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Double Bass The different ways of approaching Improvisation..

#102
Ed Fuqua said:
I'm not sure why you sent me a private message, if you wanted me to respond here. My response to your message should suffice.
Click to expand...

Ed. You ask why I sent a PM. When I suraci "wanted " i to respond here ?
Your logic escapes me.
Pm means private. I never wished the pm made public
Your logic in this case , does not speak well for your thought processes in general.
I tried to overcome your guarded attitude here
By sending a PM. That did not penetrate , so for now, we are As the saying goes, done .
 
#104
Rarely have I heard such an argumentative defense of not using a device that has been an accepted and proven method of helping musicians develop not only a basic time sense but so much more. i.e. phrasing, feel, technique.

I've read this thread with amusement. Kudos to Ed Foosball who has done a wonderful job of trying to illuminate why using this tool should be part of any serious musicians practice time.

Suraci, whoever you are, you seem to love to hear the sound of your own voice, or rather see your printed words on a public forum. You are not hearing/listening to what very accomplished players are trying to tell you in order to help you become a better musician.

If you are not trolling, I see no reason why you wouldn't want to at least try out these ideas. Instead of hovering over your computer terminal breathlessly waiting to mount some very weak defense of why you do not wish to employ this accepted device during your practice time; provided you do devote some time to practice. :cool:

Could you fill out your profile? Thanks in advance.
 
#105
Ask yourself this as yet unaddressed question

To what extent did the masters of swing utilize the metronome
The question stands regardless of my ability in music
I have cited Mike Longo as my authority
He has played with a who's who of jazz luminaries

My question is a valid one
 
#106
suraci said:
Ask yourself this as yet unaddressed question

To what extent did the masters of swing utilize the metronome
The question stands regardless of my ability in music
I have cited Mike Longo as my authority
He has played with a who's who of jazz luminaries

My question is a valid one
Click to expand...

I for one do not know whether the masters of swing used metronomes. There is clearly a number of accomplished players and teachers here who do.

I have Longo's book on sight-reading jazz rhythms, and nothing that I can find in there is incompatible with the use of a metronome as the basis for the underlying pulse, although he does not mention them directly. He does talk about tapping a beat with the feet to generate this pulse, and the importance of maintaining it while practicing at the tempo required for you to read the most difficult rhythmic sections of a piece or exercise. It would seem on the face of it that a metronome is the simplest and least biased/biasing method for achieving the pulse against which your polyrhythms are established. That is my very unaccomplished and amateur reading, at least. I am willing to be corrected.
 
#107
The metronome is just a freaking tool -- just like a tuner, a music stand, or any other piece of hardware or apparatus you can think of that might be associated with music. To cultivate an opinion -- and to continue to hammer on it in this discussion in a kind of obtuse, off-topic way -- that the metronome-as-tool is somehow evil, that it will produce musical malnutrition in a musician, seems to me to be quite unmusical. Unmusical in the sense that it focuses in on one tiny aspect of musical development. It's just a tool!! The music comes out of the musician, the whole person. It so happens that many jazz players feel it has been useful for them and would likely be of use to people learning. Has anyone here said it's always required, in every instance, no exceptions? They have not.

What kind of workman is it again who blames his tools?

And those masters of swing you refer to? To suggest that they somehow eschewed 'nomes, didn't need them, didn't use them, would have been stunted with them? First time in 50 years I've heard that opinion. Any biographical references you'd care to adduce?
 
#108
Treyzer said:
Rarely have I heard such an argumentative defense of not using a device that has been an accepted and proven method of helping musicians develop not only a basic time sense but so much more. i.e. phrasing, feel, technique.

I've read this thread with amusement. Kudos to Ed Foosball who has done a wonderful job of trying to illuminate why using this tool should be part of any serious musicians practice time.

Suraci, whoever you are, you seem to love to hear the sound of your own voice, or rather see your printed words on a public forum. You are not hearing/listening to what very accomplished players are trying to tell you in order to help you become a better musician.

If you are not trolling, I see no reason why you wouldn't want to at least try out these ideas. Instead of hovering over your computer terminal breathlessly waiting to mount some very weak defense of why you do not wish to employ this accepted device during your practice time; provided you do devote some time to practice. :cool:

Could you fill out your profile? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


Oh one last thing Ickerus, please remember not to fly too close to the sun!
 
#109
suraci said:
Has anyone discussed this with people like Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Richard Davis, Buster Williams, Anthony Jackson,
Buddy Rich, Art Blakey, Alan Dawson, Tony Williams, Steve Jordan, Bernard Purdie, Steve Gadd?
Click to expand...

Whether or not they used a metronome they all spent years playing with great players with incredible time. If you are not able to do that the metronome is a good tool.
I wouldn't advocate using it all the time or as any sort of crutch but it is NOTHING to be so afraid of.

If you don't even have a soundfile, that is going to mean you don't have any comercially available recordings - you are arguing with guys who do.
 
#111
GrowlerBox said:
I for one do not know whether the masters of swing used metronomes. There is clearly a number of accomplished players and teachers here who do.

I have Longo's book on sight-reading jazz rhythms, and nothing that I can find in there is incompatible with the use of a metronome as the basis for the underlying pulse, although he does not mention them directly. He does talk about tapping a beat with the feet to generate this pulse, and the importance of maintaining it while practicing at the tempo required for you to read the most difficult rhythmic sections of a piece or exercise. It would seem on the face of it that a metronome is the simplest and least biased/biasing method for achieving the pulse against which your polyrhythms are established. That is my very unaccomplished and amateur reading, at least. I am willing to be corrected.
Click to expand...
One of my teachers studied with intensively with Mike Longo. Til this day, he still uses a metronome and espouses practicing with it. I'm unconvinced such a narrow view should be taken as by our one outlier.
 
#112
hdiddy said:
One of my teachers studied with intensively with Mike Longo. Til this day, he still uses a metronome and espouses practicing with it. I'm unconvinced such a narrow view should be taken as by our one outlier.
Click to expand...

In born talent is the elephant in this living room forum

I am being worn down by the prevailing hot air here on this topic
I have brought up various aspects , people of Ghana, masters of swing, mike longo's remarks to me

I have not been taken seriously for whatever reasons

So have at it with your methods
Just remember we are not all born swingers.
Maybe metronome helps Good luck with your musical progress and
No hard feelings. I am done beatIng this drum let the computer do it
 
#118
Just cause I said I would, here's a couple of clips from a duo session; me and a pianist playing with a metronome. The ballad is something that neither of us had played in a few years and there's some warts as we try to hear our way through it ( I don't think I ever nailed the first ending) but the piano chorus after the bass solo is pretty happening. On the second tune, I think it's a good example of following your ear instead of getting stuck on what it says in The Real Book...
MR
WHAT IS THIS

Oh this was a few years back, May of 2005....
 
#120
My teacher says No on using it, and Metheny has said yes
This is 100% predictable, whether teaching music or nutrition or Wall Street

My question remains unanswered
What role did metronome play aiding groove or steadiness in Bachs Ravels Louis armstrongs Basies ray browns red garlands birds dizzy s life?
 

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