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Double Bass The Chadwick Folding Bass

#341
Still, Brand new Bel Cantos vs. brand new Sprios on a bass played solo is hardly a fair fight. Sprios need a while to mellow. They are a bit like getting a new pet, they take a while to adjust!
The strings you pick are bit like having to pick one amp setting and just deal with it. We've all dialed in a beautiful amp sound in the living room and then frantically twisted the knobs as soon as the band starts.

All other strings, Bel Cantos included just lack the range. It makes perfect sense that a luthier would love them - I am sure they are great at selling basses. I guess Bel Cantos or some other string + pushing the highs on your amp is a way to go.
The thing is, with technique both arco and pizz, I can pull a dark, warm sound out of Sprios, you can't really do much to brighten up the duller strings.
The point being, let the strings break in and see how they do in all the situations you play in.
 
#342
damonsmith said:
Still, Brand new Bel Cantos vs. brand new Sprios on a bass played solo is hardly a fair fight. Sprios need a while to mellow. They are a bit like getting a new pet, they take a while to adjust!
The strings you pick are bit like having to pick one amp setting and just deal with it. We've all dialed in a beautiful amp sound in the living room and then frantically twisted the knobs as soon as the band starts.

All other strings, Bel Cantos included just lack the range. It makes perfect sense that a luthier would love them - I am sure they are great at selling basses. I guess Bel Cantos or some other string + pushing the highs on your amp is a way to go.
The thing is, with technique both arco and pizz, I can pull a dark, warm sound out of Sprios, you can't really do much to brighten up the duller strings.
The point being, let the strings break in and see how they do in all the situations you play in.
Click to expand...

I agree and am on the spiro train, but I saw a country/bluegrass band in austin a few nights ago (acoustic guitar, upright, fiddle, drums) and the bassist was getting the perfect amount of growl and thump and sustain playing pizz and then had a sweet arco sound. Using belcantos. I was shocked with the pizz sound though. Maybe it was the amp.

The versatility of spiros is unmatched. Top players in nola play guts or evahs. If I only played nice wedding halls I'd play evahs too, but i gotta go from that wedding to the bar band.
 
#343
Sam Dingle said:
I agree and am on the spiro train, but I saw a country/bluegrass band in austin a few nights ago (acoustic guitar, upright, fiddle, drums) and the bassist was getting the perfect amount of growl and thump and sustain playing pizz and then had a sweet arco sound. Using belcantos. I was shocked with the pizz sound though. Maybe it was the amp.
Click to expand...
Bel Cantos are nice, just limited. If you want a small range of nice pizz and arco, they could be a great choice. There are musics, like Bluegrass where the growl of Sprios is undesirable.
 
#344
Fair enough I guess. Though I've never bought a set of BelCantos to sell a bass. The only set I've bought was that day in 2011 when a bunch of bassists from the local jazz scene and our city's symphony were on a stage in about a 500 seat hall trying my first bass and three which Seth Kimmel had brought up to show. Laurence Mollerup had graciously provided access to that hall at the college where he ran the jazz program. Opinion against the Spirocore weichs was universal - they stank on my bass period. And yeah, they were brand new... but while up in the nosebleeds listening as I sat beside Seth, he quipped "Well you know, it does take about 9-1/2 years for Spirocores to break in." It was a few minutes after that when I ran the half mile to the nearest music shop and dropped $300 for a set of BelCantos.

And yeah, they folks there were playing solo, so not exactly a fair comparison. But the impressions were universally reversed; suddenly the bass was fun to play. When we went to the 2,500 seat Orpheum Theatre in the afternoon I heard 7 symphony bassists trying the bass before one of them asked me to join him at the very back row. He wanted an explanation as to why it was he could sit anywhere in the hall and hear about the same volume. That felt pretty good. I explained briefly about the Hutchins/Saunders research results around internal and relative plate tuning, how a proper relationship between Helmholtz resonances within the belly and within the back and then between those results in the most open vibration and projection throughout the audible range and minimizes wolf tones, correctly damping higher frequencies to suit the sensitivities of our hearing... he glazed over a bit so I shut up and we just listened. BelCantos worked just fine, pizz or arco, on an inherently solid bass. As it turned out later when a player from Oregon bought it, she liked Evah Pirazzis more for pizz and could live with them arco. Their relative fragility didn't bother her as she only very occasionally took the neck off for travel. I suspect she'd have stuck with BelCantos if she were taking the thing apart a few times per week. There just aren't that many strings well suited to routine de- and re-tuning.

If I were to put Spirocores on a bass I made now, I'd probably at least go with mittels. The G is still nasal and rather narrow sounding but not quite so whiney as the weichs. As for selling basses generally... I only have a few basses on consignment, and they wear whatever strings their owners put on them. My 10% isn't going to go very far in terms of adding strings at today's prices. I restrict my input to doing a few minor repairs and setup adjustments then whatever number of hours of chat is required to find new homes for them.
 
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#345
A sophisticated, hand made bass by a skilled luthier, even your first, should have about 100 times more nuance than the Chad we are talking about here, also.
As my hybrid breaks in, I still can only describe it as "solidly adequate". The plywood Chadwicks are just solid plywood basses, a far cry from the mythical Kays people get excited about.
Don't get me wrong, I do love this bass, with technique, a good set up and Spiro solo I can pull what I need out of it.
 
#346
Of course, and thanks for the generosity of your math. I've been tinkering with basses since 1993 and have heard 5 Kays which I'd call good, of the several hundred which have traversed my bench. I've managed to find something more in most of them with adjustments but I don't get too carried away as I understand their limitations, the inherent inferiority of laminated veneers as compared to a proper piece of spruce. I started giggling the first time someone told me about this new-fangled carbon fibre violin which was going to take over from traditional wooden construction... uh-huh. So far the best effort in that direction has seemingly come from Luis & Clarke, and the one example I've heard (which sat at Ward Music for a year or two, then moved to Long & McQuade when they bought out the old store and lived in their main store here for at least a decade, price going up and down by many thousands of dollars, apparently at random) would lose out against all but the most humble of Kay basses. Properly carved and tuned spruce is about as big a step up from decent factory-carved spruce as is factory spruce from a Kay.

I've worked on only a few of the Chadwicks, and the sacrifice in sound coming from all the bracing and the back cutout is obvious. My interpretation has been that this bass type makes for a good compromise when a gig demands a traditional looking doublebass, and the player needs something they can actually play without hurting themselves or cursing violently while on stage. The intention isn't really to deliver the best sound. That would be asking too much. But for the above requirements, plus ease of travel through airports or even in cars it's hard to beat the Chadwick.

If I were a touring bassist on a budget, I'd no doubt go for a Chadwick in plywood (fearing a split spruce belly - those airline baggage handlers really do try hard to split bellies) then dedicate a substantial budget and effort to amplifying it properly. One guy I did a setup for recently had me bond his Realist to the foot of the bridge to make his setups easier, which I did using Sugru silicone putty, to both bond it and to reinforce the most fragile corner of the thing. Worked out well. But the Realist is a bit narrow tonally - I'd more likely go with a Full Circle (the tiny wire reinforced with a tapered Sugru section at the wheel - something I've been doing with new Full Circle pickups for a couple of years, since I've had to repair broken leads just inside that rivet connection a few times) plus a good directional mic on a gooseneck, then blend between those per venue requirements and band setup.
 
#347
The $400 you save on the plywood can only be worth it for very few of us. It is the bracing as well as the fact that they are made out of student level Shen basses - a durable and solidly adequate choice, if less nuanced. The real point being a one dimensional non-Sprio string is going suck more life out of the bass which has less to give than most.
I think they are a fantastic choice and I think making it out of a Shen is great idea, still. It is a Shen.
 
#350
damonsmith said:
... Sprios need a while to mellow. They are a bit like getting a new pet, they take a while to adjust!...
Click to expand...

Damon, do you notice your Spiros getting bright again after slacking them to disassemble the bass, or extra winding wear at the nut/bridge area? I've got a removable neck Kay, not a Chadwick, but haven't taken the neck off since the first week I had it. Mostly because I haven't needed to as I have a van to travel, but also because I like the Spiros pretty dark/dead sounding and don't want to have to re-break them in. Not an issue?
 
#351
unbrokenchain said:
Damon, do you notice your Spiros getting bright again after slacking them to disassemble the bass, or extra winding wear at the nut/bridge area? I've got a removable neck Kay, not a Chadwick, but haven't taken the neck off since the first week I had it. Mostly because I haven't needed to as I have a van to travel, but also because I like the Spiros pretty dark/dead sounding and don't want to have to re-break them in. Not an issue?
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem to be an issue, but, I don't mind the brightness, especially for acoustic playing. These are almost two years old so they are pretty mellow.
 
#352
I've had the bass for a bit over two years now, the report is:
+ Never been charged yet! I just did Southwest, I did Skycap. Keep it sideways, call it chello, tip the person and say, "it is my only bag and it is under 50lbs". A $10 will do it. Delta has also been fine, Jet Blue is still probably best.
+ I mostly play acoustic, take out the bar and brace and it is just a normal instrument. I'd call the hybrid version a pretty loud bass, projection is no problem.
+ No buzzes or other issues

- Not rich like a fine old bass, it is slowly opening up, though.
- The endpin slips now and then
 
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#354
So, after all the years, miles, dry northern winters and abuse, my bass had developed a bit of a scoop in the neck. The lack of having the fingerboard truly laminated to the maple finally caught up. It was right up near the pegbox, making first position pretty ugly.

So, my luthier routed two CF bars into the neck on either side of the steel channel. Looks killer and the neck is dead straight once again. It’s a dream to play already, and we’re letting things settle a bit before fine tuning the board, nut, etc. You know, let everything get used to it’s new place a bit.

I’m not sure of any major sonic benefits, given that there’s no neck block or any real structure to transmit that tonal goodness downward, but it certainly feels better.

20FB0826-95A5-42D7-B168-B80B41B60543.jpeg
 
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#355
Jon Mush said:
So, after all the years, miles, dry northern winters and abuse, my bass had developed a bit of a scoop in the neck. The lack of having the fingerboard truly laminated to the maple finally caught up. It was right up near the pegbox, making first position pretty ugly.

So, my luthier routed two CF bars into the neck on either side of the steel channel. Looks killer and the neck is dead straight once again. It’s a dream to play already, and we’re letting things settle a bit before fine tuning the board, nut, etc. You know, let everything get used to it’s new place a bit.

I’m not sure of any major sonic benefits, given that there’s no neck block or any real structure to transmit that tonal goodness downward, but it certainly feels better.

View attachment 3346608
Click to expand...

Is this common? Would this happen if the bass was left setup 90% of the time?

I've been looking into a shen hybrid but found a hybrid folding bass for a good price. highly considering it. I would keep it set up most of the time, maybe breaking it down for a trip once or twice a year. Has anyone had any issues with it? And what is this plastic piece people say they are taking out.

@damonsmith would you mind weighing in?
 
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#356
I have not had that issue, but, it seems possible and a great way to fix it. There is a plastic bar that holds the neck and fingerboard inside, you can just take it out and then it is like a normal bass.
Sam Dingle said:
Is this common? Would this happen if the bass was left setup 90% of the time?

I've been looking into a shen hybrid but found a hybrid folding bass for a steal of a price. highly considering it. I would keep it set up most of the time, maybe breaking it down for a trip once or twice a year. Has anyone had any issues with it? And what is this plastic piece people say they are taking out.

@damonsmith would you mind weighing in?
Click to expand...
 
#357
As a bit of an update, so far so good! The neck really doesn’t seem to give me the seasonal problems I used to have. Time will truly tell, but I’m glad we went this route.

Yeah, that whole setup in the interior is easily removed. I do it all the time when the bass is set up for long periods of time.
 
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#358
Hey Guys! i am reopening this thread, because i got a mail from Charlie yesterday. Unfortunately he won't continue making folding basses. I am a bass player from Germany and i really would like to have a folding bass, because i am very often travelling by train, which is not so cool for a normal upright in a usual gig bag. and i also play in loud folk rock band where i have some specs on the plywood bass i use for this band. From time to time we also play in countries like South Korea or India where i was not satisfied bringing my own bass oversize fees, being at the airport 3 hours before flight, very big flight case,...)or using a rental bass.


If theres anyone here in Europe selling his CFB, please DM me :-)
 
#360
KorbinianKugler said:
Hey Guys! i am reopening this thread, because i got a mail from Charlie yesterday. Unfortunately he won't continue making folding basses. I am a bass player from Germany and i really would like to have a folding bass, because i am very often travelling by train, which is not so cool for a normal upright in a usual gig bag. and i also play in loud folk rock band where i have some specs on the plywood bass i use for this band. From time to time we also play in countries like South Korea or India where i was not satisfied bringing my own bass oversize fees, being at the airport 3 hours before flight, very big flight case,...)or using a rental bass.


If theres anyone here in Europe selling his CFB, please DM me :)
Click to expand...

This is sad news. The CFB is a great solution for a lot of us. I wish Charlie nothing but the best, and luck in the future.
 
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