I pulled out "This is our Music". Awesome album, but it is just wailing blues material! I really don't hear what the uproar about Ornette was. If you like melody, you should like his music!
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Double Bass The different ways of approaching Improvisation..
- Thread starter gai113
- Start date
I am not sure how you apply the term "soundfile// link" and the rest of it. Is there a place in the forum where members have their soundfiles all in one place??
But I found a youtube of my playing back in the 1970's
here it is:
Eumir Deodato -
This is a unique track esp for me
I shared playing on this track of a great old standard, with Tony Levin.
No click track.
We each played arrangement from top to coda fine.
Then producer picks and chooses which part goes where.
It is so long ago, that I am a little unclear about one of the parts, as to who played it.
It is safe to say I played the head from the beginning and at the end and out.
The solo I can still remember Tony's cool solo where he played three notes at the same time.. and so Levin's solo is on the final take.
I suspect that most of the tune is Tony, but I am not sure.
Nice recording, but....
Wait... you're saying that the final cut was a mix of sections that the producer put together, meaning it's engineered and edited? Sorry, but it's not a really good example of your ability to play time, esp with so much stuff and drumming going on in the background.
Regardless, I did enjoy it for what it was.
Wait... you're saying that the final cut was a mix of sections that the producer put together, meaning it's engineered and edited? Sorry, but it's not a really good example of your ability to play time, esp with so much stuff and drumming going on in the background.
Regardless, I did enjoy it for what it was.
I played on that recording yes
If you listen carefully you hear two different Tones and styles
Tony Played the bass solo
I played the melody both at top and at end
And I suspect levin also played for other soloists
If that is not adequate for you
On the same youtube page, I play ALL of the bass track on the Steely Dan tune,
"Do It Again", from the same session as the "Moonlight Serenade" session.
To be clear... I never was a studio heavy, like Levin, Cobham etc. I held my own, but the creme de la creme of bass players, always had a little something extra that I never achieved. I played bass function well, but they played it at least as well, often better, and ADDED a little creative footprint on the tracks they did. I have great admiration for Chuck Rainey, Levin, Jamerson, Miller, Jaco, Weeks, Dunn etc because they were the top cats.
If you listen carefully you hear two different Tones and styles
Tony Played the bass solo
I played the melody both at top and at end
And I suspect levin also played for other soloists
If that is not adequate for you
On the same youtube page, I play ALL of the bass track on the Steely Dan tune,
"Do It Again", from the same session as the "Moonlight Serenade" session.
To be clear... I never was a studio heavy, like Levin, Cobham etc. I held my own, but the creme de la creme of bass players, always had a little something extra that I never achieved. I played bass function well, but they played it at least as well, often better, and ADDED a little creative footprint on the tracks they did. I have great admiration for Chuck Rainey, Levin, Jamerson, Miller, Jaco, Weeks, Dunn etc because they were the top cats.
Agreed, but the cat was making sessionss Tony Levin was on in '70s. It means he is not a kid, maybe there is a language issue?
In any case, it adds some weight to his perspective for sure.
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
HUFFDADDY - that ain't really the point, he's got a point of view, there's an example of what that point of view sounds like. I got a point of view, there are examples of what that sounds like. It's up to each individual to decide what point of view has the most meaning for them.
"language issue"? RegardIng which, metronome or my description of old cuts I was fortunate enough to play on?
Listen guys, I am not here to rain on Joe Solomons ideas on playing
He was a respected player teacheri if my memory serves
If metronome or ANything. is working for you. By all means hang on to those practices.
Our NOTES, OUR rhythms were not touched, the only editing was minimal as far to two bass parts is concerned.
Either you hear one bass player or in another section another bass player. This was done in the olden days of tape; so editing is limited.
Editing was much more "honest" the further back in time you travel. I don't know what I said that confused you about the record date. No one altered our playing at all.
I don't think I am playing anything killer or special.. I am just playing the role of bass player, with Billy Cobham on drums I suspect, or Rick Marotta.
Playing music involves playing with humans... which is what we all mostly do.. and what I did. Where is your issue with this recording? If you don't care for the style, that's cool, but the players were mostly the best players available at that moment- with perhaps suraci as an exception!
It is been pounded into my head that it is abundantly and clearly stated here, the why, of practicing with a metronome a portion of ones practice time... then why do you state: "Sorry, but it's not a really good example of your ability to play time, esp with so much stuff and drumming going on in the background" ? I am confused by this remark. I am playing with Cobham, Deodato, Tropea's Bassini's collective time, not a metronome's. What choice did I have? If I had been practicing intensively with a metronome, how would that alter this recording... in the sense of what? making it more metronomic? I am genuinely confused by your statement.
Ok I think whats needed here are a couple more definitions to clarify things... and pardon me but I'm purely armchair quarterbacking here. It's great that you have played with the likes of Levin and Cobham, many of us aspire to play at that level.
Anyways, I see time in two forms, though they may be interrelated.
1) Abililty to ride a groove and play in the pocket and contribute to a communal sense of time. I guess you can call it an external pulse?
2) Internal pulse (your ability to keep the pulse by yourself without assistance) and being able to hear and play stuff outside of that internal pulse but still be able to keep it.
Your recordings are a great example of #1. There is a huge communal groove and all you gotta do is jump in and surf it and add to the emotional energy being created. There's lots of rhythmic stuff going on, so it's a matter of blending into and make it even more powerful that it is without you. Metronomic time really takes a backseat playing in a pocket. Your goal is to keep the groove flowing, not to play time like a machine.
In terms of my own expectations when someone touts they're time is superb, I'd like to hear someone play in a relatively unassisted manner - that they're able to create a groove, but also be able to play against that very groove and still keep an extremely strong internal pulse (meaning they don't rush or drag).
IMO, both are in a way separate skills. When I practice with a metronome, it's in an attempt to strengthen my internal pulse. So that's why in terms of an example of playing with good time, it wasn't what I was looking for. I want to hear ppls ability to drive the bus and play timekeeper. I suppose some people can pick up a strong internal pulse by playing with someone else who has one, but I think that's an attempt at learning by osmosis. Do it enough and yes it "might" sink in.
Even in that Adam Rafferty vid you linked to, he's playing solo and creating the groove unassisted, he's generating his own pocket but doesn't really play against the rhythms he has created. IMO, things are a little easier if you can express the pulse externally by playing it. It's harder if you're not treading water. I'll try to find a good example of someone expressing an strong internal time.
Anyways, I see time in two forms, though they may be interrelated.
1) Abililty to ride a groove and play in the pocket and contribute to a communal sense of time. I guess you can call it an external pulse?
2) Internal pulse (your ability to keep the pulse by yourself without assistance) and being able to hear and play stuff outside of that internal pulse but still be able to keep it.
Your recordings are a great example of #1. There is a huge communal groove and all you gotta do is jump in and surf it and add to the emotional energy being created. There's lots of rhythmic stuff going on, so it's a matter of blending into and make it even more powerful that it is without you. Metronomic time really takes a backseat playing in a pocket. Your goal is to keep the groove flowing, not to play time like a machine.
In terms of my own expectations when someone touts they're time is superb, I'd like to hear someone play in a relatively unassisted manner - that they're able to create a groove, but also be able to play against that very groove and still keep an extremely strong internal pulse (meaning they don't rush or drag).
IMO, both are in a way separate skills. When I practice with a metronome, it's in an attempt to strengthen my internal pulse. So that's why in terms of an example of playing with good time, it wasn't what I was looking for. I want to hear ppls ability to drive the bus and play timekeeper. I suppose some people can pick up a strong internal pulse by playing with someone else who has one, but I think that's an attempt at learning by osmosis. Do it enough and yes it "might" sink in.
Even in that Adam Rafferty vid you linked to, he's playing solo and creating the groove unassisted, he's generating his own pocket but doesn't really play against the rhythms he has created. IMO, things are a little easier if you can express the pulse externally by playing it. It's harder if you're not treading water. I'll try to find a good example of someone expressing an strong internal time.
Ok... you feel or think, in a dual concept of time keeping, internal and external. Why do you appear to assume that I am only following the communal "bus" of Cobham and company, as distinct from my time? To describe a thing, is an art in and of itself. The description is of value.. in that light I say, playing groove is more a matter of give and take.. dominating subtly and following also. It is a human process. And to just follow, is a terrible idea.
What I think happens when I play is this ( I have never verbalized this, so... ) and it is a complicated series of possibilities, to be sure.
I seldom feel other people in a band who feel precisely what I feel. By that I mean, there is seldom total disagreement about time, just spots in the ongoing time flow. Not "all or nothing", but "spots".
I often feel a kind of compromise is happening in real time ( Is that a pun- real time?).
If I feel groove is getting "lazy"- I do one of a few things
1. I push against the time, which may or may not have an effect, depending god knows what factors.
2. I "dig myself", I check to see if maybe the time feel/ steadiness is ok, and does NOT need to be goosed, in other words, I check to see if I am wrong.
3. I also can consciously relax deeply, while playing.. I am trying to tune into the groove that is not quite perfect.
4. If this is more than a one shot deal- gig, or more often ( regular gig ) than an infrequent gig, I may set about to "boss the beat around", if I deem my time the strongest time, and if I eventually over the passages of weeks, feel this drastic remedy is needed.
5. I have played with some heavies who seemed to have soooo much space between their beats, that I was knocked off my game... I had to figure out how to play with this very relaxed feeling of a drummer in question. In other words, a quick analysis suggests to me they are not dragging.. get with their program!
6. I do NOT commit to a tempo in a band until it feels like it is beginning to gel; usually 4 to 8 bars, hopefully less bars- I do not slavishly commit to an originating tempo ( count off ) for various reasons: a) If groove just feels it is not yet "clicking", b) if a new singer is involved, and who knows what that will bring.
7. I like tempos to not be so quick that I have trouble perceiving the "meat" on the groove. From playing with some top drummers on occasion, I realized that slightly slower tempos ( relative to what I assume is the tempo ) are actually in many cases, cool, a way to put extra kick in the beat. I favor slightly slower tempos for this reason... also because of dance reasons or lyrics reasons.
9. I cannot define it, but session players play time analogous to a underhand softball throw, compared to jazz which feels more overhand, hyper, less room between the beats.
Another analogy, is session players lob the ball ( beats to you ) to you. To play session work you had to quickly pick up on this relaxed steady time feel.
**** If drummer tended to rush, to be frank, I have never figured out how to truly deal with this successfully. If a drummer seems to be behind, it can be almost fun to push all night and thus play more busily, but musically
Jazz seemed more on top than pop; though much OLDER jazz could be very laid back, easier to dance to because of the time feel, not just the degree of complexity.
This was fun to write down, a first for me.
Moderators If this post is considered too distant from how to improvise.. I can start a new thread. I am really enjoying putting my long withheld thoughts about the process of trying to groove ( when it doesn't just "happen" aka magic ) on cyber "paper"!
What I think happens when I play is this ( I have never verbalized this, so... ) and it is a complicated series of possibilities, to be sure.
I seldom feel other people in a band who feel precisely what I feel. By that I mean, there is seldom total disagreement about time, just spots in the ongoing time flow. Not "all or nothing", but "spots".
I often feel a kind of compromise is happening in real time ( Is that a pun- real time?).
If I feel groove is getting "lazy"- I do one of a few things
1. I push against the time, which may or may not have an effect, depending god knows what factors.
2. I "dig myself", I check to see if maybe the time feel/ steadiness is ok, and does NOT need to be goosed, in other words, I check to see if I am wrong.
3. I also can consciously relax deeply, while playing.. I am trying to tune into the groove that is not quite perfect.
4. If this is more than a one shot deal- gig, or more often ( regular gig ) than an infrequent gig, I may set about to "boss the beat around", if I deem my time the strongest time, and if I eventually over the passages of weeks, feel this drastic remedy is needed.
5. I have played with some heavies who seemed to have soooo much space between their beats, that I was knocked off my game... I had to figure out how to play with this very relaxed feeling of a drummer in question. In other words, a quick analysis suggests to me they are not dragging.. get with their program!
6. I do NOT commit to a tempo in a band until it feels like it is beginning to gel; usually 4 to 8 bars, hopefully less bars- I do not slavishly commit to an originating tempo ( count off ) for various reasons: a) If groove just feels it is not yet "clicking", b) if a new singer is involved, and who knows what that will bring.
7. I like tempos to not be so quick that I have trouble perceiving the "meat" on the groove. From playing with some top drummers on occasion, I realized that slightly slower tempos ( relative to what I assume is the tempo ) are actually in many cases, cool, a way to put extra kick in the beat. I favor slightly slower tempos for this reason... also because of dance reasons or lyrics reasons.
9. I cannot define it, but session players play time analogous to a underhand softball throw, compared to jazz which feels more overhand, hyper, less room between the beats.
Another analogy, is session players lob the ball ( beats to you ) to you. To play session work you had to quickly pick up on this relaxed steady time feel.
**** If drummer tended to rush, to be frank, I have never figured out how to truly deal with this successfully. If a drummer seems to be behind, it can be almost fun to push all night and thus play more busily, but musically
Jazz seemed more on top than pop; though much OLDER jazz could be very laid back, easier to dance to because of the time feel, not just the degree of complexity.
This was fun to write down, a first for me.
Moderators If this post is considered too distant from how to improvise.. I can start a new thread. I am really enjoying putting my long withheld thoughts about the process of trying to groove ( when it doesn't just "happen" aka magic ) on cyber "paper"!
Ok I think whats needed here are a couple more definitions to clarify things... and pardon me but I'm purely armchair quarterbacking here. It's great that you have played with the likes of Levin and Cobham, many of us aspire to play at that level. THANK YOU
Anyways, I see time in two forms, though they may be interrelated. YES, INTERRELATED
1) Abililty to ride a groove and play in the pocket and contribute to a communal sense of time. I guess you can call it an external pulse? I AM PLAYING ALONG WITH your hypothetical because we may all learn something.
2) Internal pulse (your ability to keep the pulse by yourself without assistance) and being able to hear and play stuff outside of that internal pulse but still be able to keep it.
SO, this "hypothetical", sounds like a solo situation, Yes??
One thought comes up... when one records, do you think there are those exceptional times when you Are ALONE??
Your recordings are a great example of #1. There is a huge communal groove and all you gotta do is jump in and surf it and add to the emotional energy being created.-- With respect, that sounds like an over simplification of an admittedly complex phenom!
Question for you, why do certain players get most of the work ( leaving political skills, diplomacy, hygiene out of it
There's lots of rhythmic stuff going on, so it's a matter of blending into and make it even more powerful that it is without you. Metronomic time really takes a backseat playing in a pocket. Your goal is to keep the groove flowing, not to play time like a machine. -- SO, if your goal is metronomic, as opposed to playing interactively, the metronome way, is the way. My goal is working as much as I can. To work a lot, I have to "Feel a little bit better than the other bass players". Leaving personality out of it, I always asked myself, why does x player hire you over another player, or why is Anthony Jackson preferred most of the time?--
In terms of my own expectations when someone touts they're time is superb, ( CURIOSITY, WHO TOUTS THEIR HORN??? ) I'd like to hear someone play in a relatively unassisted manner - that they're able to create a groove, but also be able to play against that very groove and still keep an extremely strong internal pulse (meaning they don't rush or drag).
IMO, both are in a way separate skills. When I practice with a metronome, it's in an attempt to strengthen my internal pulse. So that's why in terms of an example of playing with good time, it wasn't what I was looking for. I want to hear ppls ability to drive the bus and play timekeeper. I suppose some people can pick up a strong internal pulse by playing with someone else who has one, but I think that's an attempt at learning by osmosis. Do it enough and yes it "might" sink in.
QUESTION WHY WOULD "SOMEONE ELSE" WISH TO PLAY WITH A WEAKER PULSE PLAYER?
Even in that Adam Rafferty vid you linked to, he's playing solo and creating the groove unassisted, he's generating his own pocket but doesn't really play against the rhythms he has created. QUESTION HOW DO YOU DEFINE, PLAYING AGAINST HIS OWN RHYTHMS? IMO, things are a little easier if you can express the pulse externally by playing it. It's harder if you're not treading water. I'll try to find a good example of someone expressing an strong internal time.
I am hoping this is easy on the eyes, my interjecting remarks with BOLDFACE
I love this topic, is this cool to have within this thread about different approaches to improvisation???
A musician was talking about divergent time feels in general, and the topic switched to Count Basie band's feel. The person said, at one point, the band sounded like it was all over the place... meaning different time feels at the same time... THEN the magic happens, where these divergent ( ahead, behind, etc ) times somehow click; and look out.... we have all heard about the great swing feel of Basie band. I heard this discussion recently ( I am still learning about grooving in a band ) and I found it exciting to contemplate. Discuss!
I was talking not necessarily about playing in solo situations. Lets put it this way, good percussionists I know with experience in the afro-cuban or afro-brazilian rhythms are able to spin rhythms much like what Mike Longo is talking about in respect to Dizzy. Sometimes they will play polyrhythmic figures that go against a clave on purpose. Anyone playing with them who has a weak rhythm will easily get turned around.
Playing jazz, say even in a bass solo situation can be very similar. Even at my level, if I know my time is solid and play some off-rhythmic stuff, I can throw the drummer off because maybe he isn't that experienced and can't hold his ground. The ideal situation is that we're always playing with interactive time - there's no argument there.
But we also get in situations where we're forced to play with people who have a weaker sense of time than we do. Situations where you know that if you play with interactive time, the whole band will start to fall apart. Times when interactive time feel won't work.
IMO, the best solutions in times like that is try to have an even better sense of feel and time to sweep them off their weaknesses. After all, that's what some of the recognized players that I've had the luck to play with do for me. IMO, to do that, you have to have a superior sense of time, and strong enough that you won't get swayed by someone else screwing up or intentionally playing against what you're trying to do.
I'm going through some of Longo's DVDs right now and I like alot of what he has to say - it all seems very valid. In some senses, I feel like he's also touching on things that I'm describing. In anything I've heard so far, I don't hear anything yet that says he's stoutly against using a mechanical metronome. But you're the one who's been the student with him so I don't know his disposition. Yours seems to be totally against using it altogether for any purpose. At least thats my impression.
Playing jazz, say even in a bass solo situation can be very similar. Even at my level, if I know my time is solid and play some off-rhythmic stuff, I can throw the drummer off because maybe he isn't that experienced and can't hold his ground. The ideal situation is that we're always playing with interactive time - there's no argument there.
But we also get in situations where we're forced to play with people who have a weaker sense of time than we do. Situations where you know that if you play with interactive time, the whole band will start to fall apart. Times when interactive time feel won't work.
IMO, the best solutions in times like that is try to have an even better sense of feel and time to sweep them off their weaknesses. After all, that's what some of the recognized players that I've had the luck to play with do for me. IMO, to do that, you have to have a superior sense of time, and strong enough that you won't get swayed by someone else screwing up or intentionally playing against what you're trying to do.
I'm going through some of Longo's DVDs right now and I like alot of what he has to say - it all seems very valid. In some senses, I feel like he's also touching on things that I'm describing. In anything I've heard so far, I don't hear anything yet that says he's stoutly against using a mechanical metronome. But you're the one who's been the student with him so I don't know his disposition. Yours seems to be totally against using it altogether for any purpose. At least thats my impression.
suraci thanks for all words and thoughts..
and dude dont worry about ppl;
You played with Billy Cobham... nuff said... lol
The reallly great masters I've met in real life have been the most humble....
They dont look down on begginners from a mountain top saying look at me I'm here and you down there... Or i can play much better than you so therefore im a "special" or different than you....
I love when really great players ecourage beginners to play with them and have patience and care...
Its like a child learning how to speak english what are th adults going to ignore him?
Ive learned alot from this thread and have decided to just use EVERYTHING to my advantage.. why be limited by one way when you can learn form all ways
cheers
and dude dont worry about ppl;
You played with Billy Cobham... nuff said... lol
The reallly great masters I've met in real life have been the most humble....
They dont look down on begginners from a mountain top saying look at me I'm here and you down there... Or i can play much better than you so therefore im a "special" or different than you....
I love when really great players ecourage beginners to play with them and have patience and care...
Its like a child learning how to speak english what are th adults going to ignore him?
Ive learned alot from this thread and have decided to just use EVERYTHING to my advantage.. why be limited by one way when you can learn form all ways
cheers
I apologize in particular to Ed Fuqua... on rereading this whole thread, I think I got a tad defensive. So... Sorry about that.
The OT is differnt ways to approach improvisation- I hope it is not felt by original poster that I have pulled the topic too far away from its crux. I just feel that a bass players ability to groove with whomever he finds on the bandstand is critical to his employment as a bass player.
The biggest issue every musician in the 21st century faces is lack of work. I grew up in a very busy work environment. A great way to learn about music is to play 6 days a week, as I did for decades.
This activity has ceased rather rudely.. and it pains me personally, and for all musicians who seek to make noble music.
My point about metronome is, if it helps you groove with other people, keep it up.
I did it without that method... and I still feel it was not prominent in the masters of the 20th century. It was used mainly to know what 120 beats per min sounded like, to follow your progress with an etude etc.
I don't really know why Mike Longo definitely said "No" to its use, I just know he played with a very grooving band, whose leader was the orginator of the method that Mike taught me. But frankly, I could groove before I used Mike's method.
I feel in this 21st century world, certain fundamentals have been altered. I am here to represent those older values, fundamentals.
Improvise to your hearts content, but never forget that groove is primary.
Maybe a compromise... try Mike's method and the Lenny Tristano Joe Salomon methods?
The OT is differnt ways to approach improvisation- I hope it is not felt by original poster that I have pulled the topic too far away from its crux. I just feel that a bass players ability to groove with whomever he finds on the bandstand is critical to his employment as a bass player.
The biggest issue every musician in the 21st century faces is lack of work. I grew up in a very busy work environment. A great way to learn about music is to play 6 days a week, as I did for decades.
This activity has ceased rather rudely.. and it pains me personally, and for all musicians who seek to make noble music.
My point about metronome is, if it helps you groove with other people, keep it up.
I did it without that method... and I still feel it was not prominent in the masters of the 20th century. It was used mainly to know what 120 beats per min sounded like, to follow your progress with an etude etc.
I don't really know why Mike Longo definitely said "No" to its use, I just know he played with a very grooving band, whose leader was the orginator of the method that Mike taught me. But frankly, I could groove before I used Mike's method.
I feel in this 21st century world, certain fundamentals have been altered. I am here to represent those older values, fundamentals.
Improvise to your hearts content, but never forget that groove is primary.
Maybe a compromise... try Mike's method and the Lenny Tristano Joe Salomon methods?
Yes. I'm also trying to hear the melody in my head at the same time too.
My latest effort is trying to hear all the subdivisions while hearing melody and harmony. Long hard road.
There are reasons outlined in Paul Hindemiths book The Craft of Musical Composition Part 1. This is a deep book that I only partially understand, but his discussion of intervals is the answer for why a bass solo is so tricky to accomplish without accompaniment.
The short answer is simplicity. Blues, melody, groove, taste, less is more. Read that book slowly, for more details about intervals. because your solo is all about intervals and the implications of those intervals.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
This is about as useful as saying "What you say is about words and the implications of those words."
You know Ed, you are a tough cookie. Have you read Paul Hindemiths book Craft of Music Composition Part 1? If so do you understand it? In that book he provides answers to why playing bass solo, esp unaccompanied, is so difficult.
Let me attempt to give my take on it, as I am here to help people struggling with things bass; not so much you, an acknowledged good solid experienced pro.
Ed, you are obviously also a teacher, a guy who makes his living teaching, so please bear with my explanation that I have borrowed from Hindemith- I am not a teacher, and have no profit motive here, but my words are less articulate.
I know in my gut, that playing solos on bass without benefit of chords, is difficult, and I have a semi clear idea why thanks to Hindemith.
The bass note you play, if it is not one of the simplest notes possible, has a tendency to take over in your ear. Schoenberg speaks about this "taking over" tendency of any given note. Each note has a tendency to want to be the tonic or dominant, in other words to erase the original chord or key center you started in, and to establish dominance, just like govts do.
That a simplistic answer to why you should keep it simple enough so that another key has difficulty taking over ( "taking over in your mind ') the original key. This is a VERY important point that I have never seen in print except for the twin geniuses Hindemith and Schoenberg.
If key is C and you don't play obvious C triadic things, or C blues things, your ear will be pulled to other tonalities, and not unfortunately by design.
Try playing the simplest solos possible, on the simplest songs possible.
Again crawl before walk before running.
The simple triads are easier to keep in mind while you solo.
The simplest chords are overwhelmingly ( in the key of C maj ) C F and G
Choose a song that contains these chords only
And then try to solo on that song.
