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Techniques for a More Efficient Fretting Hand?
- Thread starter Matthew_84
- Start date
Just replying so that I can easily find this thread later.... since I play much the same way as the OP.
There really aren’t a lot of universal rules. Look at video of Gary Willis and Anthony Jackson, two phenomenal players. Anthony’s fingers come about 8 inches off the fingerboard, while Gary’s hardly move. They both sound great and look relaxed. I can’t play like either of them (in skill or in form), bur I’ve learned so much from both. Look at different great players and imitate the ones that seem the closest to what feels natural to you. As you progress you’ll figure put the best way to relax and play well with your particular physiology.
What DreamandDream99 and SteveCS said.
It doesnt happen overnight but 10 min a day every day playing lines with a metronome in a focused manner will yield big results.
It doesnt happen overnight but 10 min a day every day playing lines with a metronome in a focused manner will yield big results.
That makes sense, and honestly may be part of the reason I never adopted this technique in the first place (amongst other things). In fact, my first teacher taught me this stuff in my first lesson and I remember it hurting my hands and feeling that it was unnecessary.
In Clef’s first video he posted of Steve Bailey, Steve did seem to have less buzzing and string noises when he kept some of his fingers planted, which makes sense, and is something I also struggle with.
I think a good place to start is to determine if it’s a timing sync issue between my two hands. I’m also going to try work on hovering my fingers closer to the strings. I will also try the other exercises of holding down multiple notes to see if it does make sense to me now. As mentioned, I didn’t like it when I was new to bass, but I haven’t given it much of a chance since. I suspect if I clear up the first two issues though, that may good enough, but I do want to take a week or two of trying all techniques.
If you know a bonafide bass teacher with the technique you want, go get a lesson. I had two major flaws with my playing and the pro saw both of them immediately.
Ironically, the idea with the fingers going down and staying down is to assist one another. It sounds like you may be using a bit too much pressure to fret notes and also you seem to infer you don't have the reach to use OFPF without using microshifts in low positions.
Even if you release pressure to make microshifts, IMHO under most circumstances when you are placing successive fingers on the same strings, all previously placed fingers should at least remain in contact with the strings and the basic shape of your hand should remain intact. Even when I lift my fingers off the strings, it's usually by a fraction of an inch.
OFPF works for me on long scale fretted bases, but can get a bit taxing with low positions on extra long sale basses. I don't play with all fingers flush against the fets, so OFPF would not work for me on a fretless instrument. I play Simandl fingering on string bass and could easily adapt this to fretless or an extra long scale bass as required. I find it easy to double on electric and string bass because the scale/length is so different.
I could never master doubling on electric and fretless. I have had a couple of really nice fretless basses but I could never get comfortable with the intonation. I am sure I could master it if I abandoned the fretted instrument for at least 6 months, but the longest I have ever gone is about 2 weeks.
Thanks @Wasnex. You raise a good point. I pretty much always play with my fingers flush against the frets and I tried to enforce that when holding down multiple fingers at once.
I don’t think my hands are as flexible as some other people (I often watch people put their hands in crazy positions to hit chords and other things that I can’t dream of doing); now maybe I just need to put a lot of practice doing this stuff to get them more comfortable, but in the meantime, the pain in my hands as I’m working on these is ultimately what has prevented me from doing it too much. It’s not so much the pain itself, but just the fact that there is pain makes me worried about the health of my hands in the future.
I don’t think my hands are as flexible as some other people (I often watch people put their hands in crazy positions to hit chords and other things that I can’t dream of doing); now maybe I just need to put a lot of practice doing this stuff to get them more comfortable, but in the meantime, the pain in my hands as I’m working on these is ultimately what has prevented me from doing it too much. It’s not so much the pain itself, but just the fact that there is pain makes me worried about the health of my hands in the future.
For what it is worth - my fretting hand has evolved over the years. One finger per fret was what I used at first. Next I found the fingers deciding which one would get the note. I let them.
Now days I find my middle finger doing most of the fretting and sliding where needed. Seems to work for me in what I play, which now days is only Praise.
Point of this post, I think we all evolve and I no longer beat myself up around the head and face if I leave OFPF.
Now days I find my middle finger doing most of the fretting and sliding where needed. Seems to work for me in what I play, which now days is only Praise.
Point of this post, I think we all evolve and I no longer beat myself up around the head and face if I leave OFPF.
It's not required for a fretted instrument and I only pay attention when it is a matter of tone...it makes a very small difference in the sound.
I believe the reach is a bit more on fretless. I suspect my hand is not quite large enough to use OFPF on a long scale fretless. I have noticed fretless is a lot harder on my hand than playing a fretted instrument.
I moved to string bass from viola in 7th or 8th grade and used Simandl fingering. I continued with Simandl fingering when I picked up electric bass. I didn't develop OFPF on electric until I was almost 30 years old.
On string bass most of my instructors taught me to pivot on my thumb for small interval changes outside of the box. Their rationale was this was faster. Ultimately I didn't find this to be true. I found it to place more stress on the hand and was also more difficult to maintain intonation. This seems conceptually similar to the idea of microshifts which some players use as a modified form of OFPF. To my surprise I have learned using microshifts develops a different series of preferred fingerings .
Eventually I developed a technique that used almost no thumb pressure/anchoring and maintained a very stable hand shape, although the spread of the fingers varies with position as required for proper intonation. The technique evolved after I started playing in the sitting position. I suspect the thumb is more involved if you play standing. In relation to electric...how well your instrument balances will effect you fretting technique.
SteveCS kind of started where I was going to go with this. I'm going to present it a little differently and draw a parallel between trumpet and bass. When I go to play fast on trumpet I have to have the correct buttons pushed down a nanosecond before I tongue the next note. It becomes a challege of mechanical timing/sync finess because the While I can more or less push and tongue at the same and get away with it at slower speed, if I try to do it that way going fast the "fronts" of the notes are weak and indistinct. So I have to have the buttons in place before articulating the note. It's the same with bass. Your left hand has to stay ever so slightly ahead of your right hand so you get a "ping" instead of a "woof". If you're descending on a given string and your fingers are free, say G,F,E on the 2nd string, put 1, 2 & 4 down and go to subsequent notes by lifting fingers in sequence rather than putting the fingers down one at a time. You can sometimes do that with cross strings. My string methods prof in college would take insist on doing that whenever possible, even going up the strings. He called it "KFD"... keep fingers down. While there is different mechanical need in string bass the concept can be partially used on bass guitar.
That's my take on it.
I agree. The mechanics of cleanly playing a fast descending line are greatly simplified if the fingers on your fretting hand are already in place. With this approach you only have to worry about when to lift each finger. If the fingers are not in place, you must coordinate lifting one finger while simultaneous placing the other finger.
Thanks guys! I’ve been way too busy with work and errands the last few days, but I should have time tomorrow to finally sit down and work on it for an hour or two. I’m looking forward to it and I appreciate all of the advice.
Actually I go the other way - stopping and plucking at the same time with only fingers that are playing notes actually touching the strings. I think it comes from playing the Stick, which is more akin to playing the keyboard where left and right hands are independent but perfectly synchronised. When I first started the Stick I found I would flub descending lines but not ascending ones. I worked out that this was because I had developed the habit on bass of keeping backwards fingers on the string which meant they were not ready, ie waiting above the string to tap the next note. I busked it for a while using pull-offs but found the tone/attack difference too unbearable. Now I stop and pluck at the same time, and I find that keeping other fingers on the string is less fluent. There is no clamping, and all fingers not involved in playing a note are ready to stop anywhere for the next note - up, down or across. Obviously this is not orthodox bass technique, but it is very liberating...
I can see where lifting the fingers is logical on stick or piano. As the note is sounded with the same finger striking the strings or pressing down the keys, lifting or releasing the "backwards" fingers is in fact required. I would think with stick you might lift the fingers completely off the strings, or lightly touch the strings for muting. When I played piano, my fingers would lightly touch the keys pretty much at at all times unless they were moving to another key...but I only learned very basic skills on piano.
With bass I believe there are circumstances where releasing the "backwards" fingers is certainly required, for example when you will use a finger to play a note on another string. With my more traditional technique, it's all one coordinated motion to release and then place the finger for the next note. There are also many circumstances where I believe lifting the fingers constitutes unnecessary and inefficient motion, for example if you play 1,2,4,4,2,1 on the same string...rationale is provide in the next paragraph
I do observe that your technique is well adapted to doubling on stick. I doubled on string bass which benefits from keeping the "backwards" fingers down because pressing down the strings requires a bit of strength. It's wise for the pinkie to do the job with the help of three stronger siblings. Said another way, that amount of pressure the pinkie has to exert to press the string to the finger board is greatly reduced if the index, middle, and ring finger are helping. Then you break the rule by playing vibrato...vibrato can really tire you're hand out.
Keeping my fingers on the strings is a way of knowing where I am on the instrument. In general I try to play without looking at my hands. If I don't touch the instrument and maintain the shape of my hand, I can't accurately hit notes or play in tune.
No doubt my technique would not work for you. Vive La Difference
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I agree with all of your suggestions except this one. I don't know where this idea came from -- I'm guessing from guitar -- but I think trying to follow this "rule" is a cause of awkward, strained hand positions for players who try to follow it. For most of us, unless you are playing way up the fretboard, it isn't physically possible to keep the thumb perpendicular to the neck and behind the fretting fingers without creating a severe bend in the wrist. Let the thumb point more toward the headstock, parallel to the neck, and the wrist is in a much more relaxed position. This video by Adam Neely, as described by @TheIndieKid, explains how and why:
I advise any of you to check out Neely’s vids on technique. There are some really important ideas to be taken away from what he says. I treat what he says as gospel, to be honest.
