My twelve year old son has been studying double bass for seven years. About two years ago I bought him a fretless and he's been taking lessons with a jazz bassist. His double bass teacher suggested he bring in some of the music he's been working on so as to see what he's doing on the electric. I asked if I should bring the electric. She said no, that he could just play it all on the double bass. I asked if the two weren't different animals, remembering what I've read on these forums. She basically said that no they're the same animal. She went to Rice, where she studied with Paul Ellison has been and is in some very well respected orchestras and plays electric ( fretted ) as well. What am I missing here? On one hand I've read countless times that these two intruments are quite different and on the other I'm being told they're not. I'd appreciate someone weighing in on this subject.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass The differences in playing an upright versus an electric.
- Thread starter Barongket
- Start date
The teacher probably means that the music your son is working on, can be played on both instruments. Obviously, the approach is different in terms of fingerings and positions, but he can work out what he does on DB with the teacher, on BG when he gets home. She is also trying to save you from taking two instruments to the lesson. I guess.
It kind of depends on what he's doing on electric. For me, there are a lot of things I can play on electric that I can't play on upright. Stuff like bop heads at pitch are obviously much easier on an electric.
I think that because so many things are so much easier on electric, fretted or fretless, than on DB, that kind of helps us not play maybe the same runs and helps give us a different outlook on the DB as well as opens up new ways of expressing ourselves on DB, slides, vibrato, less notes per measure etc. I agree that the teacher was saving you the trouble of bringing 2 instruments etc.
Difficult to answer this honestly without sounding like I'm calling the instructor's abilities into question, and I certainly don't want to give that impression. But they're pretty different instruments. The electric bass guitar is approached in a substantially different manner than the double bass. I'm not sure I could accurately judge anyone's bass guitar playing by observing them tackle the same material on the upright. Others may disagree....
- Jan 24, 2002
- 2,117
- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
There may be some educational value in learning the same material on both instruments, regardless of the technical differences. It may be that she wants to show your child how to approach the same repertoire on the double bass. I imagine they can complement each other on some level.
Not sure what Ellison's got to do with it. I've never heard him talk about electrics in any context.
Not sure what Ellison's got to do with it. I've never heard him talk about electrics in any context.
I started on cello, taught myself fretless BG in high school, then took up DB in college. I think there are two contexts in which it is typically said that BG and DB are different beasts.
1. When someone who plays one instrument, wants to start learning the other.
2. The fact that each instrument has tones and playing styles that are difficult to reproduce on the other.
If your son already plays both instruments, then the first issue is moot. In terms of the second issue, he can try his BG material on the DB and see how it goes. No harm in trying. It can be interesting and fun to let the playing styles of the two instruments influence one another.
1. When someone who plays one instrument, wants to start learning the other.
2. The fact that each instrument has tones and playing styles that are difficult to reproduce on the other.
If your son already plays both instruments, then the first issue is moot. In terms of the second issue, he can try his BG material on the DB and see how it goes. No harm in trying. It can be interesting and fun to let the playing styles of the two instruments influence one another.
I mentioned Paul Ellison because I wanted to establish her credentials. What I took from our brief conversation, ( she had another student to teach), was that the fingerings were the same.
That may be true if you apply DB fingerings to the slab, but all the other issues.... pulling a sound out of the bass, stance and posture, etc... a whole bunch of stuff.
That's before you address that pesky bow issue.
That's before you address that pesky bow issue.
No, not even close. In lower position there is some crossover but that's about it. I won't bore you with technical specifics but they aren't the same.
Probably she's teaching a semandl technique? I learned that way on the bg which is not as prevalent as the one finger per fret method. That's where I've always heard that they are different. I think that learning fretless was easier for me b/c I started with that technique...not as out of tune. I don't play the double, though.
She teaches the Rabbath, Vance method. She's taught at the Vance workshops, where I had the pleasure of having a beer with Francóis himself.
I wouldn't look to far into it. She sounds like she must know what she is doing. She probobly just wondered how well he would be able to play the electric stuff on upright. If it turns out to be a big problem, there are a lot of great teachers in Cleveland who all know what there doing. I have been studying in Cleveland for a couple of years and it has been really benificial to my playing.
I'm not questioning her ability as a teacher. Her husband plays double bass in the Cleveland Orchestra. She's played in Apollos's Fire and plays in City Music. she's a fantastic teacher and my son is doing really well. I, as a non-musician, am trying to be enlightened as to why, other than the obvious differences, these two animals are considered to be so different by so many contributors to this forum.
My teacher really downplayed the differences between the instruments when I transitioned from fretless. Aren't they really more alike than different? Especially outside the "chops" territory.
She is probably trying to capitalize on progress that your son is making on the electric that aren't being actively pursued during her lessons. If he's going after some interesting rhythms on the electric, why not, on the DB, strike while the iron is hot?
She is probably trying to capitalize on progress that your son is making on the electric that aren't being actively pursued during her lessons. If he's going after some interesting rhythms on the electric, why not, on the DB, strike while the iron is hot?
Barongket said:
I think I know who youre talking about actually. I don know her name but I have met her husband (whom I also don't know the name of) but I do know a couple of her students who are thrilled with her teaching. I play with them in the Cleveland orchestra youth orhestra and they generally do pretty well in the section. A student of hers was principle last year and there is another one of her students who is a good section player. I wouldn't even question it unless she does some drastic change like making him stop playing electric or only play electric music on upright or something. It could be a nice exersize to "sight read" previouseoy learned music on a different instrument and I would guess that is what she is going for.
Like I said before, the teachers in Cleveland are really fantastic. The reason I chose my teacher was because I favored his technique approach over the other teachers I had lessons with.
Oh and to answer your question I think the reason double bassists act that way is to discourage electric bassists from attempting to start playing the bass without any prior knowledge of theinstrument. Many times Electric bassists say they are new and on a budget and ask where to start and thatis the most eficcient response. Buy a playable bass that is stable and get lessons. They are very different instruments but there is nothing wrong with theteachers idea. Hope thatclears it up a bit.
A 5 year old on DB? Wow! At twelve he must be interested in pop/Rock/??? music and the ebg will be his instrument of choice. I think that you should follow the teacher's advice. She may want to take him the "classical" route, if you will, through jazz and get him to experience it on the db via jazz standards.
You're a good dad to be following up on him. Congrats.
Whatever you read here is a compilation of opinions with a few facts every now and again, however, the consensus seems to be that going from db to ebg is easier. I play both and have to practice on both to keep my chops up. Your son will figure it out.
You're a good dad to be following up on him. Congrats.
Whatever you read here is a compilation of opinions with a few facts every now and again, however, the consensus seems to be that going from db to ebg is easier. I play both and have to practice on both to keep my chops up. Your son will figure it out.
