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the bebensee arrives today!!!!!!

#181
CaptainWally said:
This sounds like a really bad transaction, and you definitely have every right to be upset. Let's see how he responds and if he can't make it right for you.
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He's been waiting far too long.

CaptainWally said:
I rather doubt he intentionally screwed up the design. It's not like he had anything to gain by putting in the wrong inlays and putting the pickups in the wrong place.
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lol...Tibal paid with real hard earned money right? He didn't pay a third in say appliances he no longer had use for, then say "oh, I didn't intend that". From what Tribal has indicated, Ken deliberately made design decisions without consultation and confirmation, and to top it off he took years to complete the bass. I'm sure the time frame wasn't something they both agreed on. Maybe Ken actually built it in a couple of weeks, then left it in his bass cellar for a few years to sweaten up.

CaptainWally said:
You guys are being pretty harsh. Character assault and bravado about lawsuits and flying to California. Can you at least wait to hear how Ken responds before you string him up?
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No. Ken's actions or lack thereof may be construed as harsh treatment. This reaction is to be expected when something like this happens. Steps should have been taken years ago.
 
#182
brubakerguitars said:
Man, I hate to hear this stuff. I could not not sleep at night if I took a customer's money and made them wait that long- not to mention all the other things! I gave up my entire Sunday last week because I commited to getting a bass finished up for a customer that gave me the whole amount up front. I told him it would be done by the end of this month( took the payment at the 1st of the month - this was a bass that didn't make it to the last NAMM and was just about done) and I had to stick to it, even though my wife had some plans for the day -she understood. Four years is just crazy/stupid to build an instument, unless it is for NASSA.

Bru
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I don't think that any reasonable person is likely to hold this kind of incident against custom builders in general. However, there are any number of unforseen events that can drag the wait time on an instrument into the unacceptable range.

For example, I had a neck backbow on a Roscoe 6-string fretless that required a replacement. Roscoe's estimated time for the job - 3 months. Five months later, Keith calls to tell me that the built the wrong width neck. It was a full year before I got the bass back.

The other inescapable fact (as I'm sure you're well aware) is that when you order a custom instrument you really don't know what you're going to get. Build two basses to exactly the same specs and they will not be the same in sound, feel, neck stability, etc..

Then, being that it's a "custom" instrument, you're usually stuck with it no matter how it turns out. If you had purchased an already-built instrument from a dealer/boutique, you'd probably have SOME kind of return policy.

Having said all of that, I'd love to play a Brubaker some day! :p

Andy
 
#183
KayCee said:
I don't think that any reasonable person is likely to hold this kind of incident against custom builders in general. However, there are any number of unforseen events that can drag the wait time on an instrument into the unacceptable range.



For example, I had a neck backbow on a Roscoe 6-string fretless that required a replacement. Roscoe's estimated time for the job - 3 months. Five months later, Keith calls to tell me that the built the wrong width neck. It was a full year before I got the bass back.



The other inexcapable fact (as I'm sure you're well aware) is that when you order a custom instrument you really don't know what you're going to get. Build two basses to exactly the same specs and they will not be the same in sound, feel, neck stability, etc

Then, being that it's a "custom" instrument, you're usually stuck with it no matter how it turns out. If you had purchased an already-built instrument from a dealer/boutique, you'd probably have SOME kind of return policy.

Having said all of that, I'd love to play a Brubaker some day! :p

Andy
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Problems do arrise on occasions. If and when they do, its imparative that the builder should notify the customer immediately informing them of this. Not 2 months after the fact, or not at all.
This is why I do a Blog on my builds with digital photos and send them to my customers along the way. In some cases, I have sent the instrument to the customer ( customers that were too far away from the shop) before the finish was applied for final inspection in case any changes were needed. I usually ask my customer`s who have a favorite neck profile to bring in the instrument ( or send it) so I can take neck specs off of it.
Not all Builders do this, but I do as my customers are very important to me, and being a Luthier is a Customer Based Service Buisiness.
There are always going to be circumstances where the customer is not going to love the instrument as much as they antipicated the outcome. This is why it`s important for communication between the builder and customer so these problems are minimized with both parties involved.
I find the reason for the problems that arose in Tribal`s incident is due to the lack of Ken`s Customer Service, later followed by Ego.

Tribal, I feel bad for you, and I hope you make out ok.

Keep in mind, not all Luthiers do buisiness that way!

Mike
 
#184
Taking that amount of money and refusing to deliver a product as agreed would be a felony in most or all states. And refusing to communicate would be further evidence of possible criminal intent.

If I were in your shoes, I would have asked either the California attorney general or the district attorney in his county to open a criminal investigation long before it came to this. That would have gotten you a refund of your deposit, pronto.
 
#190
KayCee said:
The other inescapable fact (as I'm sure you're well aware) is that when you order a custom instrument you really don't know what you're going to get. Build two basses to exactly the same specs and they will not be the same in sound, feel, neck stability, etc..
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I'd have to disagree. They most certainly can be the same in sound, feel, neck stability, etc. Emphasis on "can".

Then, being that it's a "custom" instrument, you're usually stuck with it no matter how it turns out. If you had purchased an already-built instrument from a dealer/boutique, you'd probably have SOME kind of return policy.
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It would depend on the custom and the builder. No doubt that if you order an Alembic Series I with a Steve Vai handle cut into it all bets are off. OTOH if you build something that's custom but sellable... well, the satisfaction/return policy is one of the first things you'd want to know when making any bass purchase.

Having said all of that, I'd love to play a Brubaker some day! :p

Andy
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:D
 
#195
fivestringdan said:
I'm not at all suprised.
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Ok, I have to ask, because the KB you had Ken make for you is one of the most beautiful instruments ever created (imo). What were the details with your order - anything screwed up like with this one?


frontfull.jpg


:eek:
 
#197
#include <MK> said:
He's been waiting far too long.



lol...Tibal paid with real hard earned money right? He didn't pay a third in say appliances he no longer had use for, then say "oh, I didn't intend that". From what Tribal has indicated, Ken deliberately made design decisions without consultation and confirmation, and to top it off he took years to complete the bass. I'm sure the time frame wasn't something they both agreed on. Maybe Ken actually built it in a couple of weeks, then left it in his bass cellar for a few years to sweaten up.



No. Ken's actions or lack thereof may be construed as harsh treatment. This reaction is to be expected when something like this happens. Steps should have been taken years ago.
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I'm flattered that you're so keenly interested in my posts that you are keeping a running commentary on them.

But you should probably continue with your work as I made several disapproving comments after Ken's response.
 
#198
How could sth. like this happen ?????????

Does Ken B. even cares about his name or the Basses he's making ????

5.000 ??? Oh , yeah - take this Bass ..... Oh, I still can't remember the details.... but **** on that - I built it from my memories.... in a very short time that last round 3 Years.....:rollno:

OH MY GOD - this is the most worst Story that I've ever heard 'bout a Luthier and its a SHAME !!!!!!

GET YOUR MONEY BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jules:D
 
#199
Hey Tribal,

Do you have any updates on this situation?

The Craw said:
Taking that amount of money and refusing to deliver a product as agreed would be a felony in most or all states. And refusing to communicate would be further evidence of possible criminal intent.

If I were in your shoes, I would have asked either the California attorney general or the district attorney in his county to open a criminal investigation long before it came to this. That would have gotten you a refund of your deposit, pronto.
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