I think everyone here is aware of that, but I for one am interested in learning about the "pro sound" examples as we can apply this same stuff to our bass rigs. Best rig that's practical I suppose is the goal.
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The Dispersion Issue
- Thread starter BassOnTheSide
- Start date
I think everyone here is aware of that, but I for one am interested in learning about the "pro sound" examples as we can apply this same stuff to our bass rigs. Best rig that's practical I suppose is the goal.
So question for the guys that try to get the best dispersion from their rig. Is it that you can't hear yourself at certain spots, or is it that your tone is bad at certain spots? If it's just a matter of not hearing yourself, it seems like just going for good low or mid dispersion would get you heard, whereas good HF dispersion might make it sound better. Just curious, cuz the problem is different for high and low frequencies of course.
I'm currently using an Xsonics 3-way (tweeter off), and will sometime in the future be upgrading to a fEARful 1212/6, so I'd say that dispersion is important to me. I don't play places that put my bass through the PA too often, so I generally have to cover the place myself. The way I see it, if I can get the tone I like in a package that is more thoughtfully engineered than most run-of-the-mill bass cabs, then why not? There's no penalty for sounding too good!
Before I got the Xsonics, my tone would sound a bit muddy and indistinct in some places, and too bright and harsh in others. If I used any effects like chorus or distortion, it amplified the problem. Now my tone sounds the same anywhere in front of the cab, and I can hear all the effects I use clearly. Plus, the mid driver makes the distortion and overdrive sound a lot nicer than a tweeter.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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I sometimes go to concerts at Red Rocks Colorado ... Usually the best seats there are the middle section. Too far up front and too far back the sound is not balanced. Bands usually use a curved array pa system there.
It all comes down to your personal usage. Dispersion is really about your upper frequencies, but if you spend the majority of time standing right in front of your cab onstage, then dispersion is pretty much a zero issue. As, for the crowd, it's still pretty much a non issue because, well.... your'e standing right in front of the bloody cabinet acting like a human gobo, so no one is hearing much of your top end anyway. Same holds true for your bandmates hearing you well onstage, if you are standing right in front of your cab.
If you always have PA support, then once again, dispersion is a non issue for the crowd. They are going to be hearing most of the top end frequencies from the PA.
In a typical horn/tweeter loaded cab, they are most likely not crossing over to the horn until 3k or even 5k and you probably won't notice much high end loss off axis, as your typical horn is throwing 40+ degrees, or more, anyways. For me, it's not so much the top end, but the upper mids that become the critical factor for your bandmates hearing you well on stage. Good dispersion of those upper mids is so important which is why I'm not a fan of traditional 410 cabs. With their drivers in a side by side arrangement, your horizontal dispersion of the upper frequencies before the crossover point is reduced considerably, which is why you notice that the upper mids coming off the woofers only sound best right in front of the cab. This is one reason why using a dedicated mid driver has its advantages.
Wider dispersion is definitley a good thing, no doubt, but how important it is really has a lot to do with how you use your cabs on stage.
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I seem to to get great dispersion, no matter what rig I play through. As soon as I start playing, the audience disperses.
Most disastrous sound I ever had on stage was with a 15" combo amp. There is no need to blame the 15" woofer for a bad beaming characteristic, the reason for very bad sound on stage was quit different because the combo amp run out of juice and so we forced the wedge front line as an "equivalent" support on stage for bass guitar.
Otherwise I can't remember on really dead spots on stage. I'm aware that a 410 alignment of drivers will cause comb filtering. Fortunatelly the comb filtering effect does not rub out the treble response in total. It's of course a somewhat different coloring off axis but as long as comb filtering doesn't turn my Spector bass guitar in a Fender P-bass stringed with flats soundwise, so what!
I feel somewhat torn with the new smallish PA skinny towers. I'm always missing the punch that a 12" or 15" midrange driver can do. I think it has something to with radiation impedance (and wave impedance) of air thus an improved coupling with larger cone diameter.
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Barefaced offers trad looking fridges with one column of tens high passed to get around the horrible mid beaming of regular fridges.
When in doubt I could also use one side of my Eliminator i-series PA as bass cabinet.
It's a skinny "stacked" tower
It sounds pretty nice as application for bass guitar. 18" loaded bandpass sub, 15" for midbass and midrange and 1.5" horn loaded for treble and top end.
Main problem is any distortion at overload range out of the svt, the fridge and my 212+8 cab do a way better job in this regard.
It's a skinny "stacked" tower
It sounds pretty nice as application for bass guitar. 18" loaded bandpass sub, 15" for midbass and midrange and 1.5" horn loaded for treble and top end.
Main problem is any distortion at overload range out of the svt, the fridge and my 212+8 cab do a way better job in this regard.
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Shouldn't one of the two columns be rather low passed to get the improved "horizontal" dispersion effect?
Ether way, that's actually an interesting idea, I think I will more think about it. Especially since I'm considering of swapping the old fashioned eminence square magnet drivers.
At the other hand the vertical dependence versus distance to the cab still remains.
So it would be "theoretically" best to low pass the bottom 410 as well as one column of the top 410 but that makes no sense nothing at all.
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There is a thread or two on this .5 alignment here on TB. I don't remember if a frequency was decided as most effective?
Have you checked out any of Mike Arnopol's cabs? I only heard a few examples in his living room but noticed right away they had uncanny off-axis capability.
any progress with measuring the "witchcraft" yet?
Plenty of discussion about dispersion on the DB side of the forum.
Biggest things I've learned:
- how much clearer your band mates can hear your amplified DB sound.
- lower amp volume is needed = reduced feedback,
- lower total stage volume = band mates can hear themselves better (no volume wars).
- some trade off with micing a DB and dispersion (smart speaker position is critical).
When doubling: Switching from quiet jazz/dinner set to loud dance set on electric bass can really mess up stage sound... even if it sounds great out front.
Biggest things I've learned:
- how much clearer your band mates can hear your amplified DB sound.
- lower amp volume is needed = reduced feedback,
- lower total stage volume = band mates can hear themselves better (no volume wars).
- some trade off with micing a DB and dispersion (smart speaker position is critical).
When doubling: Switching from quiet jazz/dinner set to loud dance set on electric bass can really mess up stage sound... even if it sounds great out front.
Ive used a wireless unit to check out how my band sounded from a distance, its a strange experience. Wireless is good for getting a general idea of how the band sounds and for checking your coverage first hand. But those wireless units can also affect your tone. If you know someone who plays similarly, have them fill in while you check your sound from out on the floor without the wireless.
As far as the crowd, in most cases the music is so darn loud that anyone within a reasonable distance will be overloaded. And while the sound is utterly important, dont forget about the other critical factors of the performance such as entertainment value, professionalism, etc..
