The bass solo "drop out"

[Altitude]

Really?

and not
Jimmie Blanton
Walter Page
Charles Mingus
Scott La Faro
Oscar Pettiford
Ray Brown
Ron Carter
Jimmy Garrison
Art Davis
Ahmed Abdul-Malik
Buster Williams
Jaco Pastorius
Steve Swallow
John Entwistle
Geddy Lee
Slam Stewart
Joel Quarrington
Paul Chambers

or a few others???

I mean, Pattitucci can flat-out PLAY, but I suspect he wouldn't be so arrogant as to claim he could outplay all the above.

He would never make that claim himself, but any of the guys you listed would agree. It’s not really close, either.

 

[aprod]

I rather have them get out of my way and just let me do my thing.

 

[Ric5]

Well, if you apply extreme literalism to every single sentence you utter.

On the other hand, in the real world where people actually speak languages, there are these things called "idiomatic expressions" which do not have the same meaning as the literal words, yet are understood by all fluent speakers of the language. If I say in Spanish, "Todo el mundo entiende ese" it doesn't LITERALLY mean that every single one of the current 7+ billion inhabitants understands what I'm saying; what it means is that a huge majority of people conversant with the subject at hand understand it. If I say in English, "The fifth time he asked me that, I hit the ceiling" it doesn't mean I climbed up on a chair and pounded the ceiling with my fist.

In the context of popular music and jazz, the word "solo", especially in the context here where a group is playing and we're talking about "what happens during the bass solo?" the IDIOMATIC EXPRESSION "bass solo" does NOT mean everyone else must stop playing and the bass plays completely alone. In this context, which everyone else participating in this conversation has understood perfectly, the word "solo" means that the instrument in question is featured, in what's usually an improvisation, while the rest of the band provides some kind of background accompaniment. Granted, sometimes the whole rest of the band drops out: that's called in jazz parlance (which is NOTHING BUT idiomatic expressions) "strolling" or "laying out".

I assure you that if Charles Mingus had said during rehearsal "You know, Dannie, during my solo I'd like you to keep straight time the first couple choruses and then go into that triplet thing", Dannie Richmond would not have responded with "Well, you know, Charles, actually the word "solo" means "unaccompanied" so I'm not going to play at all" - not unless he wanted a punch in the mouth.

I sometimes employ hyperbolic rhetoric with the purpose to make people think and reconsider preconceived ideas

 

[Ric5]

Would that be musical instruments or are you including drums?

what do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?

Drummer ...



and now that we brought up drummers ...

During a drum solo ... usually NOBODY plays ... except the drummer

 

[Altitude]

Well, he does get a little bit of comping guitar. And swings like hell throughout. Help me, what's the name of the tune?

Four In One. Monk.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I prefer to just work with the drummer on my rare solos. I don't worry about the changes from the song - at the end of my solo I can bring back the line from the song intro or whatever to bring the band back in. If you want another instrument playing with you, just tell them earlier in the evening.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

Tread carefully here. Your best bet (IMO) is to play a 'groove solo', like Willie Weeks on the live Hathaway record. You don't to be known as the guy who always wants to take solos because the vast majority of folks who will hire you want simple 'meat and potatoes' bass playing- the kind that supports all the other soloists.

 

[Michedelic]

Just play the bass breakdown from
“Brown Eyed Girl”, and you’ll have all those middle aged women on the dance floor eating out of your hand.

 

[juggahnaught]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

This is a common issue (as expressed by others in the thread).

Sometimes, when you feel as though you're unable to be melodic or play with harmony, you can play with the rhythm, or even with just dynamics and note lengths. There are multiple ways to do a bass solo and it's worth thinking outside of the box.

That said - if there are keyboard players or organ players at your blues jams, talk to them before playing. See if they can lay down some soft pads or some type of comp during your solo to lay a foundation. (I'd avoid the guitarists, though, for various reasons.)

 

[coyote1]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

Ummmm…. tell the harmony (guitar or keys, not both) to lay in some chords along the way when you get your solo? This is common in jazz. It prevents the audience, and sometimes the band, from getting lost. It keeps everyone engaged. You might even, if there’s a horn section, have them do a couple stabs that are in keeping with what they’d be doing if you were not soloing.

EDIT: looking right above this post, I see it’s been suggested already.

 

[ryco]

Personally I prefer everybody except drums lay out.

I don't mind playing over changes, but it can be a little constraining.
It's fun to do your own stuff; including playing the changes or melody by yourself if you want.
A couple of things especailly playing jazz, is the band and the other soloists have already played over the changes a bunch of times. Sounds refreshing to play/hear something else for a wee bit. 2¢. But I certainly don't mind playing over the changes.


Way more like having the total space to do what I wanna do.

 

[Acoop]

I'd prefer the drummer drop out then I take a solo unless we're trading fours and that works.

 

[BassFalcon]

This is a good chance to learn to play chords and a melody on bass, or at least the occasional double or triple stop to give some harmonic context. Open strings are very helpful here too, as are harmonics. Listen to Continuum by Jaco, he fills that out quite nicely.

 

[slagheap]

Here’s an instance where the guitar solo morphs into the bass solo, to good results…

Very rare, and with their sparse instrumentation, it works, but it is an exception. Fraser does get up high, but usually in any other context guitar or keys trample over bass sonic space no matter how softly they may play. It may not be ‘blues’, but there’s a lot of prog and fusion where the band chugs along under the bass, but that was on recordings and a function of the mix.

If memory serves, there's an issue of Bass Player ( ten years back? )with a transcription of that solo.

 

[lfmn16]

Is it a solo if no one knows you’re soloing? Because if everyone is still playing, that’s about the size of it.

 

[tofumanchu]

I prefer chord instruments to lay out, but in some instances, it's better for the guitar or piano to softly play chords to support the solo - and to let the band know where the progression is .
I use a gain boost when I solo - Solos, especially unaccompanied solos, need to be louder to compensate.

I rarely play solo’s on a gig, but when the occasion occurs, I follow whatever the chord progression of whatever the song we were playing notes a little higher, adding a few more embellishments, with the core logic driving the chord changes remaining.

Yeah, this is what I tend to do. Without the accompaniment, I tend to really emphasize the roots of the functional chords and then go more upper chord tones / extensions on the passing chords. It tends to be a bit rigid, but certainly passable. I do try to leave a bit of headroom in the volume on the instrument to get the boost, but that is a very good point.

At the risk of being considered insensitive, here’s the first definition of “solo” that appears when one looks it up: “done by one person alone; unaccompanied.“

While this is true in a very strict sense, I think that the terminology applies to accompanied instrumental "features" in a tune as well.

One of my pet peeves. What inspires me to solo is harmony. If the harmony drops out then so does my inspiration.

This is a much more succinct description of how I feel; I tend to get overly wordy. With a supporting groove, I tend to focus on the rhythm and time feel, but once I am in solo territory I seem to focus more on melody and harmony. I'm going to take this as a challenge to think more rhythmically during solo sections and less about the harmonic structure. Looks like I'll be spending a lot of time listening to drummers in the near future.

Yes this is a common problem. When I play regularly with people I tell them what I want them to do when I solo. Harmonically I do think it needs to thin out a bit, but this is done by using open voicings and playing a bit more sparsely rather than totally laying out.

Yeah, I'm not looking for much.. just quiet shell voicings accenting the changes to give the audience the same context I have running in my head!

 

[glocke1]

For the last few years, I have been going out to various blues jams around town. I love the random nature of the sets, playing with a huge variety of other musicians, and just having a good hang with other nice folks. The fact that I have scored many future sub gigs through this process has been a huge added bonus, too!

One thing that I have noticed is pretty much a constant at all of these blues jams is the band "drop out" during the bass solo. A tune will be bouncing along, with each lead instrument taking a solo, when the bandleader calls for (gasp!) a bass solo. At this point every single player except for the drummer stops playing and the rhythm section does its thing. Now, it's great to have a great groove to play over, so the rhythmic context that the drummer provides is awesome. The problem is that there is no longer any harmonic context for the solo. I love the way that the melodic choices made by the other soloists are made brighter or more stark when set against the chord progression of the section, and I feel like we as bass players don't really get that extra bit. I understand that there is a volume concern so any accompaniment would need to be brought down to accommodate, so that's definitely a factor. Also, I'm not trying to go all bebop and way outside the changes, but I do like to throw in some superimposed pentatonics here and there, and some of the extensions tend to make people give me funny looks when laid bare. More often than not, I just end up outlining the chords so tightly that it sounds like I am not doing much more than making the bass line a bit busier.


While I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth -- getting a solo at all is a very wonderful thing -- I was just wondering if any of you run have into this and felt that is was more than a little constraining? Any tips for soloing in this context and keeping it interesting and distinct from the rest of the tune? Anyway, TIA!

Happens to me all the time in the rock bands where I'll take a solo..

Sometimes the drums lay back too much also and it all falls apart.

I think most rockers don't really know what to do when a bass player takes a solo.

 

[micguy]

Bassists and drummers are truly support players - we understand that it’s not about us, and are OK with supporting whatever is going on elsewhere. Guitarists? For a lot of them, if it’s not about them, it’s break time - participating in part of a performance where someone else is featured…is not what they’re there for.

The good ones understand, though.

 

[Jaycat]

It's SOP at the bluegrass jams I attend. Other instruments play only on the 1 of the new changes. If you can't handle it, all you have to do is shake your head when asked if you want a solo.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Slapping solo! slapping solo!

Just kidding, slapping is the best way to get fired from a blues band and I speak from experience


Seriously in a blues context I start with the same approach as the OP stated (busier line) but then I play repeated pentatonic riffs in a higher register. Simple but it works. Unlike jazz solos, you must keep the groove going while soloing and it is a challenge.