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Terrible HUM

how about this? Can I test the pickups directly and bypass the preamp to see if I have hum? And if so, how would be the best way. I'm not opposed to unsoldering, but this bass is a few weeks old and under warranty so I don't want to do too much too it without clearing it w/ Rob Green of Status first so I don't void any possible warranty.
 
I'll check to see if Rob objects to me doing just that and then I'll give it a shot.
Ewimsatt you are a lifesaver. Just knowing what it might be takes out a ton of stress. Thanks again and I'll check back in to tell you what I discovered.

Derrick
 
how about this? Can I test the pickups directly and bypass the preamp to see if I have hum? And if so, how would be the best way. I'm not opposed to unsoldering, but this bass is a few weeks old and under warranty so I don't want to do too much too it without clearing it w/ Rob Green of Status first so I don't void any possible warranty.

Did you say the pickups were active? That may be a problem it depends on what is recommended for mixing two active pickups...in other words if you can wire them together directly to the jack without harm.

Since the hum doesn't change when you touch the strings or ground, check it for single coil hum. The way you do this is to move the bass around into all kinds of orientations and if you can find one where the hum goes away you have a humbucker problem! Could be a miswired coil or a shorted coil or something like that. Wiring the pickups to the jack directly one at a time as suggested above also tests for this. But it's easy to try to null the hum with bass orientation first before you start to wire things just for more information.
 
I have not heard back from Rob today, so I still have not changed any of the soldering.

I can say this though, as I listen more closely, all of the tone circuits do manipulate the noise somewhat. The treble makes the most noticeable changes. Also, the noise appears to be getting worse. With the volume on full, I'm starting to hear something similar to a feedback squelch. It used to be just hum, but it's evolving and gaining more of a saw tooth type of buzz to it.

I changed the batteries again last night with a fresh pair and found no change.
 
Batteries are new and I've also multimetered them and they read right around 9v each. I haven't heard back from Rob Green of Status yet asking him if I can remove pickups or anything yet. Since the bass is just a few weeks old I don't want to mess with anything that will possibly void my warranty with out Rob's permission first.

Mongo2, Funkytown, USA must be in NY cause that's where I'm from :)
Bass4worship, love that Geko!
 
As far as moving the pickups around, I find that the noise lessens (but does not go away) when I'm perpendicular to the amp's face.

Try other (unplayable) orientations to see how far you can get the noise down. I know my amp tends to pump out single coil hum if I'm close. Try moving away. In my neighborhood there is some super noise source (I suspect an industrial welder of some kind) that creates a huge buzz in instruments from time to time. I've never been able to track it down as it comes and goes.

Strong Radio stations (especially TV stations) can create an RF buzz that can get into active basses cause huge hum. Listen carefully for voices or music in the noise. Wiring a pickup directly to the jack and having noise go away could be an indication of this.

Keep after it!
 
I've moved all over the place and this level of hum is unacceptable. It's crazy loud and none of my other basses do it. They are all dead quiet. As soon as I hear back from Rob, I'm gonna take this sucker apart and do some testing :)
 
Thanks for the advice. Lots of things are pointing to the preamp. I suspect it may be based on the fact that the eq and pan controls alter the nature of the noise. I hope Rob sends me a new one to swap out.

It's an amazing bass, just disappointing to deal with things not functioning properly. All will be well once it's fixed.
 
Ground loops are a myth in guitars. There is only one path to ground which is the jack.

You would need another path to ground to have a loop


LOL, exactly. You can have a ground loop if you have a ground wire connect to a volume pot and a tone pot that are also electrically connected via the control plate. In most humbucker's it is not a biggy but with single coils this is a source of hum that is not canceled but instead introduced into the signal of the pickup.


BTW: Hope the new preamp board fixes your problem.
 
Quick Update:
Rob made and sent me a new set of pickups. I installed them and the noise was much louder. Rob said he made the new pickups hotter than the originals, so that made sense.
I told Rob that the new pickups didn't solve the problem, so he is sending me a new preamp! That's what I call great customer service!

I'll update again once I put in the new preamp. I'll be sending him back the old parts so he can do an inspection on them and keep improving his products :)

He's a great guy as well.
 
LOL, exactly. You can have a ground loop if you have a ground wire connect to a volume pot and a tone pot that are also electrically connected via the control plate. In most humbucker's it is not a biggy but with single coils this is a source of hum that is not canceled but instead introduced into the signal of the pickup.


BTW: Hope the new preamp board fixes your problem.

In short, no. This is simply not an issue inside of a bass guitar.

There is only one ground (for all intents and purposes) inside of a bass. It is the same ground as that used by the amp being connected to, since the bass receives its ground through the shield of the cable. There is one (and only one) path to earth ground which happens through the cable and the amp (or any other device you connect to, like a DI, preamp, etc). Thus the ground loop problems that plague users of outboard gear (requiring isolations boxes, etc) just aren't an issue here.

I completely agree that the situation you describe can happen if someone were to solder wires from pot case to pot case: there would be multiple return paths to the local ground. I have no problem with that statement. However this is NOT "a source of hum that is not canceled but instead introduced into the signal of the pickup" and here is why:

In order for there to be amplification of a voltage, it must be in a position to modulate the active signal path in a way that will be picked up and amplified by whatever you're using to amplify the signal of the pickup. The situation described (having multiple paths for local ground) involve tiny fractions of an ohm difference in return paths to local ground. In addition, EMI coming in from the outside can only cause tiny changes in voltage due to Ohm's law (small fractions of an ohm with micro-amps of current = tiny voltage). There just isn't anything of consequence that can make it to the active signal to be picked up by the amp in this case. I would argue that induced EMI/noise through the bass's wiring (leading from the pickups to the output jack) accounts for only a tiny portion of the noise in the bass in general, which is why many manufacturers don't bother shielding control areas (aside from the cost reasons). Shielding the pickup cavities (where 99.9999% of the wire resides) would be the highest margin improvement, however for hobbyists you might as well do the whole thing, right?

If so, why do single coil pickups hum anyways? If you were to unwind a pickup, you'd find many feet of wire: in fact, in order to get 7k DC resistance from 40 gauge coated wire at 1ohm per foot, you'd need thousands of feet (7 thousand)! At these resistances, small noise currents end up being large voltages that can be amplified to audible levels. Viewed in this way, the foot or so of wiring leading from the pickup to the output jack makes up only a small percentage of the total wiring available to 'see' the noise. I bet this is why so many jazz bass users are disappointed after doing meticulous cavity shielding jobs. :crying: I would hazard to guess that 99.9999% of the time people who shield their basses end up improving marginal ground connections which account for much of the improvements experienced.

In short, having multiple extremely low resistance paths to a local ground in the presence of tiny induced noise currents is not an issue inside of a bass. Having solid ground connections however is of paramount importance, however they end up being physically wired (through a pot case to a control plate, through a 'star ground', etc).
 
You can have a ground loop if you have a ground wire connect to a volume pot and a tone pot that are also electrically connected via the control plate.

No you can't because they both connect to only a single ground source... the output jack. One ground, no loop.

You should always have a ground wire connected to each pot even if they are on a metal control plate. if the mechanical connection between the pt and plate gets corroded or the nut is lose, you lose your ground connection.

Multiple ground paths in basses or guitars do not cause ground loops.

[EDIT] MglMatador, I didn't see your post when I wrote mine! Very good explanation.