The Bar Business is ROUGH

[Jools4001]

A lot of us are more into being free than being "safe."

The difference between being a citizen or a subject of the Crown.

I'm more into being alive than being dead

I have never liked our royals, and rather wish the monarchy was abolished, but having been a UK subject for the whole of my life, I can tell you that in practical terms, the difference in terms of freedom between being a subject and being a citizen is virtually non-existent

 

[petrus61]

And WHY are bars having such a hard time balancing the books? Do you know what the markup is on alcohol sales?

Could it be the bar business has always been easy money for idiots who don't know much about running a business, and now that the economy's tight, the men are being separated from the boys?

I don't know if I'd call it easy money for idiots, but if I had a dollar for every bar in my area that is on COD from their liquor and food vendors because of outstanding balances, I'd easily have enough for another nice bass. I see them every day (I work in the wine/spirits industry) and its the same story every time. Certainly they aren't all bad and again, it can be geographical, but even some of the busiest establishments have bills dating back as old as October. If they can't afford to pay their vendors, the last thing they should be doing is booking bands.

 

[ChrisB2]

That is not what Irony is.

The very REASON I have to keep people off my amps, and other equipment is that I am in this very ugly atmosphere where bar owners, sound people, and even bartenders try to push bands around. SOMEONE has to stand up for themselves. This whole "kiss all our asses or YOU'LL NEVER PLAY HERE AGAIN" attitude some establishments display is INTOLERABLE.

I am advising all of you NOT to take it.

If NO ONE takes it, then no one HAS to take it.

WE are the TALENT.

Without US, they have no entertainment. What distinguishes one Karaoke bar from another? What distinguishes one bar that hires crappy bands from another?

Disagree all you like, but I'm not being pushed around PERIOD.

There is no IRONY in that at all.

And last I checked, making someone think they can get clocked for messing with my stuff isn't on the same level as shooting an unarmed man in the chest.

PERSPECTIVE.

C'mon man! Stick-out-tongue smiley = "tongue-in-cheek" or "j/k."

LIGHTEN UP.



I do, however, worry about you with your bravado attitude. Do you really want to get into a death-match with some septic tank ass-hoe? They are NOT intimidated by you sticking your chest out. And no one plays in the morgue.

NO ONE.

 

[Joe Louvar]

if it wasn't for drinking band members many little dive bars wouldn't have any customers at all

 

[ChrisB2]

And WHY are bars having such a hard time balancing the books? Do you know what the markup is on alcohol sales?

Could it be the bar business has always been easy money for idiots who don't know much about running a business, and now that the economy's tight, the men are being separated from the boys?

I would heartily agree with you here, many of them are total idiots. And when a business is "easy money" any idiot can run it, but when it gets tough even Real Men™ struggle...

 

[TravisJ]

I'm glad I live in the UK, we probably have the same proportion of idiots as any other country but at least the risk of anyone pulling out a firearm is minimal.

Have a look at UK gun crime statistics (30 or so deaths per year, population 65 million) and then tell me that you are safer because every US citizen (idiots included) has the right to own a gun.

According to this [British] newspaper, violent crime in the UK is worse than in the US and among the highest of all first world countries. I don't know if US residents are safer because of gun ownership. However, there is clearly less violent crime here compared to the UK.

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[mellowinman]

I think some of you may be underestimating how angry I am about this.

 

[ChrisB2]

Is that a threat?

 

[BawanaRik]

That is not what Irony is.

The very REASON I have to keep people off my amps, and other equipment is that I am in this very ugly atmosphere where bar owners, sound people, and even bartenders try to push bands around. SOMEONE has to stand up for themselves. This whole "kiss all our asses or YOU'LL NEVER PLAY HERE AGAIN" attitude some establishments display is INTOLERABLE.

I am advising all of you NOT to take it.

If NO ONE takes it, then no one HAS to take it.

WE are the TALENT.

Without US, they have no entertainment. What distinguishes one Karaoke bar from another? What distinguishes one bar that hires crappy bands from another?

Disagree all you like, but I'm not being pushed around PERIOD.

There is no IRONY in that at all.

And last I checked, making someone think they can get clocked for messing with my stuff isn't on the same level as shooting an unarmed man in the chest.

PERSPECTIVE.

Violence begets more violence. Threatening someone gives them the option to escalate.

There aren't any bands getting paid in morgues.

 

[BawanaRik]

No, that's not possible at all.

He put two bullets in the chest of an unarmed person.

That's your opinion. Mine is if an individual courts violence he will find it.

I don't know what this individual did to get himself shot but I doubt he just said said "hi".

I also didn't catch where the alleged victim was unarmed.

It's quite possible the real vic is the person forced to fight to protect his life.

It's best when things like this happen to remain calm and allow the people who know what happened to deal with it.

 

[mellowinman]

That's your opinion. Mine is if an individual courts violence he will find it.

I don't know what this individual did to get himself shot but I doubt he just said said "hi".

I also didn't catch where the alleged victim was unarmed.

It's quite possible the real vic is the person forced to fight to protect his life.

It's best when things like this happen to remain calm and allow the people who know what happened to deal with it.

I don't deal in judgment, and morality.

I deal in what the law says.

Surely you can't think of any law that says you can get into an altercation, and then leave the premises and go outside, and now you are still so much of a threat that someone can follow you outside and shoot you, right?

See, if I'm the bouncer, I call the cops, and the victim, instead of becoming a victim, now becomes the suspect.

 

[BawanaRik]

I don't deal in judgment, and morality.

I deal in what the law says.

Surely you can't think of any law that says you can get into an altercation, and then leave the premises and go outside, and now you are still so much of a threat that someone can follow you outside and shoot you, right?

See, if I'm the bouncer, I call the cops, and the victim, instead of becoming a victim, now becomes the suspect.

Right now it looks like the law thinks the victim had it coming. Or they would have arrested the alleged shooter.

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

Right now it looks like the law thinks the victim had it coming. Or they would have arrested the alleged shooter.

Right now it looks like the police thinks the victim had it coming. They're not the same thing as the law.

 

[mellowinman]

Right now it looks like the law thinks the victim had it coming. Or they would have arrested the alleged shooter.

I'm not buying that at all.

That turnip truck I fell off?

It went by a lot longer ago than yesterday.

 

[bswag]

TravisJ- No hypothesis at all, strictly the facts. Can't tell you exactly how I know those facts, on the very outside chance of complicating someone's life, OK? But those WERE the facts. And no, Mr Has-been DID NOT draw better crowds; that was part of the mystery! If he'd had a decent turnout, I wouldn't have wondered about it.

Factor88- Mr. Zimmerman remains a walking (next) disaster waiting to happen. He "walked" after a half-jury trial reluctantly brought against him by an establishment that originally didn't intend to prosecute him at all. Why? Can you spell "racism?"
The "eyes of the law" are not always interested in the facts. To get back to topical, I believe the OP mentions witnesses to this particular shooting? So it might be best to leave GZ out of it?

 

[bswag]

BawanaRik- The "law thought?" Really? Here in Madison, there was a sad and very long-drawn-out case wherein a certain person, a musician and studio employee, got himself blotto drunk and was trying to break into a house he thought, in his state, to be his. Cops were called, with the result that he was shot dead by a certain (now former) officer.
Despite months upon months of protest from the witnesses- there were several- that the drunken person presented no credible threat to the officer, and despite said officer's long history of violent over-reaction, our MPD tried their best to wait for it all to blow over. They finally had to cave when some of the officer's E-mails- rife with racist and sexist profanity concerning various persons, fellow officers included- were made public.
And, you know, Madison is a supposedly "liberal" town- not like, er, Florida.
So I wouldn't put too much faith in what "the law thought" without digging a lot deeper.

 

[aborgman]

we are worth more than what many of us accept.

No, we're worth EXACTLY what we accept - by definition.

There is no inherent worth, only agreed upon prices.

 

[mellowinman]

No, we're worth EXACTLY what we accept - by definition.

There is no inherent worth, only agreed upon prices.

Yes there is.

 

[Jools4001]

According to this [British] newspaper, violent crime in the UK is worse than in the US and among the highest of all first world countries. I don't know if US residents are safer because of gun ownership. However, there is clearly less violent crime here compared to the UK.

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Oh dear. If you lived in the UK you would take anything the Daily Mail says with a very large pinch of salt, it is the newspaper of the small minded, and is always on some hysterical rant about the country going to the dogs; and this is at the best of times.

Then factor into the equation that the article you quote comes from a long time ago, when Tony Blair was Prime Minister - and he left office in 2007. As Prime Minister of a centre left Labour government, Blair was and probably still is, absolutely hated by the Daily Mail and under the editorship of Paul Dacre, this newspaper would foam at the mouth on a daily basis, whipping up ludicrous stories on scant evidence, in order to discredit the law and order record of a government it despised.

If you look at the article, it doesn't even name the source of the information- it is all according to an unnamed survey and an unidentified "International Crime Report" as if the word "International" bestows some credibility; something the Mail gropes for but usually misses.

Edit: Just reread the article and Labour had been in power for 4 years - so that makes it 2003.

 

[aborgman]

I don't deal in judgment, and morality.

I deal in what the law says.

Surely you can't think of any law that says you can get into an altercation, and then leave the premises and go outside, and now you are still so much of a threat that someone can follow you outside and shoot you, right?

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In 2008, what started as a confrontation in a South Florida Chili’s restaurant ended with a shooting that left two 24-year-old men dead, after Gabriel Mobley went to his car and retrieve a gun. While the trial judge found that Mobley was not immune from prosecution using the state’s Stand Your Ground law, a 2-1 appeals court overturned that finding last week, holding that Mobley was justified in using deadly force.