Technique revelation! For me, anyway...

[tbasstreble11]

This came to me after watching a couple of videos of bands, where I noticed the very polished bassists doing something that I initially thought merely looked good.

Both were playing finger style jazz/funk, and the thing they both did was rest the forearm of their plucking (playing/pickup/whatever) hand on the basses body so that their wrist sat way out from the strings. Their hand had to angle back toward the strings to reach them.

Because I thought it looked cool, I gave it a go. Prior to this I've always rested the joint of my wrist on the basses edge and sort of laid my fingers flat across the strings.

I was AMAZED at how functional this new wrist position is! I noticed immediate improvement in my playing speed, control, and TONE.

I toyed with it to push my wrist as far forward as was comfortable, and then pulled it back to what felt like a happy medium. I couldn't believe how much control I suddenly had over fills I was ten minutes earlier struggling to keep pace with.

I'm yet to expirement with different styles to see how far this position can be useful, but in 15 years on and off of playing I've never thought to adjust in this way.

I did get some soreness after a couple of hours in this new position but I'm sure it will simply be a matter of time training these muscles that haven't been used.

Anyone else had a similar experience or know of some simple adjustment that can improve your playing like this?

 

[ConnManX]

Sounds like a promising technique. I'm a new (1 year) bass player...I'll try this out.

 

[fearceol]

Sounds like a promising technique.

It depends on how heavily you lean the forearm on the body of the bass. If you lean too hard it can reduce blood flow to the hands and fingers. Besides, resting the forearm on the bass can result in the wrist being bent....not a good thing from a possible injury perspective.


If you want a "promising" technique, check out the "Floating Thumb".

 

[varcingetorige]

+1 for the video

As far as described and as much I understood this thing IMO it seems dangerous and leading towards a carpal tunnel problem... I personally don't like angle my wrist while playing.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Yes, I've heard/read of many players who ended up with wrist and hand issues from that.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Sounds like a promising technique. I'm a new (1 year) bass player...I'll try this out.

Don't, unless you're looking for a short and painful career.

If you continue watching videos, you'll also find tons of equally advanced players who keep their wrists open, not cocked, and play with just as much tone, speed and accuracy.

Many of those have never had any wrist pain. The rest started out the other way, and had to go through the long, frustrating process of unlearning bad habits after a few (or several) years. Why? In order to deal with the damage that they had done to their hands and wrists.

Don't take our word for it. Read up on Repetitive Strain Injuries (RSI's).

Cramped hands or wrists, forearms leaning on the edge of desks or guitar bodies, playing through pain, etc., lead to pressure on the nerve bundles, extra strain on tendons and muscles, and reduced blood flow. These are the triple threat that can eventually lead to RSI's or even osteoarthritis, forced rest, wrist braces and expensive reconstructive surgeries.

 

[Feral Feline]

Yup, what the OP described (without the benefit of a pic) seems like a direct ticket to carpal-tunnel syndrome.

In addition to Todd Johnson's vid already posted, I'll add some sound advice from Gary Willis:



Loads of good info on this topic just in the first few minutes of Willis' video.

You can keep your wrist straight, to keep the carpal tunnel open, but angle just the fingers down and keep your elbow up!

 

[tbasstreble11]

Hmm that's a pretty overwhelming response re: wrist injury.

I did notice some constriction/soreness of the joint but had assumed it was from not having used this position before.

Thanks for the concern, it's this kind of thing that makes Talkbass such an invaluable reference tool. I appreciate it!

 

[basshawk]

I don't know. I think it depends on the person and their physiology. I've been playing that way (forearm over bass body) for years (over 30) with no wrist problems. Do what's comfortable and effective for you. If you experience persistent pain, don't do it.

 

[tbasstreble11]

It depends on how heavily you lean the forearm on the body of the bass. If you lean too hard it can reduce blood flow to the hands and fingers. Besides, resting the forearm on the bass can result in the wrist being bent....not a good thing from a possible injury perspective.


If you want a "promising" technique, check out the "Floating Thumb".

Thanks a lot for that vid, that makes a lot of sense.

What he said about the differing range of motion from string to string rang true - that articulated the difficulty I was having with the fills I mentioned. There were a lot of descending triplets and it's those string transitions that were holding me up.

Before now I had anchored my thumb on the neck pup of my Jazz, the way he shows in the video.

I'm glad I posted about it, thanks for the advice! The difference in playability in the techniques I tried opened my mind to exploring these things, at least. I'll give the floating thumb a go, cheers.

 

[tbasstreble11]

I don't know. I think it depends on the person and their physiology. I've been playing that way (forearm over bass body) for years (over 30) with no wrist problems. Do what's comfortable and effective for you. If you experience persistent pain, don't do it.

Thanks for the input, I definitely pushed through some pain to keep my wrist angled and my fingers approaching from where I wanted.

I'll do a bit of researching on techniques, but I think as far as that one there was enough pain after a solid session to look elsewhere for now - not to mention the feedback here!

I hear ya though, a lot of people seem to do it. Even as I was exploring it I was conscious of keeping the pressure off my forearm by lifting from my shoulder, but I hadn't given much thought to the awkwardness of the angle or even the eventual soreness of my wrist.

The floating thumb certainly seems ergonomic, and I'll look into that and see what else is out there too. Cheers!

 

[spanndrew]

If you want a "promising" technique, check out the "Floating Thumb".

+1 on floating thumb. I forced myself to do this and it has honestly made more of a difference in my playing than anything else. It'll help if you decide to change number of strings also.

 

[RustyAxe]

Both were playing finger style jazz/funk, and the thing they both did was rest the forearm of their plucking (playing/pickup/whatever) hand on the basses body so that their wrist sat way out from the strings. Their hand had to angle back toward the strings to reach them.
...
I did get some soreness after a couple of hours in this new position but I'm sure it will simply be a matter of time training these muscles that haven't been used.

If you want to be playing when you reach my age (60) you'd better think twice about that technique. It's a setup for hand/wrist problems later in life.

(I hadn't read the rest of the replies before posting ... looks like I'm not alone, though)

 

[tbasstreble11]

Yup, what the OP described (without the benefit of a pic) seems like a direct ticket to carpal-tunnel syndrome.

In addition to Todd Johnson's vid already posted, I'll add some sound advice from Gary Willis:



Loads of good info on this topic just in the first few minutes of Willis' video.

You can keep your wrist straight, to keep the carpal tunnel open, but angle just the fingers down and keep your elbow up!

Thanks for the vid, that bloke is brilliant! When I get time I'll watch the whole thing (a few times). That whole bit about the muscles in your arm and how they work was great and something I've never given thought to. It kinda made me think I'd do well to go back to basics and learn from scratch - particularly that three fingered technique! Awesome! Thanks again.

 

[fearceol]

I don't know. I think it depends on the person and their physiology. I've been playing that way (forearm over bass body) for years (over 30) with no wrist problems. Do what's comfortable and effective for you. If you experience persistent pain, don't do it.

Yes, some people get away with playing with the wrist bent, but the majority do not. The problem with carpel tunnel and RSI is that it can take years for them to manifest themselves. So you dont experience any pain almost until the damage is done. Just because you dont experience any problems now, does not mean you never will. IMO it is not worth the gamble (at least...it's not one that I am prepared to take) and so it's better to err on the side of caution and practice safe technique from the start.

 

[basshawk]

I don't have the numbers to support or refute your statement, but I understand your point. Also know, though, that not everyone is built tha same. When I was in the military, I was supposed to salute with a straight hand. This was the proper way, hand straight, thumb against the forefinger. I couldn't do this. I could make a straight hand, but when I put my thumb against my forefinger, my hand cups. That's just how my hands are. I actually got points taken off (demerited) for this. Lol. Everything doesn't work for everyone, all the time. People need to use their best judgement based on all the available information. There may be some trial and error involved, too, but ultimately it's the best technique that works for the individual, IMO. Good luck to everyone looking for a better way.

 

[fearceol]

I don't have the numbers to support or refute your statement, but I understand your point. Also know, though, that not everyone is built tha same. When I was in the military, I was supposed to salute with a straight hand. This was the proper way, hand straight, thumb against the forefinger. I couldn't do this. I could make a straight hand, but when I put my thumb against my forefinger, my hand cups. That's just how my hands are. I actually got points taken off (demerited) for this. Lol. Everything doesn't work for everyone, all the time. People need to use their best judgement based on all the available information. There may be some trial and error involved, too, but ultimately it's the best technique that works for the individual, IMO. Good luck to everyone looking for a better way.

I also dont have any hard statistics to support my claim. I am going on the amount of people here on TB who have stated that if they had been aware of carpel tunnel and RSI and how to avoid them, it would have saved them a lot of pain and discomfort. I agree that certain techniques work for certain people and that everyone is different. However, "safe" technique works for all. With the likes of carpel tunnel, when the wrist is bent, the tendons are forced to go through the carpel tunnel at an angle, thus creating friction. It is this friction, continuing over many years, that causes the injury problems. Needless to say, this can happen to everyone and anyone. The only difference is the amount of time it takes people to notice the pain and discomfort.

 

[smeet]

Individuals are different, and many of the greats have used the bent/cramped wrist thing and have been OK. Then again, many of the greats died young, so who knows what might have happened eventually.

And yes, it does seem easier to get a strong fat tone using that non-ergonomic form. But with practice, I have been able to get pretty much the same tone and feel with floating thumb and a very light touch.
I switched to using floating thumb when I switched to a 6-string with very wide string spacing. I've kept it because I realize it feels better on my body. 15 years later, I still sometimes revert to the Marcus Miller style of bent wrist because it makes some technical things easier.

But I think the key is to not hold any unnatural posture (or any posture really) unchanged for too long. Our bodies like to be fluid, in motion. Bend your wrist, straighten it, pull with your arm or your fingers, shift your shoulders. I find that within reason, my body is the most comfortable when I am loose enough I continually move around in relation to the bass. I general, remain relaxed, but don't be too rigid about your relaxed posture either.

By the way OP, if you haven't heard Gary Willis actually play, look him up. He is a truly amazing player.

 

[fearceol]

But I think the key is to not hold any unnatural posture (or any posture really) unchanged for too long.

Yes I think this is indeed the key. For example Repetitive Strain Injury is just that...an injury sustained by repeating an action over a long period of time.

 

[Tupac]

Bad technique. You'll see guys like Marcus Miller do the 70 degree wrist bend for slow or melodic parts, but when they start playing hard the forearm straightens out to reduce the angle. You'll get away with this only if you have a soft attack.



Watch Flea's wrist and forearm when he plays fingerstyle sitting down. He's been hitting those strings hard as mess for 30 years now and still plucking, so obviously it's got some merit. Geddy Lee has similar positioning.