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The 2008 Stanley Cup Playoff Thread

#721
Fo' Shizzle said:
He's the best young player in the league.

He's the best player of his generation.

He's playing in the Stanley Cup Finals.

His league is looking for a savior.

He may be that savior.

What part of this are you struggling with?

As for NBC's "homo points", are you sure you're not feeling a little conflicted? Seems like an awfully strong reaction to the broadcast coverage of a hockey game.......... anything you want to share with the group?;)
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1. No he's not... he's close and he may be one of, but he's certainly not "the" one...

2. Absolutely certainly not... again, he may end up being one of...

3. Yes he is, though for two games pretty hopelessly, yet we endure endless specials and snippets of one guy...

4 & 5. The league is barking up the wrong tree, and has been for quite a while. The saviour experiment should've been deemed useless about 5 saviours ago, but it won't be while Bettman is there because he has no other ideas.

as far as the "homo" comments, well, maybe a little angry, but I'm sick of slow motion, darkened rink, pretty boy camera shots too... bloody, toothless, grimaces of shear pain, determination and exhaustion maybe a little nearer to what hockey is all about, but that's my opinion. Metrosexualizing ice hockey as if Crosby could be hockey's Beckham, Jeter etc... is a weak idea.
 
#722
This is the new NHL fella's, it isn't going away.

David Stern did the exact same thing to the NBA back in the 90's. Anyone remember the "Bad Boys" of the NBA? I know the Detroit guys do, but beyond that, I doubt many people do. Stern started the whole concept of a savior or "face" of his league with MJ. Ever since MJ left, he has been trying to replace him. It ruined the NBA for me. I barely pay attention anymore. The only reason I know who is playing right now is because I listen to sports radio all day long.

But back to hockey......I haven't been an NHL fan long enough to have the promotion of the young stars bother me. I guess I am used to it from the other three big sports doing it for the last decade or so. But I can totally relate to you longtime NHL fans. I feel your pain.

-Mike
 
#723
the new NHL is not new anymore. And no one is criticizing any player or trying to pick on one player. It's the ignorance of the league to ignore the hockey fan and appreciate who could be actually accepted as the face, or faces of hockey, that is so testing to me. Hockey fans are not ignorant, they know they're game.

The league is trying to force a face so that the casual fan becomes more of a fan, maybe like MJ5150. That won't work in large numbers. It's like forcing David Wright on the baseball community as a whole, and the casual fan coming out and declaring that David Wright is the greatest young player in the league, the best player of his generation and a possible saviour of the game. As much respect as Wright and others have gotten in their young careers, baseball fans would scoff at this.

Please realize I'm debating and I do understand that DW, talent wise is not what Crosby is to hockey, but hopefully you understand my clumsy analogy.
 
#724
marcray said:
Hockey fans are not ignorant, they know they're game.

Please realize I'm debating and I do understand that DW, talent wise is not what Crosby is to hockey, but hopefully you understand my clumsy analogy.
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There is your problem.....the NHL wants more than hockey fans like you and the other guys in this thread. They want young people and their money to be fans. People with far less knowledge of the game than even I have. They want people who are casual fans to come to game and buy jerseys. You see the trend here, don't you? $$$$$$$ is the name of the game. It sickens me as well my friend. But this is how it is now.

What is going to sell the NHL? Pretty faces. Holmstrom playing tough in front of the goal isn't. Young kids gliding across the ice will sell tickets. Seeing Adam Hall with a broken nose won't. Young kids on every commercial will sell jerseys. Seeing a guy with a missing tooth after taking a puck to the face for his team isn't.

Yes, I am following your reasoning. Good example to bring up.

-Mike
 
#725
yeah, but it's not... if it was working we would see results. Crosby is not the 1st. Pretty faces have not and will not sell hockey. Yes Holmstrom does sell hockey, he's been a large cog in one of the most succssful hockey franchises in the history of the sport, so did Gordie Howe, so did Stevie Y. None of them sold hockey by being pretty. Messier, Lemieux, Richard, Bossy, The Hulls, I could go on forever. None sold hockey by being pretty and it sold and very well.

Now, I'm not old school, I know very little of that time, but hockey is physical and that's what people bought it for. Action. Not faces (except with scars).
 
#726
MJ5150 said:
There is your problem.....the NHL wants more than hockey fans like you and the other guys in this thread. They want young people and their money to be fans. People with far less knowledge of the game than even I have. They want people who are casual fans to come to game and buy jerseys.
Click to expand...
I would say the minor league team here lost a great % of their base (a very loyal, rabid bunch) when they began really, really, really catering to the 'casual' fan. I finally cracked & gave up 2 years ago. 1989 thru 2005? I missed maybe 15 games total (& maybe 10 of those were because my dad was home on his death bed).


What is going to sell the NHL? Pretty faces. Holmstrom playing tough in front of the goal isn't. Young kids gliding across the ice will sell tickets. Seeing Adam Hall with a broken nose won't. Young kids on every commercial will sell jerseys. Seeing a guy with a missing tooth after taking a puck to the face for his team isn't.
Click to expand...
I dunno...there's a reason why cage fighting is popular.


On a tangent-
Something I have noticed over my years of attending games...has anyone else noticed that there's a large number of 'big boned' girls attending hockey games?
 
#727
Well guys, I'm headed back to Michigan here in a few minutes, so I won't be around much to post on here for a little while. You kids play nice, now. :)

Any Detroit area TB'ers going to Joe Vision tomorrow night? Tickets are $5, so a couple buddies and I are going to that. I've never been to it, but I guess they show the game on the scoreboard, and pipe in Paul Woods/Ken Kal for the play-by-play. Should be some fun.

Enjoy the games, everybody!
 
#728
MJ5150 said:
There is your problem.....the NHL wants more than hockey fans like you and the other guys in this thread. They want young people and their money to be fans. People with far less knowledge of the game than even I have. They want people who are casual fans to come to game and buy jerseys. You see the trend here, don't you? $$$$$$$ is the name of the game. It sickens me as well my friend. But this is how it is now.

What is going to sell the NHL? Pretty faces. Holmstrom playing tough in front of the goal isn't. Young kids gliding across the ice will sell tickets. Seeing Adam Hall with a broken nose won't. Young kids on every commercial will sell jerseys. Seeing a guy with a missing tooth after taking a puck to the face for his team isn't.

Yes, I am following your reasoning. Good example to bring up.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I'm sure you realize this, but your reasons in bold are why I watch hockey, especially the first one. Any player willing to put up with the punishment and cause havoc in front of the net deserves my attention. Knuble and Hartnell of the Flyers are two great examples of this.

I personally like the revised rules post lockout. The reasons Crosby gets guff from me are reasons I've outlined before. I think they are worth repeating.

Crosby is a diver.

Crosby is a whiner; especially when his team isn't winning.

Crosby allows the opposition under his skin which is a liability to his team. Of course that means that the opposition is doing their job and more power to them.

I want to emphasize that he is a skilled player, but he has a lot of growing up to do.

Old video but this left a bad taste in my mouth concerning Crosby.

 
#729
warwick.hoy said:
I want to emphasize that he is a skilled player, but he has a lot of growing up to do.
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He is still very young (in years & maybe mentally?)...that said, I am a little surprised he is wearing the "C" for the Pens. I guess I'm a bit old skool in that regard-
IMO, guys like Rod Langway, Dave Poulin, etc were leaders...sometimes, the best "C" is not necessarily the "best" player on the team.
 
#730
warwick.hoy said:
I personally like the revised rules post lockout. The reasons Crosby gets guff from me are reasons I've outlined before. I think they are worth repeating.
Click to expand...

I also like the post-Lockout changes...eliminating the 2-line offside pass has really opened the ice & paid off for guys like Crosby. Life may have been tougher on him if he was playing under the old rules(?).
 
#731
warwick.hoy said:
I'm sure you realize this, but your reasons in bold are why I watch hockey....

I want to emphasize that he is a skilled player, but he has a lot of growing up to do...
Click to expand...

I think you guys who are disagreeing with me are missing one of the points I am trying to make...the current NHL marketing scheme is not directed at guys like you. You're already a fan, you would watch high school hockey to get your fix if you had to. You'll drive two or three hours to catch a big game if you could.

I believe the league is targeting people who are not really hockey fans right now. People just a little bit behind me. Had I not been from Pittsburgh, chances are I wouldn't really care about hockey. We have no NHL team in my town. Apart from about 20-30,000 people in this region who follow the local WHL team, hockey is an afterthought. We had a GREAT minor league team in Tacoma years ago, very successful. 12-15,000 for every home game. They moved out of town. They brought in another team, and it left as well. People here just do not care.

It looks to me like the NHL is going after the casual fan, and those who really aren't fans right now. To get those people, they are going to have to promote the pretty faces like Crosby. My neighbor doesn't really like hockey, but he agreed to come over and watch game two with the RW's. All he talked about was Crosby, Datsyuk, and Malkin. The finer points of the game that we appreciate meant zilcho to him. He wasn't all that impressed with the gritty play of Lidstrom, Holmstrom, and Gonchar or Roberts. He may eventually get to that point as I have, but not right now. He got interested in the NHL because of Mario, Gretzky, Crosby, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Malkin, etc.

Yes....I agree 100% with your comment on Sid. He's got a ways to go to become the complete package. But give the guy a break, he is only 20 years old. He didn't come out and say "I am the next Gretzky". People have been drooling over him for years.

-Mike
 
#732
Mike, I believe all of us understand the point. We also understand what the NHL is trying to do in snaring the casual fan, however, what we all understand, being more than casual fans, is that the NHL is doing it wrong. They are doing a great job getting Canadians and Pitts fans to buy Crosby jerseys etc, can't deny that, but they are not pulling in the casual fan. Simply put, ratings proves this.

Right now hockey is only surviving because of it's core fanbase, and now these people are being alienated and annoyed by the league, and by it's hopeless marketing campaigns.

I have as much interest in pulling in more and more NHL fans as possible, I don't know how, but I do know that Bettman doesn't get it, and I don't believe he ever will. VS Network is not the answer, I know that.

I'm glad you're in though!!!
 
#734
According to ESPN, Holmstrom is a game time decision. If he is out, I hope Therrien does the right thing and leaves Gill out of the lineup too. He shouldn't be on the ice either if he hurt someone else to the point that they can not play.

marcray....I agree with you about this marketing plan not being the most effective. It would turn me off like Stern did to me in the NBA. I have not seen all of the TV numbers for the season, but these Cup finals have the highest ratings in six years. I worry that too many of the core fanbase like yourself will be casualties as the NHL pulls in new fans with these crazy marketing schemes. I think back to the days when I arranged my schedule around NBA games and the Finals. Now, I don't care if I see a single game.

You are also 100% correct about the Finals not needing to be on VS. That is a joke.

-Mike
 
#736
MJ5150 said:
marcray....I agree with you about this marketing plan not being the most effective. It would turn me off like Stern did to me in the NBA. I have not seen all of the TV numbers for the season, but these Cup finals have the highest ratings in six years. I worry that too many of the core fanbase like yourself will be casualties as the NHL pulls in new fans with these crazy marketing schemes. I think back to the days when I arranged my schedule around NBA games and the Finals. Now, I don't care if I see a single game.

You are also 100% correct about the Finals not needing to be on VS. That is a joke.

-Mike
Click to expand...

This week, it has indeed been spun as a ratings "surge" in the US... but read a little more. Right now, Canada's viewership is down, probably for the obvious reason of the wussyship of the league, not to mention a lack of a Canadian Team... but in the US, the Stanley Cup finals got a 1.8 Million viewership for game 3? Last years WNBA Finals, game 3, got 1.5 Million viewers.

Let's cut the BS. The WNBA, in the US, is creeping up in viewership on the Stanley Cup Finals. In New York, home of many possible casual hockey fans, this past week, Ice Hockey on a national network was beaten by a WNBA game.

That is bad news, and is a clear view on the state of affairs at the NHL.
 

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