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The credibility of Gene Simmons.

I've never seen anyone so crushed as my brother when he was confronted with the fact that bar bands are entertainers/beer salesmen and not artists. A bar owner told us one night if we did any more of that self indulgent wanking we could just pack up at the end of the night and forget the second night we were booked for. He said he wanted simple stuff that got people up dancing and buying beer, not a bunch of 10 minute songs with 3 solos and no vocals. Dumping your bag of guitar/bass/whatever tricks on stage every time you step on one is as boring as an endless string of I-IV-V songs. If not to entertain your audience, what then is your purpose? Just because you are making music the goal is not to be the singular focus of all others who play the same instrument, and artistry is not only about chops and playing ability. It took serious imagination to come up with the total package which is KISS. You have to recognize that it was four musicians who did that instead of some turd in marketing. Think Backstreet Boys for examples of turds in marketing exploiting the music biz. At least with KISS it was our fellow music makers doing the exploiting and not the ones being exploited as is so often the case, or used to be before the world go so much smarter.

Granted, KISS is not the only "brand" who's live stage show is generally more exiting than the music they are making, but they were the first to fully exploit the concept of concert as spectacle, and it paid off very well. I was in Okinawa when I saw my first KISS vid and my initial impression was they would become bigger than Elvis for the same reason Elvis could not be shown from the waist down when he first started appearing on national TV. Elvis had pipes and a decent backup band, but so did most every hillbilly rocker of his time. It was his stage show and some marketing turd that made him king. Tom Parker continued to make money off Elvis even after he was dead, so why is everyone slagging Gene for continuing to make money off the corpse of KISS?

I am somewhat saddened to see Gene turn into some marketing turd who would sell the sweat off his nutz if he thought there was profit in it rather than take his fat stacks and retire, but my dad is still working and he's pushing 80. He's fully retired from both the military and non military government service (department of the army civilian) and draws enough from that and his investments to live more than well, but like he told me one day, "If all I had to look forward to every day was deciding if I wanted to play golf or fish, I'd be insane in less than a month." Some folks just don't feel right if they ain't working and Gene is obviously one of those.

Last..any argument about Gene's skills as a player are really moot at this point. The goal from day one was making money and it's impossible to say that mission was not thoroughly and well accomplished.
 
sometimes, i think playing bass is the least you could do for your band. i mean, so you are a bass player, but there are so many aspects to being in a band that just doesn't involve bass playing, i.e. the way you inspire the band, your personality dynamics within the band, the way you promote the band or stage presence, or your ability to charm the audience - those things are in no way related to musicality and bass playing, but surely they determine the success of the band.

having said that, i think Gene Simmons (as much as i am not a fan) is one hell of a bassist ... not really a super musician... but really, not everyone aspires to be a "great musician" ... some of us just want to be rockstars.
 
when you are very very successful , you dont need credibility.

???

Okay, I suppose there is some truth to that, but it is mis-placed. Many rockstars (and superstars in most other professions, too) have no credibility, too true. That doesn't mean that you don't "need" it.

Gene Simmons, on the other hand, has more credibility than almost anyone I know. Credibility means "the quality of being trusted and believed in" or "the quality of being convincing or believable." Gene Simmons doesn't lie, and makes no bones about the fact that he formed KISS in order to make money. He won't marry because he refuses to break wedding vows, and he knows that he can't keep his schmeckel in his pants. This is the behavior of someone with loads of credibility and integrity.
 
Kwin Smith said:
Yup, and probably would have had a longer career, too...

Longer career? They're still touring. I'm going to see them on July 28th. A new album is coming out in early 2012...

And yes to the charity/military thing, last year they gave one dollar from every ticket to the wounded worrior foundation, every night. Children 14 and under got in free. Gene loves America and the Troops. His mother is a holocoust victim y'know....
 
VitalSigns said:
Longer career? They're still touring. I'm going to see them on July 28th. A new album is coming out in early 2012...

And yes to the charity/military thing, last year they gave one dollar from every ticket to the wounded worrior foundation. Gene loves America and the Troops. His mother is a holocoust victim y'know....

Sarcasm, dude. I'm a KISS fan. I totally dig what they do for the military, too.
 
the poster of Gene Simmons spitting out blood during a concert that hung on my wall as pre teenage boy is partially responsible for me being a musician today. I think its already been said a few times but Kiss (like 'em or not) was as much about the show as about the songs. Great act, no doubt.

Todd :)
 
Gene has always been true to the band, the fans and his instrument. If that's not the hallmark of a credible musician, I'm not sure what is.

If people want to lampoon the spectacle that was Kiss, I think they miss the point. That WAS the point. Kiss was Larger Than Life ( my fav Kiss song btw ) by design. I wouldn't want to try and fill those 10 inch tall platform boots.
 
Agree with many of the above. If you want dexterity, chops and virtuoso fretboard gymnastics, Kiss is not for you. However, most critics of Genes bass playing are probably unaware of the entire back catalogue, where there are some nice little gems hidden away (Larger Than Life, Almost Human, Rock and Roll Hell...no point listing them really).

These days, his egomaniacal capitalist asshat-ery make him an easy target for Internet haters, and as a fan through the late 70's and 80's, that's a bandwagon ive occasionally jumped on too. I've not bought anything since Asylum, which for me was the beginning of the end.

However, here's two things to consider:

1) His solo album in 78 was as bass-lite as you could wish. As the bassist in one of the worlds biggest rock bands, he had an opportunity to showcase his skills as a bass player but, for whatever reason, he chose not to. You may say he didn't have the skills to showcase, but so what?

2) a few years ago, Paul Stanley fell ill just before a big gig and instead of cancelling, Gene decided to play on as a trio. If you are the bass player in a four piece, and your rhythm guitarist and lead vocalist pulled out, would you be confident enough to do that? Purely from a musicians point of view, you cannot dispute that that took balls.

In summary, Gene is not the young, hungry player he was back in the day, but he doesn't need to be. He could not give two hoots about what you, me or anyone else thinks or says. Regarding the OP's point, I think Gene does have pedigree as a player. He is not in the same league technically as most of his peers, but that doesn't matter. He knows his gear, he knows his tone, and most importantly he understands the role of the bass player in his band. Put aside the image of the money grabbing power junkie he has become, and accept that he does the job as the bassist for Kiss just fine thankyou very much.

Hey I read somewhere that he did not play bass on his solo album. He played all guitars. He started out as a guitar player and his bass playing is great because of what he is also doing. Singing and backing. There was a best bass player article way back in the 80's in Guitar Mag. It was down to him and Geddy. Of course Geddy won but that was people's choice. Something to be said.
Also, Geddy had a solo album and the bass playing was also really light. Not what you would expect from him so maybe he just wanted the music or the message to be heard. Gene has always played in the pocket and some lines really are good. He plays with a pick and some bass players dont think thats cool, but it works for him.

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Pitmaster said:
Hey I read somewhere that he did not play bass on his solo album. He played all guitars. He started out as a guitar player and his bass playing is great because of what he is also doing. Singing and backing. There was a best bass player article way back in the 80's in Guitar Mag. It was down to him and Geddy. Of course Geddy won but that was people's choice. Something to be said.
Also, Geddy had a solo album and the bass playing was also really light. Not what you would expect from him so maybe he just wanted the music or the message to be heard. Gene has always played in the pocket and some lines really are good. He plays with a pick and some bass players dont think thats cool, but it works for him.

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He also went through a fingers phase round about the time of Dynasty.
 
To OP: I wonder which modern rock music you listen to with an upfront complex bass. If anything, bass was a lot more interesting in the older days, especially in mainstream. I think you got your facts mixed. I'd really like to hear those examples of modern upfront bass rock music that you speak of.

I don't really mean complex (though I did say it) but what I am trying to convey is bass is a lot more prominent in the mix of modern day music I should say. I'm speaking from the 90's till up about now...like for example you don't listen to a Van Halen record and decide that you want to be a bass player. You listen to an RHCP album and you hear this new and different sound (Flea is probably one of the few slappers that exist in a mainstream band)
it is a prominent sound you are hearing. I love both bands and am no way hating on one and I don't want to drift the conversation into RHCP vs. Van Halen but I am just supporting my statement by saying that a lot of older music has less prominent bass ( No offence! I am a bass player too!) and Kiss seems to be one of those bands. I will admit I am not a huge kiss fan I only have 25 tracks by them on my PC.

And try growing up 1995 till now, the Gene of recent years doesn't come across as a rock hero he comes across as "Oh isn't he that dude with the facepaint and the show on TV?" I mean I know more of him than the average 15 year old would know but it seems like all along he was more interested in the business aspect I mean they do go FAR beyond the typical band merchandise of T shirts and bumper stickers. For heavens sakes they have Kiss Kondoms. Maybe he saw the potentially huge money involved with marketing Kiss once they established a huge core fan base. I don't hate the guy but it just seems to me like he is more into the money aspect (at least now a days anyways) But then again I didn't grow up with Kiss as many other members of the site have.

Ever thought that he really is giving just what he feels the songs need? No more or no less.



How would you feel if your band played some where and a few guys in the audience came up to you and said that they felt that you should have given more to the songs as a bass player.

They don't know what inspired you to play the bass lines that you feel are appropriate for the songs that you created or helped create.


I pay those type of musicians no attention at all.

One of the problems some musician have is that they love to be arm chair bassist.

If that did happen to me, I would probably at least ponder what the people had said and I'd consider some tweaks to the bass lines. And this is true I don't know what inspired Gene but I am just sorta angered with who he is today I mean he freaking bought the cash symbol ($) but stylized with two lines through it...he seems a little arrogant in recent years. Imagine being a teen of modern times you would think he was just some dude who was in a band that used to be in their prime and that he cashed in on the name. Trust me I respect the hell out of him and I think he is actually quite business savy but I opened this thread as a friendly debate...I come in peace :bassist:
 
kiss sux and any 8 year old bass player can play better than gene simmons. just cus someone is a pro doesnt mean their good, kiss was just a gimmick... i would say gimmick band but none of them have any real skill or talent for music but i can say they would be good managers. they are some of the best buisness men in the music buisness.
 
He also went through a fingers phase round about the time of Dynasty.

WOW I learned some thing new, lol! Thought I knew all there was to know about the band. I figured he probably new how to play finger style but just did not for KISS. I did not know that he played finger style around the time of Dynasty. Interesting. I think even though Gene has a large ego, the articles and other places I have seen him, give me the impression that he is a good person. Like I and others have said he does a lot for charity and the troops and does not flaunt that. Even though I disagree with him on the marriage issue, from what I have seen on an episode of Family Jewels (if it is true). He took a lie detector test and passed. Never fooled around on Shannon! Seems to be a caring father of his kids!! I take influences from several different people but not one for all things. The thing I take from him is to bust your ass and work hard and you too can be successful in what it is you want to do. He came from nothing, an immigrant and his mom worked three jobs when he was a little kid to support them. He loves his mum so that is a plus with me, lol!!
 
kiss sux and any 8 year old bass player can play better than gene simmons. just cus someone is a pro doesnt mean their good, kiss was just a gimmick... i would say gimmick band but none of them have any real skill or talent for music but i can say they would be good managers. they are some of the best buisness men in the music buisness.

WOW!!! Listen to the expert here!!! You must be the greatest huh?! I have listened to there music a long time and I have to strongly disagree with you. I think that is a very arrogent mindset to bash other musicians just cause you don't like them. Why are you so hateful?