Nah, I'm familiar with him...just funny that some here were talking about Malkin taking a dip...and I happened to catch some of Cherry's comments on ESPN this morning.
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The 2008 Stanley Cup Playoff Thread
- Thread starter hippiesandwich
- Start date
Nah, I'm familiar with him...just funny that some here were talking about Malkin taking a dip...and I happened to catch some of Cherry's comments on ESPN this morning.
Missed game 4 due to having to chaperone my choir trip 
What I've seen in highlights, the "kill" was a tour de force of defensive play An analogy with the assault by Lt. Richard Winters on D-Day on the guns that is now a textbook example of infantry tactics at West Point comes to mind, it was that good.
Crosby not giving credit for good play and trying to start it up with Zetterberg - I chalk it up to a 1st overall draft pick getting outplayed by a 210th overall pick. As much as I don't like Crosby's whining and diving (it hasn't been AS bad this year), in fairness, the kid has a HUGE amount of weight on his shoulders being pegged as the face of the new NHL. Plus, as captain, he NEEDS to try to keep his team fired up.
To the poster who questioned Crosby wearing the C at a young age - the same thing happened with Steve Yzerman years ago. If the franchise is making a long term commitment to a player they see as a leader for years, it can happen. It then falls to the guys with the A on their shoulder to help out and groom the young guy. One thing you can say about the Detroit roster - there are a LOT of guys in that locker room who could wear the A in another locker room.
My superintendent stopped by this morning and said Game 4 was the best game he'd seen in about 20 years and called Wings in 5, as has the Pens fan wood shop teacher who was starting things last week
Regarding the Slava Kozlov discussion - I think he played well for the Wings in the playoffs, but ever since the '95 Finals when Scott Stevens leveled him with one of the greatest open ice hits in NHL history, he heard footsteps. I believe he was on Atlanta's roster last season.
Re: Fedorov getting tough, scroll back a few pages, I related the story of how Fetisov told him to grow a pair.
Re: Konstantinov - the Vladinator was a very good physical d-man. I guess that's why I still wear his jersey 15 years after I bought it. The thoughts of a Kronwall-Konstantinov tandem playing seek and destroy with opposing players is... quite amusing. He had a Norris trophy runner up, and was on the all-rookie team with Lidstrom. A huge tragedy indeed.
What I've seen in highlights, the "kill" was a tour de force of defensive play An analogy with the assault by Lt. Richard Winters on D-Day on the guns that is now a textbook example of infantry tactics at West Point comes to mind, it was that good.Crosby not giving credit for good play and trying to start it up with Zetterberg - I chalk it up to a 1st overall draft pick getting outplayed by a 210th overall pick. As much as I don't like Crosby's whining and diving (it hasn't been AS bad this year), in fairness, the kid has a HUGE amount of weight on his shoulders being pegged as the face of the new NHL. Plus, as captain, he NEEDS to try to keep his team fired up.
To the poster who questioned Crosby wearing the C at a young age - the same thing happened with Steve Yzerman years ago. If the franchise is making a long term commitment to a player they see as a leader for years, it can happen. It then falls to the guys with the A on their shoulder to help out and groom the young guy. One thing you can say about the Detroit roster - there are a LOT of guys in that locker room who could wear the A in another locker room.
My superintendent stopped by this morning and said Game 4 was the best game he'd seen in about 20 years and called Wings in 5, as has the Pens fan wood shop teacher who was starting things last week
Regarding the Slava Kozlov discussion - I think he played well for the Wings in the playoffs, but ever since the '95 Finals when Scott Stevens leveled him with one of the greatest open ice hits in NHL history, he heard footsteps. I believe he was on Atlanta's roster last season.
Re: Fedorov getting tough, scroll back a few pages, I related the story of how Fetisov told him to grow a pair.
Re: Konstantinov - the Vladinator was a very good physical d-man. I guess that's why I still wear his jersey 15 years after I bought it. The thoughts of a Kronwall-Konstantinov tandem playing seek and destroy with opposing players is... quite amusing. He had a Norris trophy runner up, and was on the all-rookie team with Lidstrom. A huge tragedy indeed.
OK, you guys who dislike, or even hate Crosby really need to give it a rest. I think we all get the point you dislike/hate him, and it does not validate your opinion to keep repeating it.
I'm really not sure why you come out and question his maturity. The guy is 20 years old!!! I'm sure I'm a little partial to the guy since he plays for the team I love. Even if he played for another team, I'd cut the kid a break. I don't know how much better any of us would handle the tremendous amount of pressure he deals with day in and day out. He is skating with guys old enough to be his dad. Of course he lacks some maturity at this point in his career. When you were 20, you did too.
Yes, it is obvious he is being outplayed in this series. It sure isn't helping that Malkin is having some issues at the most inopportune time. I'm not going to blame it on that though. The RW's are a tremendous team, who are going about these wins with surgical precision. Game four was a perfect example. Even though we went up 1-0, I at no point in that game felt like we were going to win. It seemed like Detroit was just waiting to go in for the kill. After they killed off the 5-on-3, and Hank skated around the Pens zone despite down by two men, the Pens did not deserve to win that game. I think the TO by Terrien was a big mistake, and was probably only done because of the youth/inexperience of the team.
That being said, three wins in a best of seven gets you nothing. They need to win another before I'll give up on the Pens. Maybe we can steal one tonight and make the series interesting. GO PENS!!
-Mike
I'm really not sure why you come out and question his maturity. The guy is 20 years old!!! I'm sure I'm a little partial to the guy since he plays for the team I love. Even if he played for another team, I'd cut the kid a break. I don't know how much better any of us would handle the tremendous amount of pressure he deals with day in and day out. He is skating with guys old enough to be his dad. Of course he lacks some maturity at this point in his career. When you were 20, you did too.
Yes, it is obvious he is being outplayed in this series. It sure isn't helping that Malkin is having some issues at the most inopportune time. I'm not going to blame it on that though. The RW's are a tremendous team, who are going about these wins with surgical precision. Game four was a perfect example. Even though we went up 1-0, I at no point in that game felt like we were going to win. It seemed like Detroit was just waiting to go in for the kill. After they killed off the 5-on-3, and Hank skated around the Pens zone despite down by two men, the Pens did not deserve to win that game. I think the TO by Terrien was a big mistake, and was probably only done because of the youth/inexperience of the team.
That being said, three wins in a best of seven gets you nothing. They need to win another before I'll give up on the Pens. Maybe we can steal one tonight and make the series interesting. GO PENS!!
-Mike
I believe I'm giving Sid some credit in my previous post
And my later reference to Yzerman in that same post should be taken as thinly veiled praise 
Hey, I'm all for physical play and guys getting banged around on the ice. No need to break out the dresses here.
The play by Gill was lame. I'm new to hockey, but I could plainly see he did something that could really hurt a guy. In my personal opnion, if a player knowingly injures another player to the point that the guy can not play, the player who caused the injury should sit as long as the guy he injured is out. I know it will never play out that way, but it is how I feel. If I was coaching the Pens, Gill would have sat out Saturday night and tonight if Holmstrom is still not able to play.
-Mike
Hey, I'm all for physical play and guys getting banged around on the ice. No need to break out the dresses here.
The play by Gill was lame. I'm new to hockey, but I could plainly see he did something that could really hurt a guy. In my personal opnion, if a player knowingly injures another player to the point that the guy can not play, the player who caused the injury should sit as long as the guy he injured is out. I know it will never play out that way, but it is how I feel. If I was coaching the Pens, Gill would have sat out Saturday night and tonight if Holmstrom is still not able to play.
-Mike
Mike, your sentiment is completely appreciated - honor and integrity are things I respect. However, you're in the minority (right along side of me). But... in the pro sports world, it won't happen where there is such a price put on winning. If a coach would actually do that, I'd be shocked. Though I'd have sat Gill instead of Letang to get Sydor back in the lineup, but that was before the game 3 incident with Homer.
Also, I agree that Therrien's calling the TO was a mistake, as it gave the Wings PK a much needed rest. Game 5 is going to be a barnburner. And, I've gotta ask, what are your thoughts on the kid who got the octopus, then changed clothes and came in with his extra ticket? I think it's hysterical. (But then I've launched octopi in several arenas).
Not from the Bob Clarke songbook.
If you can't beat them in the alley, you can't beat them on the ice.
I would agree with you IF the league reviewed the 'hit' & determined it was out of line. Then, yeah, a suspension = the amount of time missed by the injured player seems right.
Not from the Bob Clarke songbook.
If you can't beat them in the alley, you can't beat them on the ice.
I would agree with you IF the league reviewed the 'hit' & determined it was out of line. Then, yeah, a suspension = the amount of time missed by the injured player seems right.
I agree with the suspension = amount of time missed by the injured player. However, in cases where there's an extremely cheap hit and the "victim" doesn't miss time due to luck/good fortune, then the offender would go unpunished. I'd amend the idea to say X games OR time the victim is out, whichever is longer. To this day, I'm ashamed that Todd Bertuzzi had the opportunity to don the winged wheel.
No. He is a penguin and he is my enemy.
Dude, if I still had soda in my mouth I'd have sprayed my monitor
No. He is a penguin and he is my enemy.
Understood. I don't have any enemies in the NHL yet, but I sure feel that way about some NFL teams.
I am guessing the Flyers would be our main enemies, for now they will be mine. It's going to be hard to hate a team like the RW's since they are so good and have a player I really like. Since the Pens have been so bad recently, I doubt we have any enemies at the moment. If we keep playing well, I'm sure a few outside of Philly will develop.
But I have another question about strategy......what is dump and chase? Is that when you "dump" the puck at the opponents blue line so it goes down by their goal, and then go "chase" it into the corners? Does the team you are playing dictate that style, or do teams adopt a style on their own and stick with it?
Like the Pens in this series.....they seem to skate up to the RW's blue line and then shoot the puck down by the goal or into a corner. No one really skates over the blue line with the puck and a couple guys around him. I am guessing this strategy has been implemented since the RW defense is jacking anyone with the puck at their blue line? I don't remember seeing a lot of it in the Rangers and Flyers series. Do you think Therrien has gone with this approach because of how Detroit has dictated the game to them, or has he tried this method for another reason?
-Mike
What a tremendous overstatement. What happened to him sucks, but don't make a good player into a legend because of it.
Christ, he wasn't even the best defenseman on his team, let alone the best player in the world.
As a relatively new hockey fan, it's understandable, but like you are with the NFL, you'll have teams to hate quite soon.
A logical choice, though historically, Flyers fans that I've known haven't really worried about the Pens, but have been far more bitter towards the Rangers and other foes from their old division back in the days of the Prince of Wales Conference. Your comment about having a hard time hating a team like the Wings and why is a testament to you being a fan of hockey first
*salutes*. If we ever meet, I'm buying your first round.You are correct with your definition of dump and chase. It's usually done when a team has superior speed and is confident that they can outskate the opposition's d-men to recover the puck. A team like this year's RW is a "puck-possession" team - it's all about entering the zone on the fly with speed and establishing presence that way.
As far as your second question about the style dictated by the opponent or does a team adopt and stick with it, that's a "YES". From what I've seen, teams will adopt a particular style of play that theoretically best suits their players. Ideally, if they win the battles (face-offs for puck possession teams, the board fights for dump and chase) they need to in order to run their game, THEY set the play. Sometimes the opponent doesn't allow that to happen. The Wings ouster by the Oilers a couple of seasons ago is a prime example. The Wings were built as a puck-possession team and either couldn't or wouldn't switch to a dump-and-chase mode of entering the zone when the Oilers' trap was keeping them from gaining the zone with speed or from making their crisp tape-to-tape passes. This refusal to adapt set the stage for the Oilers to counterattack on the forced mistakes of the Red Wings and win the series. Hope that wasn't too long winded.
Good question, and good analysis. The Pens have NOT faced a tenacious defensive effort like the Wings this season, which is why you're seeing much more dump and chase from them. It's not so much the physical play of Stuart and Kronwall as it is the positional perfection of Lidstrom and what has been, imho, a VERY impressive team effort by the Wings' forwards to backchecking. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are Selke finalists (best defensive forward) for a reason, the fact that they're also top offensive forwards is a huge testament to their skill. Draper is a former Selke winner. The whole team has the example of Steve Yzerman to look to - he went from 155 point scorer (only Gretzky and Lemieux had more in a single season), and 5 time 50-goal scorer/6 time 100 point scorer) to being an incredible two-way player and Selke Winner in 2000.
Hope that helps. I'm looking forward to an epic game 5 tonight, and hoping for the series to be over. That said, the 4th game is always the hardest one to win.
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Read the article. All rookie team, runner up to Leetch for the Norris his last season. For someone like Ted Lindsay to give him high praise and for Ken Holland to say "If you asked 100 people back then to name our best defenseman, it would be about even," Holland says. "But a few more might have said Konstantinov." In the recent trial, Ted Linsday said of Vlad "He was the best in the world, no doubt about it." While that may be a bit overstated in an attempt to sway the judge during the lawsuit, "Terrible Ted" wouldn't speak lightly.
I know a lot about hockey, but I'll be the first to admit that Holland and Lindsay know more than I do. I watched the Wings a LOT back then, and still do. Lidstrom's rock solid positional perfection was evident back then, and Vlad got a lot more attention due to his unbridled rancor when he threw a check, but he was also very solid defensively. +60 while Lidstrom's best single season was a +43... while not slam-dunk conclusive evidence that he was the best on his team let alone in the world, his stats speak for themselves and at the very least deserve respect.
The scary thing about Vladie, was other teams players were literally afraid to sake across the blue line when he was on the ice. He gave you a Stevens type highlight hit every other shift. And they weren't dirty hits, but guys on the other team sure remembered them. In the finals against Philly, everyone was warning the Wings to be wary of Lindross (pre concussions), Leclair and Reinberg (the legion of Doom) who had torn up the eastern conference. Well the Legion of doom was matched up by Bowman against Konstontinov every shift and Lindross only managed one goal the entire series ( a late goal to bring the flyers within one in Game four of a Detroit sweep). After game one the Legion of Doom was skating across the blue line with the trepidation of preachers kid with a collection of Playboy's under the bed.
I certainly hope the younger Pens players are taking some lessons from this series.
By the way....TheXym...you have been great in helping me understand the game. I knew about hockey and how it is played for years. I think my knowledge was just a bit better than a casual fan. I have learned quite a bit from you and the other guys posting in this thread. Thanks to you all.
Should Detroit finish off the Pens tonight, I'll be smiling when Osgood and Hank hoist the Cup. The rest of you RW's can go to.......summer vacation.
-Mike
By the way....TheXym...you have been great in helping me understand the game. I knew about hockey and how it is played for years. I think my knowledge was just a bit better than a casual fan. I have learned quite a bit from you and the other guys posting in this thread. Thanks to you all.
Should Detroit finish off the Pens tonight, I'll be smiling when Osgood and Hank hoist the Cup. The rest of you RW's can go to.......summer vacation.
-Mike
Divisional foes are fun... Pens rivalry is a bit of step up this past year, first of all because of the "Crosby controversy"
, and then the playoff series. Look for next year to be quite spirited. Although until Rangers d matures, I expect more of the P/O results and less of the regular season. Infact I can't see Rangers getting further than 1st/2nd round for a couple more years until this D gets a little grittier and like I said, matures.As far as the dump and chase, I think it was well covered huh? So far in P/O's Pens haven't had to do that because of their skill level, and they aren't a team that is very experienced at it, at least as a team. Rangers play dump and chase, we had Sykora, he was terrible for us. We had Adam Hall, he was a great grinder but he lacked an ability to re-gather the puck and find team mates (excellent play on the goal by him the other night though, wooh). Pens love to carry the puck, back the D up and gain the zone as a 3 man rush with strong ability by the defense to come in on the play. You see the pens try to get low with the puck, then reverse it to an on coming defenseman, not around the boards but thru the slot, or up into the circles. It's a scary and very effective play and they're trying to implement that into their dump and chase.
The Devils later on in the season were trying the same thing, but with less effect. Devils go for a lot of front of goal hard deflections. Again, very effective.
Should be a good game tonight.
Fine, I'll edit my initial post to change "average" to "good". I refuse to believe that he was anywhere near the greatest in the world at any point. If he had the potential or not, we'll never know.
The opinions of both Holland and Lindsay are biased, and what Lindsay said during the trial is an appeal to pity.
Yes, he was argueably the best defenseman on the Red Wings at the time. And argueably the best defenseman in the league at the time.
When I heard Crosby's statements I laughed. Espically considering Crosby doesn't even kill penalties.
He says any player would have done the same. Lets see Crosby kill a penalty for once and see what happens.
