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The basic flaw in the p-bass

#61
Nobody said:
Oh good another "P basses aren't perfect." / "YOUR WRONG P BASSES ARE PERFECT! YOU MAKE ME CRY WITH YOUR LIES! LEO GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME! FLATS! SUNBURST! TORT! PRE-CBS! IT'S SQUIER NOT SQUIRE! EVERY SONG EVER RECORDED WAS DONE WITH A P BASS!" thread.
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LOL!

This is why I love TB - cool dudes with a great sense of humor making me laugh!

:)
 
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#62
George Mann said:
To answer the OP, it is not a flaw in the typical sound of the Precision bass but rather a well known psycho-acoustic phenomenon!

As our ears are a great deal more sensitive in the hi-frequency range as opposed to the low, adding more treble reduces the amount of bass that we perceive.

This is especially true when applied to a mid-scooped split-coil pickup.

A way to counter it is with a thick, powerful lower midrange.
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See the Wikipedia entry for: psychoacoustics, and you will find a graph of the perceived response of the average human ear that shows the increased sensitivity to higher frequencies that may explain what you are talking about.
 
#65
had several P basses since the early 70's ,... never had the Not enough Low end issue ..!!??

i agree with the thoughts of ' a lot of treble and flats ' NOT


different basses = different jobs/sounds ....

could the split P pickup be wired out of phase .? out of phase usally gives less bass ..

doesn't the typical passive tone control act as a low pass filter ... grounding /bleeding freqs determined by the cap ?

maybe if it had some kind of Baxandall tone control .?

can't comment on Rics ... in 40+ yrs of playing , never had one ..!?
 
#66
Ric5 said:
The basic flaw in the p-bass

Quote from John Entwistle ... “Once you turn up the treble on a Precision, the bottom drops out.” “In big arenas, I wasn’t getting enough bottom end from the P-Basses when I had the treble all the way up.”
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With all due respect for the dearly departed Ox, that's not how passive electronics works. The tone control on a P bass only affects the high frequencies and it can only cut them. Turning the treble up does not cut the bass.
 
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#67
totallyfrozen said:
Precision bass + flats + roll the treble to FULL = pointless. :eyebrow:
If you want a bright tone, don't use a P w/flats. :hmm:

I've never met a P w/flats that lacked bottom. That's just silly talk. :scowl:
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Actually...I disagree with just about everything you've said.

My main squeeze is a '62 'P' RI strung with Sadowsky flats. In a live music situation, it sounds best with the tone up full. The flats tame the brightness.

That's one of the benefits of using flats on a 'P'. They tame the 'brightness', and yet one can still play with the tone up full. Note definition is not sacrificed and the tonal character of the P bass is retained. IMO, flats on a 'P' with the tone rolled off may sound good on a recording, but generally, I think that combination results in a live sound which lacks definition and verges on mud (well at least in my experience )

My rule of thumb: I like a P bass to moan like a good 'P' bass should, so I always keep some treble in my sound. It retains the tonal character of the 'P' bass (which is what I love about it )
 
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#71
Ric5 said:
The basic flaw in the p-bass

Quote from John Entwistle ... “Once you turn up the treble on a Precision, the bottom drops out.” “In big arenas, I wasn’t getting enough bottom end from the P-Basses when I had the treble all the way up.”

I re-discovered this last weekend ... I went to an outdoor party and our band played and some others as well. In my band one of the guitar players is also a bass player. I brought 3 basses and he brought a guitar and a bass. So at the end I plug in his p-bass with flats. He has always bragged about the low end from this bass. So I plug it into my Rig. An Ampeg with 2 2x10 cabs and a line out into the PA, and I turn up both knobs and to my surprise the was very little low end, just a lot of midrange plunky noise and clicks and fret buzz.

The basses that I had were a 5 string Rickenbacker a 5 string jazz with a stingray pickup in the bridge and a frankensteined 2 pickup SG bass also with 5 strings. All 3 of these basses had more bottom than the Fender p-bass with flats.
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Not sure.
I just ran my singlecoil P all the way 'open' for a recording and it did not lack in bottom end at all.
( this is with 7 months old R.Cocco roundwounds).
MY experience with splitcoil Ps and Ps in general is rather limited however.
 
#73
johnk_10 said:
hmmm. here's live Zoom H4n recording of my p bass w/stainless roundwounds, both volume and tone knobs up full, GK RB1001 all tone controls at noon. IMO, I don't think it's lacking any low end.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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Didn't sound like a big arena. Sounded like a small bar.

You people are trying to push an argument out against someone who can't even defend the argument. You know, since he's dead and all.

The one thing I take in all of this is in guessing that the Ox wouldn't give one damn what any of your opinions are.

Carry on with your denigration.
 
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#74
johnk_10 said:
hmmm. here's live Zoom H4n recording of my p bass w/stainless roundwounds, both volume and tone knobs up full, GK RB1001 all tone controls at noon. IMO, I don't think it's lacking any low end.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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This was the best part of this thread so far. Great Bass work. I can tell you were having fun playing that song. :cool: It sounds like your tone knob was up fairly high. You could have gotten even more Bottom end if you wanted to but it was perfect as is.
 
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#75
steelbed45 said:
You people are trying to push an argument out against someone who can't even defend the argument. You know, since he's dead and all.
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One thing we can know for sure: for whatever reason, The Ox disliked P basses so much he went with Alembic the first chance he got. I'm not sure if it matters whether it's an actual flaw or just his perception.

I've never had problems getting whump out of a P bass whether the tone control is rolled off or not, but then I've only ever played other peoples' P basses. Maybe if I lived with one I'd think differently about it.
 
#76
LeoFender58Preca9RobbLawrence2009.gif
 
#78
NYCbassist said:
This was the best part of this thread so far. Great Bass work. I can tell you were having fun playing that song. :cool: It sounds like your tone knob was up fairly high. You could have gotten even more Bottom end if you wanted to but it was perfect as is.
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thanks. yeah, actually my tone knob was up all the way.
 
#79
WalterBush said:
One thing we can know for sure: for whatever reason, The Ox disliked P basses so much he went with Alembic the first chance he got. I'm not sure if it matters whether it's an actual flaw or just his perception.

I've never had problems getting whump out of a P bass whether the tone control is rolled off or not, but then I've only ever played other peoples' P basses. Maybe if I lived with one I'd think differently about it.
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Makes sense, thanks.
 

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