedals. Mine is going up for sale soon.
Click to expand...

I guess it would help to know how you are using the pedal and what you are using it with. Using it direct vs with an amp really can change the way you should approach the pedal.

With the Bite switch engaged you get the original VT Bass sound. You can dial out the difference in high end with the bite switch "in" vs "out" by rolling back the High control and still retain the subsonic filter. Usually when players say the pedal is too "bright" they are using it into a bass amp that already has some high end dialed in or using an active bass with some high end added. Basically high end is either being added before or after the pedal and when the pedal is put in line the high end becomes exaggerated. When you use the pedal into a mixer, we assume that the channel will be set flat and that is a full range and hopefully flat response system. Bass amps aren't PA systems. They usually provide their own tonal color and their speakers are optimized for a bass guitar application. This is why we make the EQ controls on the Character Series active. There is usually enough range to make it work.

If you're using the pedal as more of a stompbox distortion effect or you just like to play with an aggressive over driven sound, you will have better success keeping the bite and speaker sim engaged as this will keep the pedal from sounding mushy and retain focus.

If you're using the pedal for a more transparent clean tone with a tiny bit of amp like compression having those switches in the "out" position may prove very beneficial.
 
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#70
tech21nyc said:
I guess it would help to know how you are using the pedal and what you are using it with. Using it direct vs with an amp really can change the way you should approach the pedal.

With the Bite switch engaged you get the original VT Bass sound. You can dial out the difference in high end with the bite switch "in" vs "out" by rolling back the High control and still retain the subsonic filter. Usually when players say the pedal is too "bright" they are using it into a bass amp that already has some high end dialed in or using an active bass with some high end added. Basically high end is either being added before or after the pedal and when the pedal is put in line the high end becomes exaggerated. When you use the pedal into a mixer, we assume that the channel will be set flat and that is a full range and hopefully flat response system. Bass amps aren't PA systems. They usually provide their own tonal color and their speakers are optimized for a bass guitar application. This is why we make the EQ controls on the Character Series active. There is usually enough range to make it work.

If you're using the pedal as more of a stompbox distortion effect or you just like to play with an aggressive over driven sound, you will have better success keeping the bite and speaker sim engaged as this will keep the pedal from sounding mushy and retain focus.

If you're using the pedal for a more transparent clean tone with a tiny bit of amp like compression having those switches in the "out" position may prove very beneficial.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe I've exchanged comments here with Tech21 in the past about the VT as well as your other pedals. In general, I'm a big fan. There are little things that are an annoyance to me. I use most all the pedals direct into a mixer, either in the studio or for live use. I hardly ever run them through an amp, so I'm using headphones or in-ears for listening back.

I really don't want to distract this thread by responding to your suggestions here. They are good ones, albeit things I've tried in the past. I can make the VT DI and all your other pedals work for me. I've used them hundreds of times. As I've suggested, nothing here is bad, but just annoying to me. I just don't like that the Bite modifies anything other than that higher frequency peak. I don't like that the Speaker Sim is different. The first one is just my preference. The latter I think is a bit misleading since so many are used to the way it functioned on the v2 pedal. I don't mean either critique to be harsh. Rather, the VT Bass Deluxe is so close to being perfect to me that it's just a bit irritating when I can't get the upper end response I want from the EQ. A presence knob (rather than an on/off bite switch) to control that would be super cool, for me at least. The Presence knob on the BDDI is the best thing about that pedal for example.

It's all good though. Since I already have a VT Deluxe, I'll probably just continue using it and sell the VT DI since the newer features don't have any use for my needs. I hope you guys sell a ton of these as I think they're good units. Hopefully one of these days though, you'll add a semi-para mid and presence control to the VT Deluxe. :D
 
#71
I can understand Eublets frustration, the speaker sim defeat was fine for me on V2 I would have liked the pedal to have continued that format with the blend & the bite switch just effecting one parameter. I have been using the VT Bass DI with lower character settings than before like 12 oclock & usually more like 9 to 11 oclock. If you like V2 of the VT bass as I do or the original VT bass, I believe those tones are in there you just have to learn to compensate with the added functions & how they interact differently.
 
#72
I agree that the pedal with bite switch on makes it too bright/clanky. Wasn't the goal with these pedals to emulate ampeg amps? I own and have played a number of ampeg amps, B-15n, SVT, etc, and none of these have ever sounded this bright. I can make my b-15n sound somewhat similar but I need to turn on the bright switch and goose the treble a bit. I just don't understand what they were shooting for here with the character of this thing - with the bite button on it seems overhyped. The presence peak seems too high to match classic ampegs.
 
#73
If I love the Tone Hammer, and have been OK with the Programmable Bass Driver DI, what am I likely to think about the VTBass DI?

Most of what I do is direct.

I was able to get a pretty good sound without overwhelming sub harmonics with the PBDI.

The Tone Hammer with a "touch" of AGS (gain knob at about 8 0'clock) is great, and I also run it without the AGS sometimes, too.

Will the VTBass DI compare? As I read through these posts, it seems possible.
 
#74
Hard to say Randy, I've owned Bass Drivers before & always struggled with getting a good balance of mids with that one & I thought the lows were set too low of a frequency for me. The VT bass family of pedals have a higher low end frequency which I prefer, you might not if you're happy with lows on the PBDI. The speaker sim does widen the low end eq as part of its magic, I don't find it necessary but I could see it helping for some tones. The mids are a pretty wide higher end of the mid frequency range. The VT bass DI is a pretty versatile pedal with sensitive knobs as far as eq changes, a little goes a long way. I'm still learning & finding new settings I like which I'm saving in a notebook for future reference.
 
#75
I didn't really use all the low end that the PBDI is capable of. Never had the low EQ knob higher that about 1 o'clock, and I had plenty.

Not having ever used any of the VT products, a bigger concern, I guess, is that I can run with not too much dirt on the tone. I was able to control the dirt very nicely on the PBDI.

Gonna look around my area and see if I can find one to test drive. Other than that, though, I may just go ahead and order one. I do see they are in quite a demand, and not everyone has one in stock. And I don't see any used ones up for sale anywhere, so I guess most everyone is satisfied overall.
 
#77
For killer classic rock tone through an amp on a typical passive J bass set up...set amp flat..turn passive jazz all up except roll off the tone a bit ...add a little more drive (then the recommended "warm tube" setting)roll mids slightly off 12 oclock,, increase the low a little (past 12)and roll off the high a little (below 12) on EQ, " (knobs are super sensitive...a good thing) and you get a killer classic rock thing going on which is what this pedal really excels at....(bite and speaker sim "ON" definitely)....Thing is this is more of a rock and roll pedal than a more "modern voiced, Jazzier sounding preamp" ...in my humblest opinion, of course. But I think it rocks..love it.
 
#78
Tech 21 needs to start putting little numbered lines for the nobs on the character series pedals. I would like to be able to recreate tones more reliably without drawing imaginary lines on written notes to try & capture specific settings. The degree of change a slight bump of a nob makes in tone in tandem with minimal reference to where a nob is actually set makes recreating or sharing a favorite setting difficult. I might have to paint reference lines on mine once & for all, & ad Grolsch rubber washers underneath the nobs to impede their accidental movement.
 
#79
dorseylogan said:
Thing is this is more of a rock and roll pedal than a more "modern voiced, Jazzier sounding preamp" ...in my humblest opinion, of course. But I think it rocks..love it.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. It excels at the rock thing, but really has to be coaxed into the more warm and vintagey B15 vibe without every really getting there IMO. This is why I'm so disappointed in the Bite control. If it would just remove the presence peak without opening up the low end then it would be much more useful toward that end. I don't play grind rock and roll, and I don't like having to turn the treble knob way down below 9 o'clock to remove that grindy peak because that also takes away too much of the upper mids.
 

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