Yeah, I've seen my share of bar troubles over the years too, so I know very well what you're saying. Anyways, hang in there bro and keep doing your thing - cheers and have great super bowl Sunday.
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The Bar Business is ROUGH
- Thread starter mellowinman
- Start date
Yeah, I've seen my share of bar troubles over the years too, so I know very well what you're saying. Anyways, hang in there bro and keep doing your thing - cheers and have great super bowl Sunday.
yep, it's a big bad world out there
i agree the bar business is rough, but it is what it is
i personally enjoy the grind, have for years & will continue to do so ( guess i ain't the type to give it up ( as so many here have ) & play holy roller for a congregation, or just wank away at home & think back on the glory days )
may i ask ?
if your band would have been good enough to " draw " & were one of the " money " bands on the regular rotation, would you have started this thread to warn of the conspiracy at the DuPont ?
( i may be wrong,, & i have been many times,,, but to me,, it kinda sounds like you've got an axe to grind against named bar )
got any good dirt on any of the other regular places you play ?
sorry to hear that your local scene is so rough, & it's kinda reassuring to know that nobody ever gets shot in the clubs / bars here in San Francisco, Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Fresno, Sacramento,,, oh wait,,,
wasn't jaco beat down outside a bar in florida ?
( most times i don't even post to these kinda threads,, but it's superbowl sunday,, both teams suck,, don't really care what the outcome is,, so it's like,, public forum < my .02 )
i agree the bar business is rough, but it is what it is
i personally enjoy the grind, have for years & will continue to do so ( guess i ain't the type to give it up ( as so many here have ) & play holy roller for a congregation, or just wank away at home & think back on the glory days )
may i ask ?
if your band would have been good enough to " draw " & were one of the " money " bands on the regular rotation, would you have started this thread to warn of the conspiracy at the DuPont ?
( i may be wrong,, & i have been many times,,, but to me,, it kinda sounds like you've got an axe to grind against named bar )
got any good dirt on any of the other regular places you play ?
sorry to hear that your local scene is so rough, & it's kinda reassuring to know that nobody ever gets shot in the clubs / bars here in San Francisco, Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Fresno, Sacramento,,, oh wait,,,
wasn't jaco beat down outside a bar in florida ?
( most times i don't even post to these kinda threads,, but it's superbowl sunday,, both teams suck,, don't really care what the outcome is,, so it's like,, public forum < my .02 )
Question for the OP, what's the dope scene like in that bar scene? I ask because- when I lived in Austin, I spent (too many) years post-divorce doing the club scene (not as part of a band), and a few things always puzzled me, like why did certain long-burnt-out one-time-minor-stars get a gig or two every week, while newer and far better bands went begging? Welllll...
Through events not to be related here, I got the skinny, which was that burnt-out former minor star's significant other was supplying the nose powder for many a club owner, etc. Of course many people in the music scene then were living La Vida Coca; but this tidbit cleared up many such riddles about how things worked... The other get-out-of-trouble-free card was to be either a relation of Willie Nelson's, or a UT football player. But those are other stories.
Perhaps something similar operates in the locale you describe?
Through events not to be related here, I got the skinny, which was that burnt-out former minor star's significant other was supplying the nose powder for many a club owner, etc. Of course many people in the music scene then were living La Vida Coca; but this tidbit cleared up many such riddles about how things worked... The other get-out-of-trouble-free card was to be either a relation of Willie Nelson's, or a UT football player. But those are other stories.
Perhaps something similar operates in the locale you describe?
I also think there's a big difference between a bar and some of these band "mills" that book several acts a night, with multiple 'venues' housed in the same building where different crowds tend to clash with the different scenes. These are more like clubs and are set up as such and require the security necessary for the draws they have. I've also seen more brutal violence occur in out of the way, rural venues than I have in any city that hosts venues of a similar size. I think its a geographical thing too. In other genres its par for the course, as was recently displayed at this lovely local (to me) watering hole recently:
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20140125/three-injured-in-shootings-outside-highland-bar
Wonder if that DJ felt mixed up enough about it to post his/her concerns and thirst for insight on an Internet forum? I tend to think not. But what happened at this particular venue is no different from what happens in hundreds across the US on any given night (with varying degrees of bloodshed). It just goes with the territory if a band is out there a lot. One of my first live gigs, I watched an innocent patron get his ear lopped off with a switchblade for a drink he didn't even spill. This would set the tone of the types of gigs I played in a "classic rock" band in the rural hudson valley for the next few years. Not the kind of action I'd see at the roots/alt country farmers market gigs that I eventually moved on to. A big chunk is also drug related, with many of these venues doubling as coke dealers markets.
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20140125/three-injured-in-shootings-outside-highland-bar
Wonder if that DJ felt mixed up enough about it to post his/her concerns and thirst for insight on an Internet forum? I tend to think not. But what happened at this particular venue is no different from what happens in hundreds across the US on any given night (with varying degrees of bloodshed). It just goes with the territory if a band is out there a lot. One of my first live gigs, I watched an innocent patron get his ear lopped off with a switchblade for a drink he didn't even spill. This would set the tone of the types of gigs I played in a "classic rock" band in the rural hudson valley for the next few years. Not the kind of action I'd see at the roots/alt country farmers market gigs that I eventually moved on to. A big chunk is also drug related, with many of these venues doubling as coke dealers markets.
Seems simple to me. A has been will draw a better crowd than a never was.
I don't buy the drug supply hypothesis. It is just as easy for new "better" bands to supply drugs than former stars. Frankly, there are enough drugs floating around the night life scene that a bar owner doesn't need to compromise sales just to get some [drug of choice].
Pretty much.
I can't control the audience or the club owners lack of efforts to keep a civilized environment. If we wanted to be in the scene and playing music in front of audiences (not to mention things like eating and paying rent) then we went where the audiences were. We lost our innocence pretty damn quick and kept on a truckin'. It was either that or find something else to do.
- Jan 27, 2010
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- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
It may be just as easy to do, but most people aren't drug dealers, and wouldn't become one just to get a gig.
Prone to violence? Drunk. Put these two together and no surprises here.
I attempted to start a thread a couple of years ago about paradigms that avoid the get em to dance, get em to drink and get paid things most bands use as their business model.
It didn't get much traction. I suggest that before the next guy gets shot, think about it.
OP, you're not a lemming. A lot of people are, and that is indeed "par for the course".
I pay my dues in moving hearts and asses, not enduring abuse as if it were a badge of honor.
Who we choose to associate with matters.
I pay my dues in moving hearts and asses, not enduring abuse as if it were a badge of honor.
Who we choose to associate with matters.
Yeah.
There's Jilli's. They scheduled is in, and then, a few days before we were to play, canceled the gig, telling us they weren't booking, because they just weren't getting the people in. (it was summer) Then, I came to find out they had booked in a band that was even lower than us on the local totem pole, because that band had hired a girl singer they liked, who had been fired from a fairly good working band, due to her poor work ethic, and alcoholism.
Jilli's rubbed me the wrong way a number of times, and I finally had an argument where the owner called me a dick, and I told him his bar smelled like a dirty urinal. (which it did.)
He told me I'd NEVER play there, and I never did, because they are now a PARKING LOT.
And then there's the Gin Mill.
We did pretty well there, but they stopped booking us, because we don't drink and snort coke with the owner, and they are now an EMPTY BUILDING.
I have all kinds of issues with all kinds of venues all the time. I start out trying to tow the line, and do the best I can, and in the case of DuPont, it never bothered me that they stopped having us.
We weren't drawing, and they never stiffed us. They were rude to us, however, and I didn't like their vibe. So I don't think I carried a lot of animosity towards them, but you know, when their bouncer kills a guy and doesn't get charged, that kind of makes me think my impression of the overall vibe of the place was pretty much spot on, you know?
This kind of crap in TB absolutely floors me
a man is shot dead and the responses are: "Oh, well, you gotta pay your dues!"
I'd like to know how many of you bass playing bad asses have ever witnessed a murder, or for that matter bent over someone dying. This is not pretend HeMan stuff over beers, it is the value of human life.
I dig if your bar scene has never ended in violence and death. Don't pretend it doesn't happen, and don't post like the fool against the mellowinman.
f n o r d !
ps. To accept violence is to condone it. Wherever it occurs, Shut it Down!
pps. I'm non violent until I see violence done unto others, then I do whatever necessary to Shut it Down!
I'd like to know how many of you bass playing bad asses have ever witnessed a murder, or for that matter bent over someone dying. This is not pretend HeMan stuff over beers, it is the value of human life.
I dig if your bar scene has never ended in violence and death. Don't pretend it doesn't happen, and don't post like the fool against the mellowinman.
f n o r d !
ps. To accept violence is to condone it. Wherever it occurs, Shut it Down!
pps. I'm non violent until I see violence done unto others, then I do whatever necessary to Shut it Down!
It's quite possible the bouncer had the same ethic. He saw violence and shut it down.
No, that's not possible at all.
He put two bullets in the chest of an unarmed person.
I disagree somewhat. The music business is owned by everyone in it, but it's controlled by the consumer/audience. They will decide who gets what. Case in point: one of our regular septic tanks is going out of business. Why? No one goes there anymore because the owner decided to cut the band pay and eventually the crappy bands who would play for her low pay drove all of her customers away. Most of her regulars started following us because we were about the only decent band to play there, until she started shafting us. We've all seen it time after time; take away the good bands, eventually the place goes under. These venues you're talking about, they're giving other bands your slot because those bands will work cheaper, and that's exactly why they're going out of business. But it's the consumer/audience that holds the power.
I think the bars are just having a real difficult time balancing the books. Good bands cost money but bring in more $$. Cheap bands are, well, cheaper, but eventually run off your regulars. It seems obvious to keep booking great bands and pay top dollar, but what if you can't afford it? Add in some poor money management, a big tax bill you can't cover, some heavy dipping into the till... people who aren't business owners don't always understand the difference between receiving a regular, reliable paycheck that you're able to budget your expenses to, and having to make decisions daily as to how to direct an ever-fluctuating revenue stream into the proper channels. And everyone thinks all business owners are rich....
As to "make yourself appear bigger than you are." I try to make myself appear smaller than I am. I'm not looking to intimidate someone into leaving me alone. I'm looking to fade into the background and be overlooked. Crazy drunken ass-hoes are not intimidated, they're encouraged by bravado. I'm with the guy who said he was glad his singer kept quiet when threatened, that could've been very ugly. I worry sometimes about my lead singer, he's pretty outspoken and in your face, but I don't think he can back up his mouth. Worried it might get ugly some day...
Finally, is OP the same guy who would get violent with someone for touching his amp?? Irony much?
I disagree somewhat. The music business is owned by everyone in it, but it's controlled by the consumer/audience. They will decide who gets what. Case in point: one of our regular septic tanks is going out of business. Why? No one goes there anymore because the owner decided to cut the band pay and eventually the crappy bands who would play for her low pay drove all of her customers away. Most of her regulars started following us because we were about the only decent band to play there, until she started shafting us. We've all seen it time after time; take away the good bands, eventually the place goes under. These venues you're talking about, they're giving other bands your slot because those bands will work cheaper, and that's exactly why they're going out of business. But it's the consumer/audience that holds the power.
I think the bars are just having a real difficult time balancing the books. Good bands cost money but bring in more $$. Cheap bands are, well, cheaper, but eventually run off your regulars. It seems obvious to keep booking great bands and pay top dollar, but what if you can't afford it? Add in some poor money management, a big tax bill you can't cover, some heavy dipping into the till... people who aren't business owners don't always understand the difference between receiving a regular, reliable paycheck that you're able to budget your expenses to, and having to make decisions daily as to how to direct an ever-fluctuating revenue stream into the proper channels. And everyone thinks all business owners are rich....
As to "make yourself appear bigger than you are." I try to make myself appear smaller than I am. I'm not looking to intimidate someone into leaving me alone. I'm looking to fade into the background and be overlooked. Crazy drunken ass-hoes are not intimidated, they're encouraged by bravado. I'm with the guy who said he was glad his singer kept quiet when threatened, that could've been very ugly. I worry sometimes about my lead singer, he's pretty outspoken and in your face, but I don't think he can back up his mouth. Worried it might get ugly some day...
Finally, is OP the same guy who would get violent with someone for touching his amp?? Irony much?
You make a very good point. I think there can often be a disconnect between venue owners and what is considered by the public to be favorable music. To some of them (and to their ultimate detriment), a band is a band is a band. I've seen it happen a bunch locally where a group of rank amateurs who play for free or very little take up a residency of sorts and kill the scene. The owner doesn't necessarily like or care about the music quality in general and views bands arbitrarily. They think "Why should I pay these guys $500-$1000 a gig when these guys will do it for next to nothing?" Suddenly, nobody is showing up and the owner interprets it as a general disinterest by the public in live bands, when in fact it's a general disinterest in crappy bands.
Finally, is OP the same guy who would get violent with someone for touching his amp?? Irony much?
That is not what Irony is.
The very REASON I have to keep people off my amps, and other equipment is that I am in this very ugly atmosphere where bar owners, sound people, and even bartenders try to push bands around. SOMEONE has to stand up for themselves. This whole "kiss all our asses or YOU'LL NEVER PLAY HERE AGAIN" attitude some establishments display is INTOLERABLE.
I am advising all of you NOT to take it.
If NO ONE takes it, then no one HAS to take it.
WE are the TALENT.
Without US, they have no entertainment. What distinguishes one Karaoke bar from another? What distinguishes one bar that hires crappy bands from another?
Disagree all you like, but I'm not being pushed around PERIOD.
There is no IRONY in that at all.
And last I checked, making someone think they can get clocked for messing with my stuff isn't on the same level as shooting an unarmed man in the chest.
PERSPECTIVE.
And WHY are bars having such a hard time balancing the books? Do you know what the markup is on alcohol sales?
Could it be the bar business has always been easy money for idiots who don't know much about running a business, and now that the economy's tight, the men are being separated from the boys?
Could it be the bar business has always been easy money for idiots who don't know much about running a business, and now that the economy's tight, the men are being separated from the boys?
So did George Zimmerman, and he walked after a jury trial.
Because in the eyes of the law, it isn't always as simple as armed man kills unarmed man, so armed man is guilty of murder.
