The bass solo "drop out"

[tofumanchu]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

 

[lunarpollen]

Yeah, that sort of thing annoys me too... I'd prefer for the rhythm guitar to just keep going or to change to a more dynamic feel; and for any lead instruments to do their own subtle rhythm things, or do little melodic fills in whatever would be appropriate spots for the style of music (e.g., at the end of every measure), or provide tasty chordal/harmonic texture within a complementary note range to wherever the bass is residing during the solo... What would work best really depends on the type of music though.

 

[lunarpollen]

It might be worthwhile to just suggest to the other musicians, before the song begins, of what you would like for them to do during your solo bit.

 

[el murdoque]

I think it is too subtle for the audience when the bass solos over the full band. If you don't play super high up all the time, it takes a bass player, or at least a musician's ear to listen to the solo because it's not 'in your face' like a guitar/sax/trumpet solo.

On top of that, you get something no one else gets:
To play around with both the melody AND the rhythm.

 

[smeet]

Heres a few options I’ve used:

• A rhythmic/melodic solo, possibly modal, either over a static implied drone or staying away from tonal sounds
• Follow the changes of the song form, like a jazz solo over a standard
• Come up with your own changes, outlining them strongly enough that the rest of the band can join in

 

[turf3]

Well, the idea is not to drown out the bass. But some light comping especially for example by guitar in the higher registers can be very effective. I'd listen to some NHOP solos and see what the other band members were doing. For sure, we can expect that Oscar Peterson, one of the busiest piano players ever in human history, didn't just sit on his hands every time NHOP soloed, and NHOP soloed a LOT in the Peterson trios and quartets.

 

[tofumanchu]

It might be worthwhile to just suggest to the other musicians, before the song begins, of what you would like for them to do during your solo bit.

Yeah, this is absolutely the most straightforward way to deal with it! Simple and effective.

Heres a few options I’ve used:

• A rhythmic/melodic solo, possibly modal, either over a static implied drone or staying away from tonal sounds
• Follow the changes of the song form, like a jazz solo over a standard
• Come up with your own changes, outlining them strongly enough that the rest of the band can join in

In a real straight ahead blues/soul setting, I think the approach in your first bullet point would be very effective. For me personally, this is a very different way of thinking about a solo and I don't have a lot of language for this. Willie Weeks' solo on "Voices Inside (Everything is Everything) " from Donny Hathaway's "Live" album is a fantastic example of this. Any other recorded examples of this type of solo that folks could point me towards would be greatly appreciated!

Well, the idea is not to drown out the bass. But some light comping especially for example by guitar in the higher registers can be very effective. I'd listen to some NHOP solos and see what the other band members were doing.

I totally agree that any comping needs to be sparse and out of the way, which is a skill in and of itself really. I just queued up some OPT; thanks for the suggestion!

 

[mrcbass]

In a jam scenario it's tough, but if you're working with good musicians, they should no how to comp quietly behind a bass solo. But the drop out you experience is pretty typical with less seasoned players. I suppose it's better than them playing over you.

 

[J Posega]

I've been lucky to play with folks that don't do this as much. Usually a guitar or keyboard will keep time, maybe just play a hit on the 1 or wherever the chord changes normally land. Or just play a palm-muted rhythmic figure on the root notes. But if they all drop out, then that's my cue to play way outside the limits of spacetime.

 

[azureblue]

I prefer chord instruments to lay out, but in some instances, it's better for the guitar or piano to softly play chords to support the solo - and to let the band know where the progression is .
I use a gain boost when I solo - Solos, especially unaccompanied solos, need to be louder to compensate.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

I rarely play solo’s on a gig, but when the occasion occurs, I follow whatever the chord progression of whatever the song we were playing notes a little higher, adding a few more embellishments, with the core logic driving the chord changes remaining.

 

[LBS-bass]

Historically, bass solos started with upright basses, which were pretty hard to hear. So there's some traditional context here.

 

[Christofferson]

At the risk of being considered insensitive, here’s the first definition of “solo” that appears when one looks it up: “done by one person alone; unaccompanied.“

 

[TerribleTim68]

I'm all for just talking to the rest of the band and laying out what you'd like to have happen. Maybe they just don't realize what they are doing.
And as far as volume, rather than trying to turn everyone down, can't you just click a boost pedal or something to bring your own volume up a touch?

 

[Michedelic]

Here’s an instance where the guitar solo morphs into the bass solo, to good results…

Very rare, and with their sparse instrumentation, it works, but it is an exception. Fraser does get up high, but usually in any other context guitar or keys trample over bass sonic space no matter how softly they may play. It may not be ‘blues’, but there’s a lot of prog and fusion where the band chugs along under the bass, but that was on recordings and a function of the mix.

 

[StatesideRambler]

I’ve played at jazz jams in a tourist hotel lobby and it drives me to distraction that the other players always lay out rather than lay back during solos. I’ve been incapable of convincing them that I’d appreciate them comping when I’m up front. I’ve stopped going there.

 

[bass12]

One of my pet peeves. What inspires me to solo is harmony. If the harmony drops out then so does my inspiration.

 

[bassvi]

Ive discovered a lot of great guitarists and even keyboardists dont really think about how to accompany a bass solo. They aren't as used to being in a supportive role so they don't always understand what to do.... I like to have someone comp during solos when they can do it tastefully, otherwise no. I think some of them get bored and try to be too clever which can be distracting rather than supportive. I only figured this out after being frustrated many times after helping everyone else have a good foundation to solo over, then it was always "ok you're on your own" for the bass solo... figure it out. I even had one instance not too long ago where everyone, including the drummer dropped out (unexpectedly) at the start of my solo, on a live radio broadcast, lol. Put me to the test! Some bass players prefer no accompaniment during solos. Like someone said, you should let your bandmates know what you would like.

 

[Pings Bass]

It's a jazz jam thing, too. Makes sense in terms of being able to focus on the bass, with just some light rhythm support. I always like some light piano cues.

But if I'm totally honest, very few songs are served by a bass solo, and very few audience members pay attention to them.

I know a jam session is about letting everybody stretch out, but I'm just not generally interested in bass solos as a player or listener.

 

[Ric5]

A True Solo is just one instrument playing