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...that funky feeling

#21
Originally posted by Bill Brasky
So are you saying you should never play off the center of the beat? Or if you do then you're either rushing or dragging?
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Not necessarily - but I meant that if you are trying to pin down what makes something "funky" then it is more to do with what Jim was describing, than what you were talking about.

Of course you can play ahead or behing the beat in any type of music and I hear a lot of this in Jazz, but this isn't what makes music "funky" - a lot of Jazz is decidedly "un-funky" but still relaxed about time!

What I was trying to emphasise was that people who say - oh you just feel it, are more likely to end up being "sloppy" rather than "Funky! and that the best funk rhythm sections are really tight and together - to my view, the only way you can do this, is by having a very precise idea of what subdivisions of the bar are being played!

So the question was : "How do you practice if you want to play funky? " - my view is that it is better to get on top of the sort of things that Jim was talking about and only once you have mastered this, should you start worrying about playing ahead or behind the beat.

So like in Jamiroquai, who were mentioned, the bass and drums are locking in very tightly and it is the 16th notes syncopations which are making it funky.
 
#22
IT"S THE FEELING!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T WRITE DOWN NOTES TO THE FUNK!!!! IT'S THE FEELING!!!! IT"S NOT COMPLICATED. IF YOU CAN FIND SOME EARLY BOOTSY'S RUBBER BAND, SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST "AHH THE NAME IS BOOTSY BABY", CHECK OUT THE TITLE CUT. THE BASS LINE IS VERY SIMPLE, BUT IT'S A VERY FUNKY JAM.
 
#24
Originally posted by RHYTHMSCHISM
IT"S THE FEELING!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T WRITE DOWN NOTES TO THE FUNK!!!! IT'S THE FEELING!!!!


Uh, sorry, but you CAN "write down the notes to the funk". It happens all the time, and there's nothing AT ALL wrong with reading funk lines from notation. As with any music, you still have to interpret what you're reading, but the only reason I could think of why reading funk lines would be useless would be if you were "reading" from TABZ, in which case what you are "reading" will be every bit as useless for funk as it would be for any other style of music.

IT"S NOT COMPLICATED.

Well, that depends on whose style you're trying to cop, and how precise you want to be. It can be very complicated in some cases.


IF YOU CAN FIND SOME EARLY BOOTSY'S RUBBER BAND, SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST "AHH THE NAME IS BOOTSY BABY", CHECK OUT THE TITLE CUT. THE BASS LINE IS VERY SIMPLE, BUT IT'S A VERY FUNKY JAM.
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Bootsy is one of many fine examples that could be cited as starting points. Why are you shouting?
 
#25
Amen!

...Funk is a feel; I would definitely say "Some have it": They pick up an ax, play, & it's funky.

Others(like me) BS'd for years by copping stuff off records.
Eventually, I made a decision to break it down to the component level...that approach worked for me.

Chris(as usual)hits the nail on das head-
A player still has to interpret what's written on the page; the black dots are a language that represent a sound...the 'best' are able to pull life outta those benign symbols.
 
#27
Originally posted by beermonkey


Glory B, the funk's on me!

(I don't know why that other cat was shouting man, perhaps he's mis-placed his caps lock key)
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I think he was trying to prove the point I was making just before :

"What I was trying to emphasise was that people who say - oh you just feel it, are more likely to end up being "sloppy" rather than "Funky!"

I think in the end, the epoint is that those who do really "feel" it, certainly don't need our help and aren't coming along to TB for advice - but this discussion is about giving practical advice to those who obviously don't feel it yet! So to say "just feel it" is worse than useless and is probably by definition ; sloppy advice! :D
 
#28
To Chris: calm down dude!! You seem to take my reply to this thread personal, to the point where you purposely slam my handle. Not good. My point was that if a person can play, then they can get funky. This has nothing to do with reading music, because either you can or you can't. In any event you're not going to take a damn book up on stage are you? That's why I said it's the feeling. And to the person that said playing by the feel tends to lead to sloppiness NOT!! To the contrary, feeling what you play is essential. Of course assuming that you can play at all!!! Thank you.OK BYE, BYE OK BYE!!!
 
#29
Originally posted by rhythmrod
To Chris: calm down dude!!

You were the one who was shouting, not me. :)

You seem to take my reply to this thread personal, to the point where you purposely slam my handle.
Not good.

Morphing handles is a game around here, and has nothing to do with taking anything personally. Since I see that you don't care for the game, I'll be sure not to play it with you. No harm intended.

My point was that if a person can play, then they can get funky. This has nothing to do with reading music, because either you can or you can't.

And my point is still that this is a ridiculous statement. No one pops out of the womb with chops. They have to be earned through practice and hard work. Some people are more talented than others, yes...but that doesn't mean that those who are less talented can't learn. Funk is no different than any other style of music in this regard. From wherever you are, whatever talent level you are born/raised with, you CAN improve, and you CAN learn. Empirical evidence supports this statement. There is no empirical eveidence to support the statement, "IT"S THE FEELING!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T WRITE DOWN NOTES TO THE FUNK!!!! ". That was my point.

In any event you're not going to take a damn book up on stage are you? That's why I said it's the feeling.


Hello? I get called upon to play funk lines on reading gigs on a regular basis, and so do many other professional players. Duh...:rolleyes:

Is it preferable to rehearse for gigs like this? Sure. Would it be better if everyone in the band was raised steeped in the tradition of every single piece of music that the band plays, and then just played from memory? Yes. But we don't live in Utopia, we live on Earth. People read funk charts every day, and with the right people, it works just fine.

You think all of the horn players on heavily arranged funk records can't read funk lines and funk horn blasts from paper and still make it funky? Newsflash: they can, and do.


And to the person that said playing by the feel tends to lead to sloppiness NOT!! To the contrary, feeling what you play is essential. Of course assuming that you can play at all!!! Thank you.OK BYE, BYE OK BYE!!!
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Ok. Bye! :)
 
#30
One can be taught the notation to funky bass lines, yes! One can be taught timing to funky bass line notation, yes! And if one does reading gigs, then I guess one can get on stage with ones books and play the funky bass lines using the funky timing that one has been taught. And I guess that would possibly satisfy the requirements of funk 101. However, my earlier reply to this thread made some assumptions that I probably should not have made. Naturally, attempting to play a different style is a learning process, I assumed we all knew this. My point is that, along with the analytical process of learning to play a funkier style of music, one must FEEL IT!!!! I don't do reading gigs. My band has five members, and when we hit the stage, we JAM!! We move, we groove, we funk the whole joint up!!! If you're in a band then you should be knowledgable of what you are playing, and not have to read. Sure you can read and play some funky notation, but that in and of itself does not make it funky. OK BYE, BYE, OK BYE!!! PEACE
 
#32
Originally posted by rhythmrod
If you're in a band then you should be knowledgable of what you are playing, and not have to read. Sure you can read and play some funky notation, but that in and of itself does not make it funky. OK BYE, BYE, OK BYE!!! PEACE
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I'll agree funk needs to be felt - I don't think this is in dispute. As far as "you should... not have to read", I think this is a big generalization. It depends on the kind of band you're in. If you're in a band where the bandleader hands out charts, then you have to be knowledgeable of what you're playing, and you DO have to read.

You can feel the funk all you want. If you don't know the notes, it gonna sound the wrong kinda funky.

OK GREAT, YEAH OK, BYE BYE!!! (sorry, the temptation was too great ;))
 
#33
You are absolutely correct. That's what I've been saying! You have to know what the notes are and how to play them. There is no dispute about that. And if you're in a band that has to read, well, that's fine too. So if the originator of this thread is in a band that has sheet music to play, that's great, however, if they are, or plan to be in a band that hits the stage ready to get busy, then you have to read it, know it, and you damn well better feel it. OK BYE, BYE, OK BYE, PEACE!!!!
 
#34
Originally posted by rhythmrod
One can be taught the notation to funky bass lines, yes! One can be taught timing to funky bass line notation, yes! And if one does reading gigs, then I guess one can get on stage with ones books and play the funky bass lines using the funky timing that one has been taught. And I guess that would possibly satisfy the requirements of funk 101.

Right. One can also be a decent funk player who is reading a new chart by the ink and interpreting what kind of feel should go with the ink at the same time. One of the moderators of this very forum - Pacman - does this very thing for a living. Check out his sound clips sometime. He can jam, and he can read. He can also read and jam at the same time. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

However, my earlier reply to this thread made some assumptions that I probably should not have made. Naturally, attempting to play a different style is a learning process, I assumed we all knew this. My point is that, along with the analytical process of learning to play a funkier style of music, one must FEEL IT!!!! I don't do reading gigs. My band has five members, and when we hit the stage, we JAM!! We move, we groove, we funk the whole joint up!!! If you're in a band then you should be knowledgable of what you are playing, and not have to read. Sure you can read and play some funky notation, but that in and of itself does not make it funky. OK BYE, BYE, OK BYE!!! PEACE
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Ok, bye!
 
#36
Originally posted by DUURL
One can also be a decent funk player who is reading a new chart by the ink and interpreting what kind of feel should go with the ink at the same time. One of the moderators of this very forum - Pacman - does this very thing for a living. Check out his sound clips sometime. He can jam, and he can read. He can also read and jam at the same time. The two things are not mutually exclusive.


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Awww... go on :D Thanks for the vote of confidence. But what you're saying is right on, and I think brings to light the importance of not just reading music, but reading music well. If your feel suffers when you read, you're not good enough yet. When I tell people I read music, I mean that I read it well enough to make it sound like I'm not reading.

Anything less would be uncivilized.
 

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