Yeah, businesses that devalue products should be fined, IMO. Call me a socialist. I'm good with that.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass The end of Finale
- Thread starter oren
- Start date
Definitely a high IQ poet, IMO, and a kind and generous teacher. We need to encourage more people to be like that.
I think, you mention the difference between musescore.org and musescore.com... musescore as software is available from musescore.org, who delvelops and maintains it.. on musescore.com you'll find a player for musescore files, but as far as I know, you can't edit files or create new ones..
Last edited:
I don't know about that, but they should face the consequences of their destruction by having people vote with their feet. They are one of several companies that I will never patronize again in my lifetime because of their practices. Enough said about that.
Moving on, I found this article this morning, and based on that I will be checking out Dorico.
Invalid Link Removed
@oren the thing that burned me so much about the Sibelius debacle was how it was turned from an intuitive program into a counterintuitive one. In Sib Ultimate, you can't just click on text and edit it, and that ribbon is an absolute abomination. The article I linked uses the description "clean, streamlined workflow" over and over when describing Dorico. I hope that that ends up being the case, but I have hopes that it is true since the original Sibelius creators are behind the creation of it. What's your experience with the workflow in Dorico? How intuitive do you find it?
What is the difference between MuseScore.org and MuseScore.com?
MuseScore.org is home to the open source MuseScore program for Windows, macOS, Linux, and its developers, contributors and users community. Its Invalid Link Removed is the ideal place to ask any question related to the MuseScore program.MuseScore.com is a community site to share your sheet music with your friends via the web and for the mobile apps for iOS and Android. The site has social features such as embedding, commenting, annotating, statistics, groups. The site offers free accounts, but has a Pro Account for those who want more.
The Musescore app is associated with Musescore.org. No subscription required to use the app You subscription is for the sharing website and does not impact your ability to create your own scores.
I use free-MuseScore and am really happy with it. Years on Finale, the Sibelius, before coming to it.
There is a paid version that I don't use that gets you things like access to some community tools and charts. Never felt important to me.
My guess from reading the comminication, which mentions millions of lines of code, is that after thirty years of development the source code is such a mess that they can't even deal with it any more, much less outsiders.
I agree that the code is probably a mess, but, I'd bet that there's a small group of people who'd be willing to start learning it and cleaning it up. It'd be a huge lift no doubt, but there's all kinds of people out there. I've got better things to do.
The thing that strikes me over and over again when using notation software is just how rich and complex the symbolic nature of music notation actually is. With that amount of complexity I'm not sure any notation software can ever feel truly intuitive out of the gate. Dorico definitely has its own learning curve, and coming from Finale (I never used Sibelius or Muse) I have had my share of head scratching moments. Luckily those issues have been resolved by a quick search of the excellent documentation or asking a question in the user forums. The other thing about Dorico is that it is very consistent in how it does things, so once you figure out how to do something in one place it will work the same way in other situations.
I should say that I don't do anything really complex with notation - mostly I'm doing lead sheets with melodies, chord symbols, and lyrics, with some occasional specific notation for instrument parts like bass, piano, or horns. So I don't know about how it works for doing symphonic writing, or any of that crazy
modern stuff. I do all of my work from the computer keyboard, so I don't know myself how it works from a midi keyboard. I find note input from the keyboard much more consistent and easy to master than Finale, where I never did really figure out the different input modes. And I will say that inputting of chord symbols is so much more sane than Finale that in itself that is almost worth the switch. Just being able to move along in the score typing "Em7b5", "A7b9b13", "Dma7+11" is a vast improvement. And the handling of the appearance of chord symbols is treated separately from their input, so if, for example, you decide you want triangles for major chords you can make that switch without going back to each chord.
One area I'm still working on is figuring out how to best structure layouts for printing lead sheets and parts, so that new sections start at new systems, etc. You can adjust all that manually in Engrave mode, but I'm sure there are better ways that I just haven't put in the time to figure out yet.
I think the cross grade pricing they're offering Finale users is a screaming deal. And the new FAQ for Finale users is worth reading, as are the new videos by Ben Byram-Wigfield that start from this page: After sunset: your path from Finale to Dorico – Dorico
I'll be interested to see what you think, if you decide to explore!
Someone had what I thought was a smart idea on FB: Build a virtual machine and install your copy of Finale on it and register that copy now before registration becomes impossible. That VM should operate for several years. Of course, you coulad also just bite the bullet and move to Dorico now. I wonder if the new features in Dorico for the next few years would justify the effort and expense?
One thing I found out (the hard way, as I so often do) is that I always ended up needing the Finale features available only in "full" versions. The "Pro" version of Dorico is $580. Yikes. Can my old 32-bit computer last as long as I do? Should I buy a new computer now, install Finale before it goes away, and just store it until I need it?
It's a desktop, running Windows 7. It has worked fine for years.
Fwiw, I still have one XP machine running Sibelius 2.0 with no trouble....
Even my Windows 10 laptop won't install the last printer driver update. I don't think any of my computers have lasted more than 5 years, except for the ones in my cars and a Tivo that I finally sold after more than a decade. I was impressed that it just kept working and it was always on. Most components don't have that kind of life expectancy.
But anyway, MakeMusic sent me an email that will be able to register our copies of Finale indefinitely. I'm a bit surprised that they can extend that offer because it means that they have to maintain the registration website and that'll cost some money when there's none coming in. If it's true, then that's a very generous and considerate action, IMO.
From the news release at The End of Finale - Finale
For a limited time, users of any version of Finale or PrintMusic can purchase Dorico Pro – the highest tier of the product – for just $149 (retail price $579).
Here is some latest information from Finale, corroborating what @Tom Lane reported:
Clarifications on the initial announcement
Clarifications on the initial announcement
Updates
8/27/2024 @ 5:30 PM ET:Clarifications on the initial announcement
- Finale authorization will remain available indefinitely: Please note that [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] can still impact your ability to use Finale on new devices.
- Finale v27 to be included with Dorico Pro Crossgrades: We are currently working on a solution for all customers who have purchased or intend to purchase a Dorico Pro crossgrade to be able to download Finale v27. This will ensure that you can export your Finale files using MusicXML 4.0, the most robust version of MusicXML available. Thank you for your patience, we will provide more information soon.
Updates
8/27/2024 @ 9:00 AM ET:Clarifications on the initial announcement
- Finale development has ended, but the Finale installer for any previously purchased version can still be downloaded from your Invalid Link Removed account. If your computer crashes or you need to install Finale on a new device, you're not left without options.
- We are committed to keeping the authorization process functional for a year. We've heard your concerns and are actively exploring ways to extend flexibility in the weeks ahead.
- We understand that learning Dorico will be a steep learning curve, as it is with any complex notation or professional software. Both our team and Steinberg have developed extensive onboarding videos to guide you through the transition.
The good news is that in response to initial "expressions of concern", MM is going to make sure those of us who have Finale will be able to use it after Aug 2025, but no support of course, notably for newer OS'. However for as long as you can make it work, you can keep on reinstalling on new and rebuilt systems; no Authorization required.
And really, I am happy to put some time and energy into learning Dorico. It's so clear that Finale has been a very idiosyncratic, awkward kluge for a long time, getting worse by the year. Now a lot of people have contributed their not unsubstantial talents into helping it along, and supporting it in facilitating some extraordinary work. But it seems a rat's nest of inconsistencies and make-dos, with layer after layer of superimposed plug-ins and work-arounds. Sad but that's how it seems to me. It would be a bloody nightmare to take it open source and for the user community to try to fix it. Run away, run away!
Dorico supposedly was built as an offshoot of Sibelius, and constitutes an entire rewrite of the code base for the software. I bought it yesterday for the $149 try-me fee, and I have to say, it feels way more logical and intuitive right off the bat, compared to Finale. There exists is a vast set of tutorials and users' docs, and a corporate commitment to continuing to update and upgrade. That makes me feel more at home, less precarious. Also the vast universe of Finale users who are dedicated to helping with the Finale>Dorico transition are providing all sorts of help.
If you want to read an extremely informed and gold standard take on the issues, join the Facebook group Finale Power Users, and read Jason Loffredo's comments. Lots to think about.
And really, I am happy to put some time and energy into learning Dorico. It's so clear that Finale has been a very idiosyncratic, awkward kluge for a long time, getting worse by the year. Now a lot of people have contributed their not unsubstantial talents into helping it along, and supporting it in facilitating some extraordinary work. But it seems a rat's nest of inconsistencies and make-dos, with layer after layer of superimposed plug-ins and work-arounds. Sad but that's how it seems to me. It would be a bloody nightmare to take it open source and for the user community to try to fix it. Run away, run away!
Dorico supposedly was built as an offshoot of Sibelius, and constitutes an entire rewrite of the code base for the software. I bought it yesterday for the $149 try-me fee, and I have to say, it feels way more logical and intuitive right off the bat, compared to Finale. There exists is a vast set of tutorials and users' docs, and a corporate commitment to continuing to update and upgrade. That makes me feel more at home, less precarious. Also the vast universe of Finale users who are dedicated to helping with the Finale>Dorico transition are providing all sorts of help.
If you want to read an extremely informed and gold standard take on the issues, join the Facebook group Finale Power Users, and read Jason Loffredo's comments. Lots to think about.
