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Double Bass The Chadwick Folding Bass
- Thread starter Bobby King
- Start date
I would love a bass set up with gut. I don't do it with my basses mainly because my weakness is still intonation! Coming from freestyle BMX, the facility came without much struggle, I very comfortable with my sense of pitch after decades of work, though not enough push my luck with gut! I love playing gut when I have had the chance.
Damon, I'm a fan, but to be honest I'm puzzled by this response. On the face of it, it seems to state that a.) I'm inherently wrong to be dissatisfied with Spiros, and b.) the failure lies in my lack of practice.
I'm wondering: could this discussion be framed and clarified, without deflecting it to player flaws (real though they no doubt are), and particularly without dismissing the central premise? I ask this in good faith, and with all due respect. Thanks.
Same for me. I keep flipping around and always come back to Spiros. I’ve got the 3885 Lights on and they’ve lasted for years. They look like they were dragged behind a car from coast to coast, but they keep on ticking. The silks and the peg ends are embarrassing, but the windings are as gorgeous as the day they left the factory. These are the only Spiros I’ve ever had on this bass in the 5 years I’ve owned it. Countless times on and off. I’ve got some new ones in order and I’m scared to try them. Prehistoric Spiros are hard to beat.
I’m about to try Spiro med E, light A and Poly DG if Canada Post ever unloads those trucks. I’ve had good luck with Innovation, especially on top. Synthetics are a drag a lot of the time with the travel bass, but I keep trying to walk that line between the sound I hear in my head and playability at the gig.
Our sound guy loves the Spiros too, we both wish my bowing technique was better and sounded like the Polys, but that’s on me.
I’m about to try Spiro med E, light A and Poly DG if Canada Post ever unloads those trucks. I’ve had good luck with Innovation, especially on top. Synthetics are a drag a lot of the time with the travel bass, but I keep trying to walk that line between the sound I hear in my head and playability at the gig.
Our sound guy loves the Spiros too, we both wish my bowing technique was better and sounded like the Polys, but that’s on me.
With regard to bowability, I’ve heard a few guys on Spiros and other ‘unbowable’ strings that sound so great. Way better than me. Way.
For me, at this point, I know I’m the weak link and need to spend hours and hours on it. That being said, a lot of you cats are monsters and I watch with wide eyes and open ears. So my issues aren’t the rule, that’s for sure.
For me, at this point, I know I’m the weak link and need to spend hours and hours on it. That being said, a lot of you cats are monsters and I watch with wide eyes and open ears. So my issues aren’t the rule, that’s for sure.
They take a fair amount of practice to get control of with the bow, but, when you do you get more range than any other string arco. The + practice is not a personal slight, just that they appear not to be as easy if you don't work with them. Strings that SEEM more friendly to the bow are really just dead or one dimensional.
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While it might be diverting to turn this into a “Spiros Rule” thread, I think it best to save that for the Strings forum. My concern is with the Chadwick Folding Bass, and the particular demands it places on strings.
Since my preference is not for Spirocores (yes, yes, muddlebrained poltroon, etc
), I’ll restate my original question: has any one had good luck using any other brand on their CFB?
Since my preference is not for Spirocores (yes, yes, muddlebrained poltroon, etc
), I’ll restate my original question: has any one had good luck using any other brand on their CFB?
While it might be diverting to turn this into a “Spiros Rule” thread, I think it best to save that for the Strings forum. My concern is with the Chadwick Folding Bass, and the particular demands it places on strings.
Since my preference is not for Spirocores (yes, yes, muddlebrained poltroon, etc
For the sake of clarity,I’ll repeat my experience.
I’ve had great luck with innovation 140B, too soon to tell with the Polychrome. They sound better to me though. Evah Weich G behaved well, was underwhelming for me. I’ve never tried any other steels, which is kinda ridiculous, I know, but I like the thicker top strings—hence the synthetics.
Some hard no’s are Zyex and Evah Slaps. Broke and mangled way too fast, regardless of what I thought about then as strings.
I'm not a bassist, so grain of salt required here... But I'm still rather fond of the BelCanto strings for their warm dark tone and softer feel. And they're almost as quick to stay in tune after assembly as spirocores. Bow a heck of a lot nicer too. I know, they're a bit too murky for some basses... But if you have a Chadwick hybrid, and if you've had the soundpost shortened slightly and moved to a position offering better leverage for the bridge (the little pins aren't too hard to pull out and re-insert, and the stock post position is a bit on the conservative side for pizz), they ought to sing out loud enough. I tried Spirocore weichs on a small travel bass a few years back. Hated them. As did every jazz and classical player trying it that first day, in a reasonably big hall. Ran to a music shop and bought some BelCantos and everyone was happy, pizz or arco. They settled in within a couple of minutes of putting the neck on my bass.
BelCantos work well for some bassists, still the sort of string that gets lost in ensemble playing and a bit one dimensional. The main issue, though, is that they are prone to breaking so so the setting up and breaking down a lot is not going to be great with them.
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Without pushing too much more into the Spiros rule direction - I don't think many people are evaluate how they sound in an ensemble. For basic small venue work with varying ensembles anyone not using Spiros or gut just sounds muffled and dull. Famous players can be more demanding with venue sound systems and their band mates, the rest of us can't. Also, really fine basses with tons of subtly can demand a different string. These Chadwicks are solid, student level basses, Spiros will add some life and detail, anything else is going to flatten them out even more - this goes triple for the plywood versions.
A slightly brighter or more biting sound is going to equal you being heard in group setting. Ultimately, the situations where string other than Sprios will serve you well would more than likely be more high end than the Chadwickis capable of.
Also, I don't think anyone is actually completely satisfied with Spiros, I just don't think a better option exists for most of us.
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I’ve never heard of them breaking. The only set I own has been on and off my bass at least three times.
Gerard, this is a solid recommendation based on real-world experience. Thank you.
Now I’m extremely intrigued about the soundpost tweak you mention. Are there any more details I could bring to my luthier?
On the Spiros question - I'd gone with Spiro weich based on the input of a few local bassists of prominence, who for the most part got it from another local luthier, who advocates strongly for those strings. I'd heard them over the years on a few basses and never liked them, always thought they sounded thin and harsh, but I let myself be swayed. A $260 mistake. With a decent sounding bass, BelCantos sing nicely.
As for the soundpost adjustment thing that's largely up to your luthier. If you've got a guy or gal who's capable of intuiting the proper location for your regular bass soundpost to your liking, chances are they'll have a decent grasp of what's needed with the relatively less efficient Chadwick. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what Chadwick has brought to the community! But the big rectangular hole in the back and all the extra wood and plastic inside don't do ease of vibration any favours. So in my opinion, which isn't often terribly humble (sorry), moving the post further from the bar to give the bridge more mechanical advantage in driving the belly on the lower notes seems obvious. And that's done by moving the fulcrum (the post) further from the bar (the end of the lever arm) to bring a broader amplitude into play.
Generally speaking, arco-centric bassists usually want their soundposts set approximately symmetrically with the bassbar of their instrument. Maybe a little further from centre if they play the odd jazz gig. Pizzicato-centric players usually favour having the post set somewhere between 5mm and 15mm further from the centre seam than the bassbar. It's not great playing a bass set up like the latter in a classical setting, which is why dialogue with the player about their repertoire is so important. A few millimetres can be a big difference in terms of sound quality and control. Go too far, and everything just goes to mud with a bow. Too conservative (too close to centre) and the thing just goes *thop* when played pizz. It's between you and your luthier, really, but that's the basic groove of the thing.
As for the pins; Chadwick just puts tiny finishing nails in each end of the soundpost and they stab into the wood of back and belly, to preserve post location while the thing's being bounced around on a plane. I prefer a foam ring lightly glued to back and belly at each end of the soundpost, something less damaging and easily removed if necessary. But the pins work. And Chadwick's protruding pins are less invasive/destructive than La Marre's finishing nails driven right through the back and belly, as I witnessed on Occipinti's bass some years ago. That was scary. But he swore it was fine, that his old bass was so stable it never needed a post adjustment... okay...
Squeezing the bass belly from side to side with a clamp makes easing out the pinned post not too hard. Then pliers pull the pins. The luthier proceeds to adjust the fit to a more advantageous position, marks that at each end (very easy thanks to the opening in the back), and the pins get re-inserted, the belly squeezed from side to side, the post re-inserted and the clamp let go. Easy-peasy.
I had this exact operation done. Much fuller and warmer. The E is much closer to the A now and arco is much more mellow, IME. I’d say give it a go.
I'll just offer the cautionary note that there's always a cost. Specifically, one tends to lose something in both speed of response and in ultimate focus of the sound when moving the post further from centre. This varies from instrument to instrument of course. Some will respond favourably to a very small change. Others will ignore even quite significant changes. My wife has a Hofner violin which basically ignores soundpost adjustments. Infuriating thing. She ended up putting octave strings on it, using it as a sub-viola, a role in which it seems happy. So what I'm suggesting is small moves. A session with a luthier who is willing and capable of offering very small changes in soundpost position with tuning up and playing between to assess.
Well yeah! Dominants have always been fragile as hell. I remember developing a thorough hatred of those things by about 1991. Especially the aluminum wound E on violins, and to a very slightly lesser degree the A on cellos. Broke all the time. Synthetic cores. Some crap fibre. BelCantos are virtually identical to Spirocores in construction, the biggest difference being the rate of twist for the cable core, something like 2.5x faster twist rate to give them that lovely flexibility. But they're solid steel. Or mostly steel at least. And the outer windings are much more durable than Dominants. WAY more durable than Obligatos, which come apart when one looks at them funny.
