Telecaster vs. Precision Bass

[chuck norriss]

Tight collection.

1951 to 1956 is the original Precision single coil, slab.
1957 saw the split P with contoured body introduced.
1968 the original single coil slab was reissued as the Telecaster.
1972 the pickup changed to the big humbucker at the neck.

I have a 51 reissue, a57 reissue, and a 72 Tele with a DarkStar replacing the humbucker.

They're all fairly different from each other, and all quite nice.

 

[chuck norriss]

Agreed on the mid-attack thing, really works well in a mix, especially with multiple guitars. My CS '55 has become my favorite 4 string, but the CIJ '51 is also a great sounding bass:

Bulletproof.

 

[Mastermold]

That's not what I'm assuming. I'm not making any assumptions at all. I'm stating facts that lead to an undeniable conclusion.

• Since the introduction of the split coil pickup, there has been no measurable demand for a single coil precision bass.

• Presented with the option of purchasing a single coil Pbass in the late 60's, virtually no one bought them. Following the discontinuing of single coil pickup production, players continued to ignore them.

• Only a tiny tiny fraction of noteworthy players over the last 50 years chose single coil Pbasses over the split coil model.

• The only market for single coil Pbasses today is the retro novelty market.


Based on this, the market has resoundingly rejected the single coil P-bass. Why? It's not cost, it's not looks. What else is there? Simple - the split coil is a better sounding pickup.

I tried to help but I'm not going to beat you up over this. Enjoy your tone.

 

[mckendrick]

That's not what I'm assuming. I'm not making any assumptions at all. I'm stating facts that lead to an undeniable conclusion.

• Since the introduction of the split coil pickup, there has been no measurable demand for a single coil precision bass.

• Presented with the option of purchasing a single coil Pbass in the late 60's, virtually no one bought them. Following the discontinuing of single coil pickup production, players continued to ignore them.

• Only a tiny tiny fraction of noteworthy players over the last 50 years chose single coil Pbasses over the split coil model.

• The only market for single coil Pbasses today is the retro novelty market.


Based on this, the market has resoundingly rejected the single coil P-bass. Why? It's not cost, it's not looks. What else is there? Simple - the split coil is a better sounding pickup.

Agree with most of that, but....

....I would conject that the retro market isn't the only market where the single coil P finds appeal. I don't play in no retro band, but I do use a single coil P with no little regularity. A minority usage, I agree - but not strictly retro. I'm not totally disagreeing that they do appeal to a retro market, just arguing that it isn't the only market where the bass has appeal.

I also disagree that the split coil is the better sounding bass. Though I'm not going to claim one sounds better than the other - and certainly the single coil can't compete on range and hz response - but in the ear of the beholder whether or not one sounds better than the other is simply and surely a matter of taste. That minority that has a taste for the single coil sound would certainly support this view.

 

[chuck norriss]

That's not what I'm assuming. I'm not making any assumptions at all. I'm stating facts that lead to an undeniable conclusion.

• Since the introduction of the split coil pickup, there has been no measurable demand for a single coil precision bass.

• Presented with the option of purchasing a single coil Pbass in the late 60's, virtually no one bought them. Following the discontinuing of single coil pickup production, players continued to ignore them.

• Only a tiny tiny fraction of noteworthy players over the last 50 years chose single coil Pbasses over the split coil model.

• The only market for single coil Pbasses today is the retro novelty market.


Based on this, the market has resoundingly rejected the single coil P-bass. Why? It's not cost, it's not looks. What else is there? Simple - the split coil is a better sounding pickup.

The split is a different sounding pickup. I don't deny its popularity; I just prefer the single coil.

 

[smcd]

I tried to help but I'm not going to beat you up over this. Enjoy your tone.

Help?? You can't "help" me when you don't understand the issue at hand.

 

[dedpool1052]

And not only that, but no one made a single coil P-bass for 25 years, and when they did, it was a novelty reissue. The market has spoken.

it cant be that much of a novelty, considering Lull, Sadowsky and Lakland all have a Single-coil P in their line-up.
the market has spoken

 

[smcd]

it cant be that much of a novelty, considering Lull, Sadowsky and Lakland all have a Single-coil P in their line-up.
the market has spoken

How many of those basses have sold? Take a wild guess.


Those are retro novelty instruments made by ultra low volume manufacturers. Those instruments are made to sell a very few instruments to a tiny tiny base that might want them. Complete novelty guitars.

 

[dedpool1052]

How many of those basses have sold? Take a wild guess.


Those are retro novelty instruments made by ultra low volume manufacturers. Those instruments are made to sell a very few instruments to a tiny tiny base that might want them. Complete novelty guitars.

i dont give a damn how many they sold, i was just giving you a hard time. i guess you took it seriously. strategically placed smilies and all.

 

[Scott549]

I have both single coil and split coil Precisions. I prefer the sound of the single coils. It is close, though. To simply declare that one is "better sounding" is not an accurate statement.

 

[vin*tone]

I have both single coil and split coil Precisions. I prefer the sound of the single coils. It is close, though. To simply declare that one is "better sounding" is not an accurate statement.

This. Absolutely.

If 2 instruments sound different, which is "best" is strictly a matter of personal preference.

 

[One Drop]

How many of those basses have sold? Take a wild guess.

Those are retro novelty instruments made by ultra low volume manufacturers. Those instruments are made to sell a very few instruments to a tiny tiny base that might want them. Complete novelty guitars.

You make so many assumptions and draw so many false conclusions it's not worth going over them point by point.

Saying something over and over still doesn't make it a fact, either.

 

[Mastermold]

Help?? You can't "help" me when you don't understand the issue at hand.

Dude. Preference claims lack truth value, meaning they cannot be true or false (they cannot be falsified or verified). The statement "Bass X has better tone than Bass Y" is a preference statement. Therefore it cannot be true or false. All you can say is you like the tone of one better than another, just like one ice cream flavor over another.

Further, your suggestion that market proves your point is logically flawed even if the subject of your argument was one that did have truth value. Circular reasoning, where the premise assumes the conclusion, is all you've done. It's an invalid form of argument, e.g., "Split coil basses sound better because more people buy them, and because more people buy them they must be better."

Hope that helps. (And if it doesn't, then off to college with you ...)

 

[Chef]

Naw man, *these* are complete novelty guitars.

Complete novelty guitars.

 

[Korladis]

Dude. Preference claims lack truth value, meaning they cannot be true or false (they cannot be falsified or verified). The statement "Bass X has better tone than Bass Y" is a preference statement. Therefore it cannot be true or false. All you can say is you like the tone of one better than another, just like one ice cream flavor over another.

Further, your suggestion that market proves your point is logically flawed even if the subject of your argument was one that did have truth value. Circular reasoning, where the premise assumes the conclusion, is all you've done. It's an invalid form of argument, e.g., "Split coil basses sound better because more people buy them, and because more people buy them they must be better."

Hope that helps. (And if it doesn't, then off to college with you ...)

Indeed. I'm sure that chocolate ice cream far outsells mocha almond fudge, and rocky road, but I like the latter flavors better.

Britney Spears outsells Gustav Holst, but I know which I like better.

 

[rust_preacher]

FWIW, I have two Tele basses with the humbucker (1974 and 1978), and a split-coil Precision (1974). I play "classic" era rock, and try to sound that way. My choices for this are the 1974 Tele and the P. Amplification is Aguilar.

The 1974 Tele came with quite thin roundwounds on it and it sounds much "zingier" than the 1978 with Pyramid Gold flats on it. The sound is very comparable to what I get out of the P with flats, and it is a joy to play - very comfortable, and a light attack is all that is needed.

The 1978 Tele sounds really like an upright, with the flats. The sound is very articulate, and you can hear the attack pluck very clearly.

And what was said about the Tele basses shining on upper frets - I completely agree - the sound up the neck is nowhere near "muddy". The lower frets, with the larger string excursion amplitude really can overload the magnetic flux of the humbucker, and with many amps the signal overloads the input stage. That's where the problems start. I respond by tightening the low E string pickup pole screw and use a compressor with my Tele basses to tame the attack a bit.

 

[mckendrick]

How many of those basses have sold? Take a wild guess.


Those are retro novelty instruments made by ultra low volume manufacturers. Those instruments are made to sell a very few instruments to a tiny tiny base that might want them. Complete novelty guitars.

Agree with most of that, but....

....I would conject that the retro market isn't the only market where the single coil P finds appeal. I don't play in no retro band, but I do use a single coil P with no little regularity. A minority usage, I agree - but not strictly retro. I'm not totally disagreeing that they do appeal to a retro market, just arguing that it isn't the only market where the bass has appeal.

I also disagree that the split coil is the better sounding bass. Though I'm not going to claim one sounds better than the other - and certainly the single coil can't compete on range and hz response - but in the ear of the beholder whether or not one sounds better than the other is simply and surely a matter of taste. That minority that has a taste for the single coil sound would certainly support this view.

Ergo: not novelty, but minority.

 

[smcd]

Dude. Preference claims lack truth value, meaning they cannot be true or false (they cannot be falsified or verified). The statement "Bass X has better tone than Bass Y" is a preference statement. Therefore it cannot be true or false. All you can say is you like the tone of one better than another, just like one ice cream flavor over another.

Further, your suggestion that market proves your point is logically flawed even if the subject of your argument was one that did have truth value. Circular reasoning, where the premise assumes the conclusion, is all you've done. It's an invalid form of argument, e.g., "Split coil basses sound better because more people buy them, and because more people buy them they must be better."

Hope that helps. (And if it doesn't, then off to college with you ...)

You make so many assumptions and draw so many false conclusions it's not worth going over them point by point.

Saying something over and over still doesn't make it a fact, either.

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn - "I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em...."


I don't think I can make it any simpler for you. But I'll try one last time...

Between 1957 and 2000 (that's 33 years), a sc Pbass design was offered for 2 years. 2 years. Out of 33 years. Out of all the bass companies out there during that time, Fender didn't offer an option. No one even made a clone. Why? Why do you think that is??

It's because the market spoke, no screamed, that the split coil was a better pickup.



Of course, I'm sure if Fender knew all you single coil die hards were out there, they'd have kept the scTelebass in their catalog. I mean, think of all the sales potential they missed!

 

[nukes_da_bass]

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn - "I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em...."

I don't think I can make it any simpler for you. But I'll try one last time...

Between 1957 and 2000 (that's 33 years), a sc Pbass design was offered for 2 years. 2 years. Out of 33 years. Out of all the bass companies out there during that time, Fender didn't offer an option. No one even made a clone. Why? Why do you think that is??

It's because the market spoke, no screamed, that the split coil was a better pickup.

Of course, I'm sure if Fender knew all you single coil die hards were out there, they'd have kept the scTelebass in their catalog. I mean, think of all the sales potential they missed!

Era...1957 to 2000 is 43 years lmao not 33...

 

[One Drop]

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn - "I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em...."


I don't think I can make it any simpler for you. But I'll try one last time...

Between 1957 and 2000 (that's 33 years), a sc Pbass design was offered for 2 years. 2 years. Out of 33 years. Out of all the bass companies out there during that time, Fender didn't offer an option. No one even made a clone. Why? Why do you think that is??

It's because the market spoke, no screamed, that the split coil was a better pickup.



Of course, I'm sure if Fender knew all you single coil die hards were out there, they'd have kept the scTelebass in their catalog. I mean, think of all the sales potential they missed!

I'm not a die hard, I couldn't give a **** who plays a split coil or a single coil PUP, and I don't care how many others do. It's you who refuses to understand what we are arguing- simply put, more popular= more popular, not more popular=best'. There is no best. There was no best. There will never be a best. At best, best only means what is best to a particular user in a particular situation, and that, too is subjective. Get over it, or keep arguing about 'best' like kids do at recess.

What's the best flavour of ice cream? What is the best bass for metal? Who is the best TBer? What is the best way to make you actually listen to what any of us are saying? You refuse to acknowledge anyone's arguments, you just keep repeating a logical fallacy. Again, repeating it over and over will not turn it into a fact, though you seem to think otherwise.

Oh, and your figures are wrong anyway. The SC tele bass was offered for 5 years, 1968-72. The Sting RI was sold in the US for many years, as were the Paisley and Blue Flower reissues, and so were various CS versions. Many small builders have been making versions for years, and after-market versions of the PUPs have been made available by various companies, and still are, for years. It's an inconvenient fact that you have tried to minimize by citing small sales, but you have no idea how many sell. I assume sales are good enough for these companies to feel the need to fill demand. None of this supports or refutes your argument about the superiority or lack thereof of the SC PUP, but it does illustrate your lack of intellectual rigour, and your lack of ability to distinguish fact from conjecture.

I'm not trying to convince you anything about what is better or worse, no one else here is either, in fact the opposite is true. Just trying to illustrate the futility of arguing the nebulous concept of 'best'.

BTW, I ain't no chickenhawk!