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Double Bass Tensing up...
- Thread starter SMarie
- Start date
Well, that's more of a technique question; you may wish to repost. This is the forum devoted to The instruments themselves. Good luck!
Matthew Tucker
Commercial User
- Aug 21, 2002
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- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
Hey lets go easy on the new member; he/she probably found the forum through a google search, only joined up yesterday and aren't aware of the other forums yet.
SMarie, welcome to Talkbass!
Have a look/search here first: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f5/ and then post your question in that forum if you can't find an answer!
SMarie, welcome to Talkbass!
Have a look/search here first: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f5/ and then post your question in that forum if you can't find an answer!
While no one actually said anything disparaging to the new member/OP, no one actually helped her with her question either. As a new member to THIS forum, but not new to forums in general, I have noticed a very strong tendency of this forum to expect military like discipline as to where things go, how they are said, etc. It's really no wonder that when you look at the double bass side of this forum it is not extremely active as far as forums go. I realize that its a somewhat limited field, but maybe if we were more helpful as a group instead of getting all worked up as to where threads should be started this would be a more visited area. I know that in this electronic setting, many people will say things that they would not way say to a persons face. And before you flame me, I do not believe this happened in this case, but it has happened before and this just gave me cause to think about it a little and to rant a little. The old Biblical addage of "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you" is something we should all keep in mind. I have been going back through the archives and reading older post to gain some insight into a completely new endeavor for me and am less likely to ask questions here as I do not want to be berated over what some people consider a stupid or frequently asked question. If you think the post is stupid (and most are not, only ignorant and there is a HUGE difference) then just don't respond. It's that simple. No need to be judgemental over someone elses lack of knowledge. Enough of my rant..
As to the original OP's question: I am a complete newbie to upright bass playing and have no basis to accurately answer your question but it does sound as if you are experiencing muscle tension due to How you are playing. An experienced instructor might be able to help you learn some techniques to help counter the tension.
As to the original OP's question: I am a complete newbie to upright bass playing and have no basis to accurately answer your question but it does sound as if you are experiencing muscle tension due to How you are playing. An experienced instructor might be able to help you learn some techniques to help counter the tension.
Matthew Tucker
Commercial User
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
MytBrednec I agree in principle you are right, though the forums are grouped the way they are to help people find stuff and help people get quick access to the material they are interested in.
In my case I am usually only concerned with Basses and Setup/Repair and only look at those forums, and I am not qualified to give a response to the OP, but this sort of thing is OFTEN discussed in the Technique forums. And many of the people who post in the Technique forum may not watch what goes on it the basses or setup forums. So redirecting them to the right place is actually the most helpful thing I can do.
No point trying to buy diesel fuel at a hairdresser salon.
In my case I am usually only concerned with Basses and Setup/Repair and only look at those forums, and I am not qualified to give a response to the OP, but this sort of thing is OFTEN discussed in the Technique forums. And many of the people who post in the Technique forum may not watch what goes on it the basses or setup forums. So redirecting them to the right place is actually the most helpful thing I can do.
No point trying to buy diesel fuel at a hairdresser salon.
No point trying to buy diesel fuel at a hairdresser salon.[/QUOTE]
Love this quote! And I agree that there are areas set up for different aspects of discussion, when I new person joins the group, people who read the post that have knowledge in that area might as well try to help as well as directing the newbie to the correct area for discussion. Too often it seems that all the original OP gets is that they are in the wrong part of the forum, and no matter how gently you say it, do we really want to send the message "you are in the wrong place?"
Personally I am pretty thick skinned and realize that the distance between PC screens makes some people braver with their words than they would be face to face and take it pretty much in stride. But I don't really think that the purpose of ANY forum is be so strict on rules as to make it an unwelcoming place for people to start a discussion. New people or old members either. Much better to have a happy front and be accomodating don't you think?
By the way SMarie!!! Welcome to the forum and hope you can find some people with more knowledge than me to help you out! In the month or so I have been on here the folks have been pretty helpful. There a few old stick in the mud types, but you run into them everywhere i guess!
Love this quote! And I agree that there are areas set up for different aspects of discussion, when I new person joins the group, people who read the post that have knowledge in that area might as well try to help as well as directing the newbie to the correct area for discussion. Too often it seems that all the original OP gets is that they are in the wrong part of the forum, and no matter how gently you say it, do we really want to send the message "you are in the wrong place?"
Personally I am pretty thick skinned and realize that the distance between PC screens makes some people braver with their words than they would be face to face and take it pretty much in stride. But I don't really think that the purpose of ANY forum is be so strict on rules as to make it an unwelcoming place for people to start a discussion. New people or old members either. Much better to have a happy front and be accomodating don't you think?
By the way SMarie!!! Welcome to the forum and hope you can find some people with more knowledge than me to help you out! In the month or so I have been on here the folks have been pretty helpful. There a few old stick in the mud types, but you run into them everywhere i guess!
Seems to me you're off base (bass
) here. I don't think there's any general negative vibe keeping people away. More helpful? Wow. Maybe it's because you're relatively new here that you just don't realize how generally helpful and caring people here are in general. No one here got "worked up" at all. No one here was hiding behind a keyboard while being uncivil. As Matthew pointed out and as I did, directing someone to the forum dedicated to the subject area of the question is a way to get that person an answer as quickly as possible.It was the mods who posted the admonition about only posting about basses in the basses forum. I happen to agree that folks should take the time to place their posts in the desired place. It helps all of us to have our questions answered effectively, to be able to find answers via a search, and to maintain a useful archive that's not scattered. I try to help answer newbie questions quite often. When they are posted in the basses forum and really would be best posted elsewhere, I usually send a message to the mods. It happens quite often. I was actually serious that, given the number of such posts, it would be helpful if the title the mods posted was in bold. That would likely draw people's attention and have them post in the location that's best for everyone.
Personally, I really don't think it's too much to ask of a newbie to peruse the titles of the forums and to take a look at the stickies before posting. I think it's the considerate thing to do. I know I do it when I visit a new internet forum. Not doing it, and just throwing a post wherever, tends to convey, to me anyway, a lack of regard for how a forum has been set up and organized. That doesn't excuse bad behavior, inappropriate snarky comments, or willful attempts to make anyone feel unwelcome. Please consider, however, that it's a two-way street. There's responsibility on both sides.
Now, I hope that somehow we can get back on track.
- Oct 12, 2004
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A friendly and helpful method to address a newbie's question is to:
1) Welcome him/her to the forum.
2) Briefly answer the question.
3) Politely let him know that the area for technique is in this other little corner of the forum.
4) Thank him/her for contributing with the interesting question.
It doesn't cost anything to be nice and welcoming to someone new. It doesn't cost anything to be polite and supportive of each other. The outside world can be an icky and combative place. We come in here to share and enjoy all things doublebass. When in doubt, be nice.
1) Welcome him/her to the forum.
2) Briefly answer the question.
3) Politely let him know that the area for technique is in this other little corner of the forum.
4) Thank him/her for contributing with the interesting question.
It doesn't cost anything to be nice and welcoming to someone new. It doesn't cost anything to be polite and supportive of each other. The outside world can be an icky and combative place. We come in here to share and enjoy all things doublebass. When in doubt, be nice.
Mr Swan! Very nicely said! concise and to the point and exactly the point I was originally trying to make. A very good possibility that I was too verbose (something my wife will agree too most always).
And maybe I could have chosen a few words better as well. Instead of saying be more helpful, maybe I should have said be more polite. I notice that we have not heard from the original OP and we have run completely off topic for them anyway, but the first 2 responses they got did not bother to even try to answer their questions. Would that give you a warm and fuzzy feeling if you were that person?
I did read lots of stuff before making my first post. My first post was concerning the size of the American Standard base and what is an appropriately sized case. One of the first responses I got was "you need to read through the archives". It was not laziness or disrespect on my part, it was the fact that I had already done that and not found an answer that adequately gave me the information I was looking for.
Since that time I have read almost every post in the categories that I believe will help me get started. I haven't read much about orchestral technique as I am a country and bluegrass kind of guy. In my opinion too many of the posts start with a statement like "I hope I am asking this in the right place, or Sorry if this isn't where this belongs". I believe this sets a tone (pun intended) for the forum that people are wary of asking questions because of how questions have been answered in other posts. This shows that they ARE reading older posts and have seen the things I am refering to as well.
I have received some excellent help from members of the DB forum so this is not directed at the entire forum persay, just little things that I have noticed since starting to visit here daily. Sometimes a new set of eyes and ears will notice things that other more long term users will have adjusted to gradually. I believe this is an excellent forum and intend to visit regularly even if my bass playing does not come along very well. I am definitely not trying to step on anyones toes and am enjoying the gentleness of wording in this debate.
Like Mr Swan says "when in doubt, Be Nice"
Shawn
And maybe I could have chosen a few words better as well. Instead of saying be more helpful, maybe I should have said be more polite. I notice that we have not heard from the original OP and we have run completely off topic for them anyway, but the first 2 responses they got did not bother to even try to answer their questions. Would that give you a warm and fuzzy feeling if you were that person?
I did read lots of stuff before making my first post. My first post was concerning the size of the American Standard base and what is an appropriately sized case. One of the first responses I got was "you need to read through the archives". It was not laziness or disrespect on my part, it was the fact that I had already done that and not found an answer that adequately gave me the information I was looking for.
Since that time I have read almost every post in the categories that I believe will help me get started. I haven't read much about orchestral technique as I am a country and bluegrass kind of guy. In my opinion too many of the posts start with a statement like "I hope I am asking this in the right place, or Sorry if this isn't where this belongs". I believe this sets a tone (pun intended) for the forum that people are wary of asking questions because of how questions have been answered in other posts. This shows that they ARE reading older posts and have seen the things I am refering to as well.
I have received some excellent help from members of the DB forum so this is not directed at the entire forum persay, just little things that I have noticed since starting to visit here daily. Sometimes a new set of eyes and ears will notice things that other more long term users will have adjusted to gradually. I believe this is an excellent forum and intend to visit regularly even if my bass playing does not come along very well. I am definitely not trying to step on anyones toes and am enjoying the gentleness of wording in this debate.
Like Mr Swan says "when in doubt, Be Nice"
Shawn
You know, there is a lot of truth about the warm welcoming, but you know, if you look at it in other light, it might be as well arrogance or simply forgetting of the OP not to check the forum he is in. Some do it by mistake, some expect to be served as soon as they come here no matter what they did wrong. I believe that these forums are organized and visible well enough to find the exact section for questions I want to ask.
First two replies are very calm in my eyes and I don't see any hostility there. So I think that the poster should check the forum he is in. With the 'oh new guy, answer anyways' attitude, there would be no discipline and system here at all, sections are here for a reason. It is the least to expect of a visitor on this forum to simply post things where they are supposed to be, it is a common etiquette. And asking that has nothing to do with being welcoming or helpful. Keeping things nice in place makes everyone happier!
My 2c
First two replies are very calm in my eyes and I don't see any hostility there. So I think that the poster should check the forum he is in. With the 'oh new guy, answer anyways' attitude, there would be no discipline and system here at all, sections are here for a reason. It is the least to expect of a visitor on this forum to simply post things where they are supposed to be, it is a common etiquette. And asking that has nothing to do with being welcoming or helpful. Keeping things nice in place makes everyone happier!
My 2c
Bravo, Brunot! Thank you for recognizing that it cuts both ways. Thank you for recognizing the advantages of preserving the categorization that's been set up here. I think MytBrednec applies a less-than-charitable view of the first two responses. I would never have posted mine as an immediate reply to the OP. It should be read following Jason's, exactly where it was placed and it was a comment to the forum, in general.
Yes, but in my case, I generally like to leave the technique inquiries to those who have more expertise than I do and who are far more qualified to answer them. It's not that I didn't "bother." My usual M.O. is to "bother" very much when it comes to answering newbie questions. The OP didn't "bother" to apply the etiquette about which Brunot speaks. Yes, indeed, we should go out of our way to welcome newbies. Had my post been directed to the OP, rather than to the forum in general, I'd like to think I would have done that. Jason already had "bothered" to take the time to direct the OP to the forum where he/she could get the best response(s).
Another negative interpretation that, IMO, is unjustified. People who try to ensure that they're in the right place are not necessarily doing so because they have seen how other questions are answered. Often, I believe, they are doing so because they are considerate people who recognize that they may not yet understand the organization of things. They are demonstrating the etiquette that Brunot mentioned. It does not mean at all that they have read older posts and that they view the interchanges as being negative.
MytBrednec, you're entitled to your opinion and I regret that your perception of what goes on here is that those who post in these forums are generally less than welcoming or overly concerned with the "rules." I just don't see it that way at all and I base my opinion on eight years of active participation here. In any case, we agree with regard to the philosophy that we should make new members feel welcome. It's all the more easy when those same people aren't members of the ranks who want their questions answered immediately, without expending any effort to help themselves, and without even looking at the stickies that have been put in place to help them.
It's not always easy or appropriate to follow Steve Swan's four-point approach, especially when the question is something like, "Hey, what's the best bass to buy?"
...Meanwhile, a member of barely 48 hours might leave the fold due to typical internet bickering over TB rules and internet etiquette...this discussion on TB regs and common decency should have gone to A) A new off topic thread or B) Private Messages.
Hi SMarie! Welcome to TB!!
Although I don't play double bass, what I've found to be helpful on electric is to warm up on scales slowly and get progressively faster, or create a scale-like exercise that's very similar to the passage that's giving me trouble...again, working through it slowly and then getting progessively faster as it works its way into muscle memory. I think tensing up during fast passages sometimes comes from you thinking too hard about up; when it slowly becomes second nature, the body loosens up a little more. IMO of course.
Can't help you with the double-jointed pinky, as I don't have one to relate.
Hi SMarie! Welcome to TB!!
Although I don't play double bass, what I've found to be helpful on electric is to warm up on scales slowly and get progressively faster, or create a scale-like exercise that's very similar to the passage that's giving me trouble...again, working through it slowly and then getting progessively faster as it works its way into muscle memory. I think tensing up during fast passages sometimes comes from you thinking too hard about up; when it slowly becomes second nature, the body loosens up a little more. IMO of course.
Can't help you with the double-jointed pinky, as I don't have one to relate.
To the question: I've been away from DB for some time but, in general this problem can be attributed to simply trying too hard to execute something you aren't truly able to execute. So you exert yourself, in order to 'push through' your technique.
The solution is to take those passages you have trouble with and SLOW them way down. Play them very slowly, until you have no trouble with them, then increase the speed little by little.
The solution is to take those passages you have trouble with and SLOW them way down. Play them very slowly, until you have no trouble with them, then increase the speed little by little.
I sure don't see the discussion above as bickering. Now, as for answering the OP's question, the problem he/she is having may, in fact, be specific to the double-bass. The perception of "tensing up" of the left hand may be fatigue produced by not forming the proper left-hand "claw." That, in turn, could be related to playing a DB with a thin neck profile. It may be the result of not having the left elbow where it should be. It may also be related to the factors identified by johndough247 and dmusic148.
All of this is best evaluated by a teacher. SMarie, do you have a teacher? How long have you been playing? Please fill out your profile. It likely will help us to help you. Helpful and welcoming PM sent.
All of this is best evaluated by a teacher. SMarie, do you have a teacher? How long have you been playing? Please fill out your profile. It likely will help us to help you. Helpful and welcoming PM sent.
Seems to me you're off base (bass
It was the mods who posted the admonition about only posting about basses in the basses forum. I happen to agree that folks should take the time to place their posts in the desired place. It helps all of us to have our questions answered effectively, to be able to find answers via a search, and to maintain a useful archive that's not scattered. I try to help answer newbie questions quite often. When they are posted in the basses forum and really would be best posted elsewhere, I usually send a message to the mods. It happens quite often. I was actually serious that, given the number of such posts, it would be helpful if the title the mods posted was in bold. That would likely draw people's attention and have them post in the location that's best for everyone.
Personally, I really don't think it's too much to ask of a newbie to peruse the titles of the forums and to take a look at the stickies before posting. I think it's the considerate thing to do. I know I do it when I visit a new internet forum. Not doing it, and just throwing a post wherever, tends to convey, to me anyway, a lack of regard for how a forum has been set up and organized. That doesn't excuse bad behavior, inappropriate snarky comments, or willful attempts to make anyone feel unwelcome. Please consider, however, that it's a two-way street. There's responsibility on both sides.
Now, I hope that somehow we can get back on track.
+1 Tensing up can be simply mind over matter, so to speak. Whenever I feel myself tensing, I consciously think "relax" and guess what, I relax. Eventually relaxation will become your style of playing and the tensing issue will fade away. Try it!
+1 Absolutely, Eric.
I have actually looked over at my left hand and said (under my breath), Okay, calm down.
While we absolutely do try to keep topics in the correct forums, it's mainly so that information will be easier to find. In the future if everyone will please file a post report on a misplaced post (simply "wrong forum" on the post report will suffice; some people also add where they think it might better fit, which can be useful), I'll move it to the correct one, or as near as I can figure out. Usually, when somebody comes in and finds a redirect to another forum where their post used to be, it gets the message across without a lot of unpleasantness.
Moved to orchestral technique for now; if it needs to be moved to "jazz technique", please let me know.
Moved to orchestral technique for now; if it needs to be moved to "jazz technique", please let me know.
To the point, I had a BIG problem with tensing my whole body, mainly the left hand. My teacher suggested this: Don't overthink it. I know it is hard to keep track of all the thing you need to look for, but let the music flow for a while. I must say that he is right indeed.
I try to keep myself relaxed at all times, challenging as it is, it helps the playing a lot. If I feel any sign of tensing, I stop playing for a while, relax my body and start again. I even put a little glasses mark in my scriptures on the parts during which I noticed I get uncomfortable because of some aspect of it, be it a hard fingering or a long shift so I remind myself that I need to stay relaxed. This really helped my technique and my shifts are way much better at the moment. It is a normal defensive reaction of the body when there is something dangerous or challenging coming, for these situations, a hard passage or a demanding piece. It will still take me some time to find the right balance between enjoying the playing and watching my playing though!
I try to keep myself relaxed at all times, challenging as it is, it helps the playing a lot. If I feel any sign of tensing, I stop playing for a while, relax my body and start again. I even put a little glasses mark in my scriptures on the parts during which I noticed I get uncomfortable because of some aspect of it, be it a hard fingering or a long shift so I remind myself that I need to stay relaxed. This really helped my technique and my shifts are way much better at the moment. It is a normal defensive reaction of the body when there is something dangerous or challenging coming, for these situations, a hard passage or a demanding piece. It will still take me some time to find the right balance between enjoying the playing and watching my playing though!
