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Technique revelation! For me, anyway...

Individuals are different, and many of the greats have used the bent/cramped wrist thing and have been OK. Then again, many of the greats died young, so who knows what might have happened eventually.

And yes, it does seem easier to get a strong fat tone using that non-ergonomic form. But with practice, I have been able to get pretty much the same tone and feel with floating thumb and a very light touch.
I switched to using floating thumb when I switched to a 6-string with very wide string spacing. I've kept it because I realize it feels better on my body. 15 years later, I still sometimes revert to the Marcus Miller style of bent wrist because it makes some technical things easier.

But I think the key is to not hold any unnatural posture (or any posture really) unchanged for too long. Our bodies like to be fluid, in motion. Bend your wrist, straighten it, pull with your arm or your fingers, shift your shoulders. I find that within reason, my body is the most comfortable when I am loose enough I continually move around in relation to the bass. I general, remain relaxed, but don't be too rigid about your relaxed posture either. :)

By the way OP, if you haven't heard Gary Willis actually play, look him up. He is a truly amazing player.

I will check Mr Willis out, I loved what he had to say from a technical standpoint. Any bands he's played with that I'd know?

As for different peoples physiology - I've had a tinker with a couple things from these vids and realised a few things. When I started playing, my teacher said to pull my hand up to wherever was comfortable - no rules as to wrist shape, just what felt natural and comfortable. I think that can serve anyone's physiology quite well.

I agree with what you said about fixed positions. For that reason, and because it feels different, I've made a point of practising standing up. It's those sit-down stints of practising that my arm gets lazy and rests on the bass sometimes.

I think I've been unknowingly using the floating thumb technique for years without realising or analysing it. I tried to do it the way I understood that video but my fingers felt cramped, it felt as though I should be playing rather than muting with my thumb, a lot like my slap position. I think my natural inclination came from playing a five-string for years - I'd rest my thumb on the B to play the E and sometimes A but when playing the higher strings I'd move my thumb to rest on the E or A so my hand had the same shape.

Now I'm on a four-string I start with my thumb on the neck pup, in place of the missing B, and when I move up just rest on the E or A the same way. I just had a play and looked at my wrist and it stayed straight through these movements. I don't know if that's what floating thumb is, but it works for me to mute and maintain hand position.

With the bent wrist thing - I can see the value in it for technical parts, like you said, and I think it will be a handy tool to use sparingly.

As far as tone, what Gary Willis was saying about muting with the playing fingers seems like a technique worth investing some time in. Thanks for your thoughts!
 
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I don't have the numbers to support or refute your statement, but I understand your point. Also know, though, that not everyone is built tha same. When I was in the military, I was supposed to salute with a straight hand. This was the proper way, hand straight, thumb against the forefinger. I couldn't do this. I could make a straight hand, but when I put my thumb against my forefinger, my hand cups. That's just how my hands are. I actually got points taken off (demerited) for this. Lol. Everything doesn't work for everyone, all the time. People need to use their best judgement based on all the available information. There may be some trial and error involved, too, but ultimately it's the best technique that works for the individual, IMO. Good luck to everyone looking for a better way.

You reminded me of a couple of kids at Primary School that had double-jointed wrists - made me want to puke when they'd fold their hands flat against their forearms! If they ever played bass I reckon they'd be the masters of this technique :D
 
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I've gotten into the "hybrid" floating thumb as found via Scott's Bass Lessons because I discovered that I was sort of using that technique before I really had any idea what I was doing...and my hand never got comfortable with the Jaco-style 3rd & 4th finger string muting. If I decide to start adding those fingers to my playing, I may have to shift the technique, but for now it works fine.

As far as the wrist bend goes...as long as you're not bending it the the point of discomfort, and your wrist is still getting to relax and flex, and you're making effort to keep the hand and forearm muscles flexible via stretching...physiologically, for most people at least that should be a recipe for sustainable playing. There's lots of good points about carpal tunnel in here, and also a bit of alarmism (can't fault anyone for being cautious about such a destructive physical problem!), but if you take care of your muscles and joints when not playing, you'll have less risk of it down the road than you would clicking a mouse all day.
 
My viewpoint is informed by my father's career ending 10 years shorter than he intended because of osteoarthritis, and the number of pro's I've known who've wasted copious amounts of time and money dealing with unnecessary hand, arm and neck problems because of musically effective, but ergonomically incorrect technique.

Alarmist, maybe, but I'm pushing 60, and I've never lost a day's work because of hand trouble.

If I only had been as careful (and as well-trained) about the care and maintenance of my lower back, I'd probably still be using big cabs, instead of the compact, lightweight stuff I'm forced to use now...
 
Sorry, I guess that was pretty unclear.

I was contrasting the difference between the way I've looked after my hands over the years, and my counterproductive behaviour in other areas.

As a result of good ergonomic practice, I have no limitations in terms of my hands and arms after over 40 years of steady gigging.

On the other hand, my half-hearted approach to exercise and lower back fitness have left me with chronic pain, and keep me from enjoying the big amps and PA rigs that I used to fool around with back in the day.
 
Sorry, I guess that was pretty unclear.

I was contrasting the difference between the way I've looked after my hands over the years, and my counterproductive behaviour in other areas.

As a result of good ergonomic practice, I have no limitations in terms of my hands and arms after over 40 years of steady gigging.

On the other hand, my half-hearted approach to exercise and lower back fitness have left me with chronic pain, and keep me from enjoying the big amps and PA rigs that I used to fool around with back in the day.

Ah right, that makes sense. An amp tech I know told me, when I asked about the newer lightweight stuff, that it couldn't compete. He reckons you should feel bass as much as hear it, and the only way to do it is big heavy transformers and heavy, solid cabs. He's a full on Brit rock head that reckons bass should only ever be played when the kick drum does though, so I take it with a grain of salt. Interesting you say with a stronger back you mightn't have made the switch. Have you looked into yoga at all? There's plenty of remedial stuff out there.
 
.... An amp tech I know told me, when I asked about the newer lightweight stuff, that it couldn't compete. He reckons you should feel bass as much as hear it, and the only way to do it is big heavy transformers and heavy, solid cabs. He's a full on Brit rock head that reckons bass should only ever be played when the kick drum does though, so I take it with a grain of salt. Interesting you say with a stronger back you mightn't have made the switch. Have you looked into yoga at all? There's plenty of remedial stuff out there.
Your amp tech is way out of date on both bass cab and amp developments.

With well braced lightweight cabs and high excursion neo drivers you don't need cabs that you cannot lift to get excellent bass response. Class D amps can provide all the power you are likely to need with frequency responses that output transformers will never achieve.
 
Your amp tech is way out of date on both bass cab and amp developments.

With well braced lightweight cabs and high excursion neo drivers you don't need cabs that you cannot lift to get excellent bass response. Class D amps can provide all the power you are likely to need with frequency responses that output transformers will never achieve.

Haha no argument here mate. Any thoughts on the genz neox 212, while we're on the subject of neo cabs?
 
Don't, unless you're looking for a short and painful career.

If you continue watching videos, you'll also find tons of equally advanced players who keep their wrists open, not cocked, and play with just as much tone, speed and accuracy.

Many of those have never had any wrist pain. The rest started out the other way, and had to go through the long, frustrating process of unlearning bad habits after a few (or several) years. Why? In order to deal with the damage that they had done to their hands and wrists.

Don't take our word for it. Read up on Repetitive Strain Injuries (RSI's).

Cramped hands or wrists, forearms leaning on the edge of desks or guitar bodies, playing through pain, etc., lead to pressure on the nerve bundles, extra strain on tendons and muscles, and reduced blood flow. These are the triple threat that can eventually lead to RSI's or even osteoarthritis, forced rest, wrist braces and expensive reconstructive surgeries.
Yeah, I mentioned it to my teacher last week, and he didn't think it was a great idea, either. What I've been doing so far has been working fine.
 
+1 for the video

As far as described and as much I understood this thing IMO it seems dangerous and leading towards a carpal tunnel problem... I personally don't like angle my wrist while playing.

Been doing that for 25 years with no problems. The only time I even had tendonitis was due to sleeping with my wrists bent inwards at a much more acute angle.
 
Anyone else had a similar experience or know of some simple adjustment that can improve your playing like this?
I echo all recommendations related to keeping your hand in line with your forearm as much as you can, as bending your hand in an angle could give you trouble later. If you felt pain after doing it, your body is right on telling you to try some other alternative.

On the other hand, I believe you had an Eureka moment with this, which I think it was not related to the angle of your hand, but mostly to the fact that you anchored your whole arm against the instrument. This gave you (beyond the sound) a "locking" position that probably helped your brain/hands to triangulate distances/pressure/movement more efficiently.

Whereas some people rest their thumb on a pickup, or the top string, this would not be so efficient if you were to use the floating thumb technique (which is what I use BTW). If you look at the videos, you can always lock the position of your hand by letting the inner part of your forearm against the top wing of your bass. That way you can "float" around, keep your hand straight and also have an anchored point of reference to help your playing.
 
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I tried the floating thumb like Todd Johnson and Gary Willis teach, but I had problems with it. Specifically, to mute with my thumb flat on the strings, my wrist was actually bent backward slightly. You can see this in Todd Johnson's video. His wrist is bent just slightly backward while his thumb is flat on the strings.

For me, this created tension in the muscles in the top of my arm and I ended up with mild tendonitis. I am not saying that this will be a problem for everyone, just relaying my personal experience.

The technique that I've gone to now is what Adam Nitti calls Moveable Anchor. It's a different approach that works better for me, but is still better than the awkward (near) 90* bend that others use:


Regardless, I think the advice that Gary Willis gives to turn the amp up instead of digging in so hard on the bass is excellent. I find that my thumb floats as more of a reference point and mute rather than being an actual anchor for plucking the strings.

YMMV
 
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I play with a bent wrist often, but not always. I tend to change my right hand and wrist positions to access different tones. For consistency's sake, this may not be the best approach, but for avoiding repetitive stress I think it's helped me out. Try adjusting the hight of your right elbow and pay attention to how it affects the bend or "break" in your wrist. Combining this with different placements along the string, from the bridge all the way to the last few frets over the neck and with different angles of your fingers as you strike the strings, you get a whole wide range of tones and your muscles and tendons get a break from the same ol' same ol', which they need.
 
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