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The Conclusions I've drawn about Micro Bass Heads

uhm, isn't the fx loop on the markbass parallel? also there was a bass block 802 with the fx loop

you totally don't want to run your multi-fx to the front of the amp like all we do? but why (provided you have a clean amp)? is it line-level only?
 
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and this Peavey might not be at home in a recording studio around sensitive mics.

but this “MiniMax has a super loud fan” trope doesn’t seem based in the facts.

Yeah, it’s a use case scenario. Lots of people have small home studios now and have sensitive mics near their bass amps, or are working on editing music with their bass amp at arms distance. No big deal for live shows, but irritating in studios.
 
I'm curious why you feel an fx loop is in any way useful at all for bass?

I'm probably missing a part of the equation here, but as an audio engineer, bassist, and guitarist, I understand that:

- the fx loop generally comes after the amp's preamp/eq/processing section, before the power amp

- the power amp section is generally very neutral (effectively full range, more or less hi fi)

- the preamp section of any amp includes the tone controls (and sometimes a baked in tone/eq that you can't adjust out with the tone controls)

- if your amp includes preamp overdrive capabilities (like most guitar amps do, and occasional bass amps do), the fuzz/overdrive would be before the fx loop, and that same fuzz/overdrive will generally be before the eq section (Tone stack), so that you can cut the treble/fuzz or scoop it etc how you like, again before the fx loop

- overdrive/distortion/fuzz/compressor (in most situations)/wah (more often than not) all sound better before the input to the guitar amp, because again most of those sound better with the tone stack after them, and many people like wah pedals before amp overdrive. Those who don't have an overdrive or distortion pedal as well and place it before the wah pedal, before the amp's input.

- delay/reverb/echo pedals sound better, generally speaking, after the guitar amp's preamp, and this is pretty much THE reason why fx loops were invented for guitar amps.

- yes there are exceptions to everything I outlined... but these are the basic concepts.

Now, when modelling pedals enter the situation, everything is different. Amp modellers are, generally, going to sound best with their outputs sent to the power amp in on your guitar amp, or the fx return (same thing, more or less), if you use amp modelling and if your amp modeller is set for all processing except for cab emulation. There are so many variations in options here I won't get into them. But that main concept does need to be understood - amp modelling generally is designed to replace the PREAMP part of your rig, so everything that gives you your main tone... and optionally also the cab sound you use (in which case your amp is kind of moot other than to make things louder on stage).

********

For Bass, of course we have somewhat different scenarios:

- most bass amps are much more hifi than most guitar amps (exceptions exist, of course)

- some, but not all, bass amps, do have tone stacks/preamp sections that impart their tone on the signal and never allow a full frequency output to go through no matter how you set the tone controls. This is where fx loops do enter the picture for bass amps, generally.

- some bassists use overdrive/distortion pedals. For bassists, MOST bass specific overdrive pedals have built in Low Pass Filters (treble cut) on the output, generally configurable, which means you can put them in front of a hifi bass amp and they will sound great, unlike MOST guitar overdrive/distortion pedals that require the amp to cut the high frequencies. This is because, as noted, many (possibly most) bass amps do not cut the high frequencies nearly as much as most guitar amps do in the preamp section.

- Time/delay/reverb pedals on bass amps don't generally get used much, so fx loops are not common. When used before a bass amp input, the signal is generally hifi enough that everything still sounds great and there is still shimmer etc when desired.

- Bass amp modelling pedals, however, have the same general setup choices as they do for guitarists...They are generally best used before a clean power amp, skipping the preamp entirely, unless you go through the process of making a sound that pre-compensates for your preamp's inherent tone and tone control settings.... something that is generally not a good idea since you cannot then DI that modeller to FOH without it needed the same compensation (so your fx out in your fx loop would be needed), which is just adding a bunch of processing for no reason. So amp modelling generally circumvents the need for a bass amp at all... focusing more on power amp output with, optionally, a neutral preamp.

*********
ok all that background info being described (and probably ignored by everybody here LoL, which is fine, but I needed to explain my thoughts)... what is your intended use for the fx loop for your micro bass head choice? I'm NOT saying that it is wrong... I'm simply asking for my own learning experience to find out what I'm missing from the above conclusions I've made in my own experiences. Probably I'm not using the same processors as you are, and I'm wondering what you use that sounds better with an fx loop!

Cheers!
 
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I have a Peavey MiniMax v.2 as well. Yes, the fan on it is noticeably louder than on any of my past heads. However, for live performances, it's a non-issue. If you're using it in a recording studio, then the noise might be an issue if you're mic-ing the cabinets because the mic could pick up the fan noise.

I love my "pee wee rig" of my Peavey MiniMax and a pair of Bergantino 1x12s. Oftentimes I only need one cabinet. I can haul my head, both cabinets, and a bass in and out of a venue in one trip. Especially useful for city gigs where I need to play upstairs at a venue.
 
I'm curious why you feel an fx loop is in any way useful at all for bass?

I'm probably missing a part of the equation here, but as an audio engineer, bassist, and guitarist, I understand that:

- the fx loop generally comes after the amp's preamp/eq/processing section, before the power amp

- the power amp section is generally very neutral (effectively full range, more or less hi fi)

- the preamp section of any amp includes the tone controls

- if your amp includes preamp overdrive capabilities (like most guitar amps do, and occasional bass amps do), the fuzz/overdrive would be before the fx loop, and that same fuzz/overdrive will generally be before the eq section (Tone stack), so that you can cut the treble/fuzz or scoop it etc how you like, again before the fx loop

- overdrive/distortion/fuzz/compressor (in most situations)/wah (more often than not) all sound better before the input to the guitar amp, because again most of those sound better with the tone stack after them, and many people like wah pedals before amp overdrive. Those who don't have an overdrive or distortion pedal as well and place it before the wah pedal, before the amp's input.

- delay/reverb/echo pedals sound better, generally speaking, after the guitar amp's preamp, and this is pretty much THE reason why fx loops were invented for guitar amps.

- yes there are exceptions to everything I outlined... but these are the basic concepts.

Now, when modelling pedals enter the situation, everything is different. Amp modellers are, generally, going to sound best with their outputs sent to the power amp in on your guitar amp, or the fx return (same thing, more or less), if you use amp modelling and if your amp modeller is set for all processing except for cab emulation. There are so many variations in options here I won't get into them. But that main concept does need to be understood - amp modelling generally is designed to replace the PREAMP part of your rig, so everything that gives you your main tone... and optionally also the cab sound you use (in which case your amp is kind of moot other than to make things louder on stage).

********

For Bass, of course we have somewhat different scenarios:

- most bass amps are much more hifi than most guitar amps (exceptions exist, of course)

- some, but not all, bass amps, do have tone stacks/preamp sections that impart their tone on the signal and never allow a full frequency output to go through no matter how you set the tone controls. This is where fx loops do enter the picture for bass amps, generally.

- some bassists use overdrive/distortion pedals. For bassists, MOST bass specific overdrive pedals have built in Low Pass Filters (treble cut) on the output, generally configurable, which means you can put them in front of a hifi bass amp and they will sound great, unlike MOST guitar overdrive/distortion pedals that require the amp to cut the high frequencies. This is because, as noted, many (possibly most) bass amps do not cut the high frequencies nearly as much as most guitar amps do in the preamp section.

- Time/delay/reverb pedals on bass amps don't generally get used much, so fx loops are not common. When used before a bass amp input, the signal is generally hifi enough that everything still sounds great and there is still shimmer etc when desired.

- Bass amp modelling pedals, however, have the same general setup choices as they do for guitarists...They are generally best used before a clean power amp, skipping the preamp entirely, unless you go through the process of making a sound that pre-compensates for your preamp's inherent tone and tone control settings.... something that is generally not a good idea since you cannot then DI that modeller to FOH without it needed the same compensation (so your fx out in your fx loop would be needed), which is just adding a bunch of processing for no reason. So amp modelling generally circumvents the need for a bass amp at all... focusing more on power amp output with, optionally, a neutral preamp.

*********
ok all that background info being described (and probably ignored by everybody here LoL, which is fine, but I needed to explain my thoughts)... what is your intended use for the fx loop for your micro bass head choice? I'm NOT saying that it is wrong... I'm simply asking for my own learning experience to find out what I'm missing from the above conclusions I've made in my own experiences. Probably I'm not using the same processors as you are, and I'm wondering what you use that sounds better with an fx loop!

Cheers!
Some bassists like an fx loop so they can directly drive the return with a preamp pedal, effectively skipping the amp’s preamp and creating a completely different amp when they want. I used to drive my Mesa TT800 this way with a ME Super 800 pedal. Basically turned the amp into a GK.
 
I was in this near exact desire position, especially cause I also want an FX loop, those options seemed limited unless you get +size +$. Sometimes I wanna bypass the onboard preamp, seems to me amps that wont do that are one trick ponies.

Got a used GB Shuttle 6.0 and am loving it! Has all the features (inc FX loop), is light (3.75 lbs) if a little bigger than some, makes up for the size with a "nice" single tube pre (warm and mild dirt available) and serious power. Fan is not dead quiet, but quieter than the notoriously loud fan amps listed.

With the matched GB cabs it screws on the cab, and you can also dial in really beautiful speaker breakup. So powerful Ive yet to be able to test the "overdriven power tube clip sim" that you only get cranked.

As long as AgedHorse remains in business, it can be serviced at a very fair price (but seems a tank thusfar).
 
It's really too bad that Rick Jones passed :unsure: and Acoustic Image is (for the moment at least) defunct. The Clarus SL has everything the OP was looking for, including 650 watts at 4 ohms and *no fan* whatsoever, as it shunts excess heat to the external shell. It is/was such a terrific amp and so uncoloured that you can use it for a multitude of purposes with the right choice for a front end. Parallel effects loop, really useful DI, the whole shebang.:thumbsup:
 
I'm curious why you feel an fx loop is in any way useful at all for bass?

I'm probably missing a part of the equation here, but as an audio engineer, bassist, and guitarist, I understand that:

- the fx loop generally comes after the amp's preamp/eq/processing section, before the power amp

- the power amp section is generally very neutral (effectively full range, more or less hi fi)

- the preamp section of any amp includes the tone controls (and sometimes a baked in tone/eq that you can't adjust out with the tone controls)

- if your amp includes preamp overdrive capabilities (like most guitar amps do, and occasional bass amps do), the fuzz/overdrive would be before the fx loop, and that same fuzz/overdrive will generally be before the eq section (Tone stack), so that you can cut the treble/fuzz or scoop it etc how you like, again before the fx loop

- overdrive/distortion/fuzz/compressor (in most situations)/wah (more often than not) all sound better before the input to the guitar amp, because again most of those sound better with the tone stack after them, and many people like wah pedals before amp overdrive. Those who don't have an overdrive or distortion pedal as well and place it before the wah pedal, before the amp's input.

- delay/reverb/echo pedals sound better, generally speaking, after the guitar amp's preamp, and this is pretty much THE reason why fx loops were invented for guitar amps.

- yes there are exceptions to everything I outlined... but these are the basic concepts.

Now, when modelling pedals enter the situation, everything is different. Amp modellers are, generally, going to sound best with their outputs sent to the power amp in on your guitar amp, or the fx return (same thing, more or less), if you use amp modelling and if your amp modeller is set for all processing except for cab emulation. There are so many variations in options here I won't get into them. But that main concept does need to be understood - amp modelling generally is designed to replace the PREAMP part of your rig, so everything that gives you your main tone... and optionally also the cab sound you use (in which case your amp is kind of moot other than to make things louder on stage).

********

For Bass, of course we have somewhat different scenarios:

- most bass amps are much more hifi than most guitar amps (exceptions exist, of course)

- some, but not all, bass amps, do have tone stacks/preamp sections that impart their tone on the signal and never allow a full frequency output to go through no matter how you set the tone controls. This is where fx loops do enter the picture for bass amps, generally.

- some bassists use overdrive/distortion pedals. For bassists, MOST bass specific overdrive pedals have built in Low Pass Filters (treble cut) on the output, generally configurable, which means you can put them in front of a hifi bass amp and they will sound great, unlike MOST guitar overdrive/distortion pedals that require the amp to cut the high frequencies. This is because, as noted, many (possibly most) bass amps do not cut the high frequencies nearly as much as most guitar amps do in the preamp section.

- Time/delay/reverb pedals on bass amps don't generally get used much, so fx loops are not common. When used before a bass amp input, the signal is generally hifi enough that everything still sounds great and there is still shimmer etc when desired.

- Bass amp modelling pedals, however, have the same general setup choices as they do for guitarists...They are generally best used before a clean power amp, skipping the preamp entirely, unless you go through the process of making a sound that pre-compensates for your preamp's inherent tone and tone control settings.... something that is generally not a good idea since you cannot then DI that modeller to FOH without it needed the same compensation (so your fx out in your fx loop would be needed), which is just adding a bunch of processing for no reason. So amp modelling generally circumvents the need for a bass amp at all... focusing more on power amp output with, optionally, a neutral preamp.

*********
ok all that background info being described (and probably ignored by everybody here LoL, which is fine, but I needed to explain my thoughts)... what is your intended use for the fx loop for your micro bass head choice? I'm NOT saying that it is wrong... I'm simply asking for my own learning experience to find out what I'm missing from the above conclusions I've made in my own experiences. Probably I'm not using the same processors as you are, and I'm wondering what you use that sounds better with an fx loop!

Cheers!
I have to agree. I have never once needed an FX loop in a bass amp. Maybe I'm old school. My ideal micro amp would be as minimally-featured as possible. I don't even need a DI out on the amp--I always use a separate DI. I'd trade all the bells and whistles for as lightweight, small, and loud as possible (with as quiet operation as is feasible). And, not mentioned in the OP list of features - I want it to be durable. It should be designed so that you really can throw it in a bag and not worry about it if it gets tossed around a bit.
 
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Yeah, it’s a use case scenario. Lots of people have small home studios now and have sensitive mics near their bass amps, or are working on editing music with their bass amp at arms distance. No big deal for live shows, but irritating in studios.
I'd say though the great majority of people working in a home studio (or actually, any studio these days frankly) are not mic'ing a bass amp. And even so, you wouldn't leave anything making noise powered on when it's not in use if there's a chance it's gonna bleed into some other mic. Just turn it off.
Now if your head is noisy enough to actually be an issue when tracking the mic'd bass cab, then yeah, you gotta move the head away from the mic/cab and isolate it anyway.
 
The degree to which this has become a thing for (a large portion of) the bass community makes me sad. :(

I have a hard time imagining why this would bother you, or why you’d even remotely care in the least.

I can at least empathize with tube purists, not that I’m one in the least, but if someone’s going solid state and getting enough power, I can’t even pretend to understand what the issue is.
 
No position on the Squeevee, but I returned an ELF after it was hard to make out the details in the offensively squished output of the amp over the jet engine fan. What garbage. Maybe it was a bad unit, but I'm not trying again. The BB800 is small enough, loud, and dead quiet, all in the right ways.
Except the fan. Sounds like a lawn mower.
I had one and thought it was great...except for the fan.
 
I have a hard time imagining why this would bother you, or why you’d even remotely care in the least.

I can at least empathize with tube purists, not that I’m one in the least, but if someone’s going solid state and getting enough power, I can’t even pretend to understand what the issue is.
Small/light is one thing, but comparing the differences in fractions of an inch to each other for making a buying decision is a bit excessive, imo.

And being indoors right now, I can't shout at the clouds. :cigar:
 
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Except the fan. Sounds like a lawn mower.
I had one and thought it was great...except for the fan.

On the quilter? I'm coming to suspect the fan assembly line has poor quality control. Mine is not loud. Cettainly not like that TE which I'd have used for target practice if I (1) didn't have a refund waiting and (2) had any idea how to use a projectile weapon of any sort.
 
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