The bar for playing out is set way to low

[FirewalZ]

This really gets at a point I keep trying to make with one of my bands. There's one member who is averse to putting anything online that's not pro-quality recording. I'm talking about live video that's shot in a club with a cell phone. My contention is that, for anyone who isn't already familiar with our band, there's a very low bar that needs to be addressed and that bar is "they don't suck."

The sad truth is that, in this day and age, if you say to someone that you have a band, they're going to assume it's not quality, because there's so much of that out there. Convincing people that you don't suck is the first step toward getting people to actually come out and see you.

Yep, being a musician or in a band is not seen as a valid profession by many. I had a post a while back about a large race track(making squillions on race weekends) who advertised for bands. I did the whole EPK thing and during the discussions they wanted us to bring our own pa, play 3 nights, with set up and tear down, etc....for free. What bothered me the most was that that expectation did seem to bother them...do they think so little of us as to ask us to do all that for no pay?

 

[BassJuju]

They don't care...

This...

 

[j0616bass]

95% of my gigs these days fit into 2 categories.

1. Corporate, special event, or private party cover gigs that pay well
2. Multi-band all original gigs that may or may not pay (and probably going back into a band fund if it does)

The other 5% are gigs that are interesting, have high potential to turn into other gigs that meet the above, or just sound fun.

 

[JGbassman]

I for one don't necessarily mind some of the hack bands out there. They actually help my bands, where we do practice and are professional.

Music talent runs in circles, and you move up and down in these tiers based on your talent, look, and conviction. Hack bands are all over, and it's clear they get the respect and pay they deserve. I've done my fair share of auditions with such bands, and I simply won't work with musicians of that mindset.

Pro bands working A clubs are at a different caliber, and they get the pay and respect they deserve. They generally have a writer, stage plot, and all the good that go with a top level band. No, they don't play at joes suds and slop house, because Joe doesn't have the budget to pay them what they are worth. Once again, it's all about circles, and bars are no different. Crappy bars get crappy bands, simple as that. If a crappy band is happy with a few bucks covering worn out songs, and the bar is making money, it's a frugal investment.

I play shows now, I have burned out playing three hour sets in bars for low pay. I love the art of music, and I've played professionally for many years. I have a great tribute band in the making, our first show is in six weeks, and we have been practicing for three months to cover a 45 minute opening slot. Our first gig is in a arena style event center, tickets are 20-25 dollars for the show. We have the exact sound of the band, the look, and stage plot. It's a labor of love, and we enjoy the fruits of the hard work we have put into it. We decided early on, we would not play in bars, and only select venues with other quality bands. Our game plan is to be headlining within the next year. We have a promoter that only handles a a small amount of quality tribute acts, and is very successful doing so. Once again, I consider this a cover band, but one that is top notch. This isn't the hack band playing off a music stand in a dive where they moved the pool table over. If that's your thing, so be it, but it's not mine.

I also play in a very good band that writes their own material, and does a few covers, which are changed a bit to the sound of the band. This band has every bit the talent the tribute band has, but we don't expect to make much money, as original bands aren't supported the same way cover bands are, which is a sad state of affairs. We will do shows with other bands on multiple billed events, but no dive bars here either, working three hours for hardly anything. But I'm not in this band for the money, it's about the creativity.

I hope I don't come off sounding snobbish, it's not the direction I was intending. Music has always been a huge part of my life, and I don't treat it as a second thought. I certainly don't play with other musician that act that way either. I spend a lot of time working on the music I play, and I want to be around others that feel the same way. Inherently when you do, the bar is raised, and the places you have the ability to play are at a better level as well.

I have supported friends that play in hack bands, and I will stomach a few hours in a dive to do so, but it's not enjoyable. I love hearing great bands in nice clubs performing a practiced set list with a professional sound engineer/system, and I will pay to see this. I don't mind spending money on a quality product.

When I play, I want to be that quality product, and I spend a lot of time preparing to be that quality product.

 

[FunkySpoo]

Yep. The number of venues holding the bar up for professional-level live music has dwindled. They're not paying anything so who cares? If the band can bring their friends and family in to drink a couple of beers, that's all that matters now.

To some degree I don't blame the average local bar/restaurant for this. The restaurant/bar business is a tough tough business to keep open without the live music headache. To expect the local bar owner to also know which bands in the area are good and which are bad is asking a lot, I think. That kind of expertise is with the pro booking agent so the local bar should affiliate themselves with an agent/promoter if they want top talent. But they don't because they don't want to pay for top talent. If the bar wants to get out of paying for bands then the band should play for the door and only the door. That way new band can get their feet wet and the bar isn't left holding the bag and good bands with a following pack the place, get paid, and the bar makes out as well. There are a lot of layers here.

Having said all that, I think for the most part the local bar owner doesn't give a crap about how good the band is. They want a band that brings in lots of people who are going to spend lots of money. I've seen terrible bands that somehow have a huge following and some really good bands that play to a mostly empty room. Guess which gets more bookings.

 

[TheMaynorD]

If you're not ready for open mic night to be amateur hour then open mics are not for you

Yup. This one made amateur hour look like the presonus booth at NAMM....

 

[Smooth_bass88]

At the other end of the spectrum is what I saw the other night.

We went out to dinner and we noticed there was someone setting up gear getting ready to play. Cool, I'm into checking out live music. We get seated, but out seats are such that we cannot see the 'stage'. It's really really small and obviously for an acoustic solo act or duo. A short time later, we hear music- very quiet but it was definitely a full band: drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, background vocals, the whole 9.

Turns out it was a dude singing and playing guitar to complete, full pre-recorded mixes of Brown eyd girl, Africa, Sweet Home, etc. What the heck? How is this NOT karaoke? It was so goofy. At one point during one of the "solos", I turned to my kid and said, "he could literally leave the stage and go to the bathroom and it wouldn't make a difference".

Sorry, this is not live music. Sadly, this probably happens more often than we know.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yup. This one made amateur hour look like the presonus booth at NAMM....

I've been to some really awful ones lately. I'm in one band where the bandleader likes to take three songs that we're just learning and do open mic nights to polish them up, and also to network with club owners. I hadn't done an open mic for decades, no lie, but it's been kind of fun to get out during the week and have dinner.

The "talent" is a mixed bag, for sure, and for all the horrors I've had to endure, there have been some where the level of musicianship has been surprisingly good. Apparently word gets around in the more professional circles about those, and all the pros show up there. But it's wearing a little thin on me lately.

 

[chaak]

I thought the OP was referring to playing outside the harmony as in soloing over chord changes in jazz.

 

[Ric5]

The drummer for my Rockabilly trio plays with another band, a "pick-up" band where the BL books gigs and then whoever is available shows. He was playing six blocks from my house, so I thought I'd go see them.

It was awful, amateur hour in the worst possible way. Their setlist consisted of every tired, overplayed song you've ever heard; Sweet Home Alabama, Taking Care of Business, Fire (Springsteen). The equipment was cheap; the PA was distorted even though they played at a low volume, the "lead" guitarist was playing with an old solid state head and some kind of cheap PA cabinet and using the reedy, buzzy, fuzzy tone on every lead.

They didn't play a single song within spitting distance of right. It was really clear that they were playing off memory, blatantly reading lyrics on music stands right in front of them, eyes glued to the page. They were just going through the motions, just lifeless, generic readings of these tunes. The BL kept turning his back to the audience shouting out instructions as they were playing.

The BL wasn't a bad singer, but he just read the words and didn't know a lot of the melodies very well. The "lead" guitarist was just an awful singer, monotone, almost whispering, reading the lyrics, didn't know the melodies of the tunes he was singing, just embarrassing to watch.

The BL didn't bother to tune his guitar before he started and it was really badly out of tune the entire set. The last song of the set was "I can't help falling in love with you" and when he hit the opening out of tune chord, I just cringed. How do you not hear that????

If this is the best effort your band can put out, please stay home and stop giving live music a bad name. The saddest part of this story is that they work 5 or 6 times a month. The bar needs to be raised and clubs need to stop hiring "bands" like this.

The one bright spot, besides the drummer, was the bass player. Except for an ill-advised solo, he played really solid lines and he and the drummer kept things from being a train wreck.

OK, rant over.

I saw a band like that in Michigan about 20 years ago … except they had a drum machine …

Have you ever heard Led Zepplin with a Drum machine?

 

[dan1952]

This has always been the case. Some really bad bands have always worked a lot. Maybe they have a lot of friends. Maybe they are friends with the club owner. Maybe we need to face the fact that most folks going out to the bar don't know or care whether the guitarist is in tune. At the time of his death, Lenny Breau, one of the all time great guitarists, was playing the back room of a pizza joint for $40.00. Figure out a way to make money for a bar and you'll be hired to play there.

 

[onda'bass]

I know this band lol. I say go ahead let them play beaten to death tunes for $50. For me the keys don't go in the cars at the price. I am more focused on self improvement and if the right thing comes along I'll give it a shot. Like other's have said, I'm burned out on old tunes, late hours, and bad pay.

 

[dan1952]

Club owners are under no obligation to only hire good bands.

 

[LBS-bass]

To some degree I don't blame the average local bar/restaurant for this. The restaurant/bar business is a tough tough business to keep open without the live music headache. To expect the local bar owner to also know which bands in the area are good and which are bad is asking a lot, I think. That kind of expertise is with the pro booking agent so the local bar should affiliate themselves with an agent/promoter if they want top talent. But they don't because they don't want to pay for top talent. If the bar wants to get out of paying for bands then the band should play for the door and only the door. That way new band can get their feet wet and the bar isn't left holding the bag and good bands with a following pack the place, get paid, and the bar makes out as well. There are a lot of layers here.

Having said all that, I think for the most part the local bar owner doesn't give a crap about how good the band is. They want a band that brings in lots of people who are going to spend lots of money. I've seen terrible bands that somehow have a huge following and some really good bands that play to a mostly empty room. Guess which gets more bookings.

I agree with much of this. A couple of points: It's rare, at least in my experience, that any small venue is going through an agent to book bands. All the bands I've been in that played bars or small clubs had someone in the band booking them. We had either 1) a reputation for being good or 2) promotional materials, and those things got our foot in the door. The first show being good and positive audience response was what kept us going back.

What I think happens now is that the regular "crowd" for these kinds of businesses is no longer there. So now they're happy if ten or fifteen people come in with the band and sit around having beer for a few hours. They don't pay for a band, but they get a few customers spending money on a night when there would otherwise be no one in their club. That's just how it is now.

 

[LBS-bass]

Club owners are under no obligation to only hire good bands.

True. And their customers are under no obligation to stick around and listen to bad bands.

 

[swink]

This can go either two ways:

1. Whipe your tears, get over it and give them a place in society. Every layer in the music business has their clowns. If you think you can do better than what the paying client expects from you.... Walk on by...
They are harmless...

2. Start a campain to white-out all these wanna-be musicians ... put them on trains towards "music-trainingcamps", torture them by letting them preform for each-other. We all know how this will end...

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Redhead calendar update 2019. If this is a dead scene, I'll take it.

 

[LBS-bass]

Redhead calendar update 2019. If this is a dead scene, I'll take it.
View attachment 3392212
View attachment 3392213

June is starting to look close to what we used to do back in the day. Three to four days a week was our normal schedule, five in the summer if the town was a resort. We did travel a bit to achieve that.

 

[bdplaid]

The drummer for my Rockabilly trio plays with another band, a "pick-up" band where the BL books gigs and then whoever is available shows. He was playing six blocks from my house, so I thought I'd go see them.

It was awful, amateur hour in the worst possible way. Their setlist consisted of every tired, overplayed song you've ever heard; Sweet Home Alabama, Taking Care of Business, Fire (Springsteen). The equipment was cheap; the PA was distorted even though they played at a low volume, the "lead" guitarist was playing with an old solid state head and some kind of cheap PA cabinet and using the reedy, buzzy, fuzzy tone on every lead.

They didn't play a single song within spitting distance of right. It was really clear that they were playing off memory, blatantly reading lyrics on music stands right in front of them, eyes glued to the page. They were just going through the motions, just lifeless, generic readings of these tunes. The BL kept turning his back to the audience shouting out instructions as they were playing.

The BL wasn't a bad singer, but he just read the words and didn't know a lot of the melodies very well. The "lead" guitarist was just an awful singer, monotone, almost whispering, reading the lyrics, didn't know the melodies of the tunes he was singing, just embarrassing to watch.

The BL didn't bother to tune his guitar before he started and it was really badly out of tune the entire set. The last song of the set was "I can't help falling in love with you" and when he hit the opening out of tune chord, I just cringed. How do you not hear that????

If this is the best effort your band can put out, please stay home and stop giving live music a bad name. The saddest part of this story is that they work 5 or 6 times a month. The bar needs to be raised and clubs need to stop hiring "bands" like this.

The one bright spot, besides the drummer, was the bass player. Except for an ill-advised solo, he played really solid lines and he and the drummer kept things from being a train wreck.

OK, rant over.

I'm with you. And no doubt they were wearing cargo shorts.

I have long complained that the money is so low because these hacks (who should be drinking beer and playing in a basement) will work for anything just to get out of the house.

I nearly joined one of those bands not so long ago because it was the closest thing in my area to a funk band, something I have been desperate to play in for awhile. I ended up calling them back because I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

My current band is all original and is merciless on getting things correct. We have even split up rehearsals, with the singers practicing one night, soloists practicing one night, and then we all get together on another night.

 

[corndog]

I get what your saying, my career needs to to do a lot of public speaking, prep is key for me.

However, to say they are giving live music a bad name is over the top. They only represent themselves, not “live music”.

Each player is their own brand, you acknowledge that in your post.

It’s no different than a bunch of beginners renting a basketball court at the local rec center to play some pickup ball. Yup, it’s probably going to be a trainwreck to watch, but they certainly aren’t giving basketball a bad name.