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The Fifths Tuning Club
- Thread starter ~M.o.M~
- Start date
Woo hoo a fifths tuning club. Can i have a number please.
I've used fifths tuning on my DBs for over five years now and on my EBs for about three years.
All tuned C G D A .
I'm a professional bass player playing on average four or five gigs a week.
With the DB I play mostly jazz and rockabilly with a little bit of classical playing.
also original folk/pop/rock band playing and recording.
My fifths tuned EB gets played in a very busy wedding/corporate function band.
I love this tuning system and can't see myself ever going back to fourths.
Its nice to see other people tuning this way too.
I think the hardest thing about fifiths tuning is the often negative reaction from other musicians.
Some people are genuinely interested but a helluva lot are scathing and dismissive.
Particularly other bass players which is kinda sad.
So I think its great that this club exists.
Here we can support and encourage each other.
I've used fifths tuning on my DBs for over five years now and on my EBs for about three years.
All tuned C G D A .
I'm a professional bass player playing on average four or five gigs a week.
With the DB I play mostly jazz and rockabilly with a little bit of classical playing.
also original folk/pop/rock band playing and recording.
My fifths tuned EB gets played in a very busy wedding/corporate function band.
I love this tuning system and can't see myself ever going back to fourths.
Its nice to see other people tuning this way too.
I think the hardest thing about fifiths tuning is the often negative reaction from other musicians.
Some people are genuinely interested but a helluva lot are scathing and dismissive.
Particularly other bass players which is kinda sad.
So I think its great that this club exists.
Here we can support and encourage each other.
Of course, Ikonoklast! You're number 6!
I'd love to hear more from you about how you took the "fifths" path. Not many of us make this choice, and I believe there's always an interesting story behind it.
Talking about other bassists, I've gotten responses such as "Why?", "If it aint' broken, don't fix it" and "It's just impractical", but I've also found people who thought it was ingenious and were willing to try it up to a degree. You really can tell who's conservative and who's not.
Now, since you're here, you wouldn't mind sharing a trick or two with us, would you? Your experience seems invaluable!
I'd love to hear more from you about how you took the "fifths" path. Not many of us make this choice, and I believe there's always an interesting story behind it.
Talking about other bassists, I've gotten responses such as "Why?", "If it aint' broken, don't fix it" and "It's just impractical", but I've also found people who thought it was ingenious and were willing to try it up to a degree. You really can tell who's conservative and who's not.
Now, since you're here, you wouldn't mind sharing a trick or two with us, would you? Your experience seems invaluable!
Ah, now we have a double bassist among us! I suspect that the fifths tuning is more popular in the DB world than the EB world so it might have made more sense to put this club on the DB side of TB but here we are and here we stay. Tell your DB friends about us! The local orchestra concerts I attend can have up to three DBs on a given evening. One plays with a C extension, one with a five string, and one plays EADG. Maybe some day one of them with give CGDA a try. I wonder if I could tell just by watching them? I am certain the the one tunes EADG because he fingers everything just like the guy with the C extension except when "Mr C" is on the C extension. If he switched to fifths would I be able to tell just by watching?
I am an amateur, I actually only play in the worship band at church. But I too love the tuning. I don't know why, exactly, but I loved it within minutes of installing a proper set of strings and trying it for the first time. I got into it as a dodge around my dislike of five string basses. I like if for that reason still but I stay with it because I just love it. I'd always thought it was impractical on even a 34 inch scale. And then I read about Red Mitchell and knew that I just had to try it. I recently got the 30 inch Squier VI and I do appreciate how the tuning works on the shorter scale but it is not needed to make the tuning practical.
Yeah, I could try to record some samples with the Squier VI. I am such a hack that I doubt it would be very useful but I could try to put something together that might not be too embarrassing....
I am an amateur, I actually only play in the worship band at church. But I too love the tuning. I don't know why, exactly, but I loved it within minutes of installing a proper set of strings and trying it for the first time. I got into it as a dodge around my dislike of five string basses. I like if for that reason still but I stay with it because I just love it. I'd always thought it was impractical on even a 34 inch scale. And then I read about Red Mitchell and knew that I just had to try it. I recently got the 30 inch Squier VI and I do appreciate how the tuning works on the shorter scale but it is not needed to make the tuning practical.
Yeah, I could try to record some samples with the Squier VI. I am such a hack that I doubt it would be very useful but I could try to put something together that might not be too embarrassing....
Thanks for the welcome guys. Its great to find others who are walking this unusual path.
Like a lot of you I first heard about fifths tuning through Joel Quarrington around ten years ago.
I thought his story was really inspiring. He was so brave and so talented. He had to be.
If a guy can reach the pinnacle of the classical bass playing world tuned in fifths, then why couldn't I could play "brown eyed girl" in fifths in a bar band.
From reading about Joel I discovered Red Mitchell. A top session player, side man and one of the most lyrical improvisers on upright bass.
If he can do all that in fifths then why can't I play a couple of standards in fifths at the local jazz jam session.
So a couple of years later i bought a set of Red Mitchell spirocore strings and just put them on my double bass.
The transition was not as difficult as I thought it would be.
Each string is in a drop "D" position to its neighbor, drop D is quite common in rock and metal so it felt natural enough.
In CGDA tuning, which i guess we could call standard fifths tuning, the D string is our reference point to fourths tuning.
If you get a little lost you can always come back to that D string.
Once I got used to it, I really started to enjoy it.
For orchestral music its great getting those lower notes. Its not just for the low C, you'd be amazed how often you come across low Ebs and Ds.
Certain keys are easier to play in than others. The C, G, D, F, Bb major keys are fun and easy to play. A, E, Eb are little more difficult. Db, Gb and B are the most difficult and awkward to play. There ain't a whole lot of classical music written in Gb because violins and cello don't like this key either.
The high A made upper register playing easier even though its only a tone in the difference.
For jazz it felt so great having access to a low Eb when playing a Bb blues. It felt quite natural dipping into that sub bass area when playing walking bass lines in general. The new tuning system forced me to break out of old habits and patterns. I found myself playing in areas of the fingerboard I've never had to play in before. My walking bass lines and solos became much more melodic.
People say that 3rds are awkward in fifths tuning, its true that they are easier in fourths, but having easy access to 10ths (3rds up an octave) more than makes up for it. 10ths sound great on bass and in fifths tuning they are so easy to play all over the fingerboard.
Its kinda late now so I'm gonna leave it here. I was playing DB in fifths for about 2 years before I decided to try it on EB.
I'll talk more about that in my next installment. I could talk about this subject til the cows come home but right now I need to sleep
P.S. khutch your idea about tuning a Squier VI in fifths just blew my mind. I bet it sounds great. I would love to hear some sound clips.
Like a lot of you I first heard about fifths tuning through Joel Quarrington around ten years ago.
I thought his story was really inspiring. He was so brave and so talented. He had to be.
If a guy can reach the pinnacle of the classical bass playing world tuned in fifths, then why couldn't I could play "brown eyed girl" in fifths in a bar band.
From reading about Joel I discovered Red Mitchell. A top session player, side man and one of the most lyrical improvisers on upright bass.
If he can do all that in fifths then why can't I play a couple of standards in fifths at the local jazz jam session.
So a couple of years later i bought a set of Red Mitchell spirocore strings and just put them on my double bass.
The transition was not as difficult as I thought it would be.
Each string is in a drop "D" position to its neighbor, drop D is quite common in rock and metal so it felt natural enough.
In CGDA tuning, which i guess we could call standard fifths tuning, the D string is our reference point to fourths tuning.
If you get a little lost you can always come back to that D string.
Once I got used to it, I really started to enjoy it.
For orchestral music its great getting those lower notes. Its not just for the low C, you'd be amazed how often you come across low Ebs and Ds.
Certain keys are easier to play in than others. The C, G, D, F, Bb major keys are fun and easy to play. A, E, Eb are little more difficult. Db, Gb and B are the most difficult and awkward to play. There ain't a whole lot of classical music written in Gb because violins and cello don't like this key either.
The high A made upper register playing easier even though its only a tone in the difference.
For jazz it felt so great having access to a low Eb when playing a Bb blues. It felt quite natural dipping into that sub bass area when playing walking bass lines in general. The new tuning system forced me to break out of old habits and patterns. I found myself playing in areas of the fingerboard I've never had to play in before. My walking bass lines and solos became much more melodic.
People say that 3rds are awkward in fifths tuning, its true that they are easier in fourths, but having easy access to 10ths (3rds up an octave) more than makes up for it. 10ths sound great on bass and in fifths tuning they are so easy to play all over the fingerboard.
Its kinda late now so I'm gonna leave it here. I was playing DB in fifths for about 2 years before I decided to try it on EB.
I'll talk more about that in my next installment. I could talk about this subject til the cows come home but right now I need to sleep
P.S. khutch your idea about tuning a Squier VI in fifths just blew my mind. I bet it sounds great. I would love to hear some sound clips.
I call this "Contra Cello" tuning. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us...very cool to read it.
In order to encourage people to make some recordings of the tuning, I prepared this one.
It's not the best, but it ain't the worst either. For one, it shows how beautiful and open chords can sound in Fifths.
The bass is tuned CGDAE, and its high E is used a whole lot in this one!
It's not the best, but it ain't the worst either. For one, it shows how beautiful and open chords can sound in Fifths.
The bass is tuned CGDAE, and its high E is used a whole lot in this one!
Red Mitchell converted to fifths in 9 days of intense practice. Even I did it in 10 days of perhaps an hour a day, although granted that Red converted a large repertoire of memorized music to the new tuning while I only had to learn 5 or 6 songs I'd never played before for what turned out to be my first Sunday with the worship band. I thought I was just going to sit in again at the rehearsal that week which was seven days after I switched and was quite surprised to find that the bassist for that Sunday was unavailable to play and I was now on the team. Talk about a bad time to switch to fifths! But there was nothing to be done about it since I had too little time to go relearn the set list in fourths and my performance that Sunday was fine. What problems there were stemmed from nerves over my first public performance on any instrument in any tuning in years, decades actually. When I first started I struggled a bit with the switch over for perhaps an hour and then I realized that CGDA was just EADG upside down with the exception of one string. That fact may not help everyone but it helped me a lot and things went smoothly after that.
A six string short scale tuned CGDAEB is mind blowing but now imagine a seven string baritone tuned FCGDAEB....
A six string short scale tuned CGDAEB is mind blowing but now imagine a seven string baritone tuned FCGDAEB....
I never learned the bass using conventional tuning (some of you already know my background) so I'm really encouraged by the activity on this and the "Quint Tuning" thread.
Just found this thread. Does my Chapman Stick count?Most Sticks have the bass side tuned in fifths, CGDAE.
So the decision is up to me, it seems.
When I created this thread I wished for a club where bassists who chose 5ths (rather than 4ths, Drop or other tunings) would socialize and trade secrets, experiences and useful advice concerning this unique tuning.
I'm kind of negative in your case because I consider Chapman Sticks to be another thing of their own, even though their bass side is almost always tuned in fifths.
But just because I created this thread, it doesn't mean that I should lead it. The decision is up to the people of the thread, and if they say it counts, I'm game too.
Well, what do you guys think?
Didn't see this thread until now, but I've been tuning in fifths on BG and DB for almost a decade now. Used to also play mandolin-family instruments, got a doubleneck bass with one neck in fourths and the other in fifths, and decided I liked fifths better.
What's the current availability of flatwounds in good gauges for CGDA? I have an oooooooooooold set of Chromes on the bass in my avatar, but they stopped selling them in those sizes some years ago.
What's the current availability of flatwounds in good gauges for CGDA? I have an oooooooooooold set of Chromes on the bass in my avatar, but they stopped selling them in those sizes some years ago.
Very valid. I doubt I have much expertise to share, given that I've only been at it a couple years. I'd probably be reluctant to use fifths on a BG, so I violate the "adventurous spirit" of most of the rest of you.
But I'll be paying attention just the same.
Here is a video of my rockabilly band playing a fourth of july gig a few years ago
That bass is tuned in fifths with the spirocore Red mitchell set.
Spirocores are not the most slap friendly strings
But the weichs (light) set are not too bad.
Hey -M.o.M- that is some nice chord playing on blue bossa, really crystal clear it almost sounds like there are two instruments.
Tell me about your string choices, brand, type and most importantly gauge. I'm curious about the high E.
I'd like to hear about everyones string choices.
My G&L is strung with DR hi-beams 40 60 90 120
The 120 is too light for C, I have a 135 ordered its arriving soon.
I'm gonna try fifths on an old five string i have, a peavey millennium.
I ordered 40 60 90 135 for the A D G C.
For the high E i ordered a 25w plus a 20 plain steel in case it works better than the wound string.
They are D'addario nickles by the way.
I have GHS precision flats on a Squier P bass 40 63 95 120
Again the 120 is too light so a 128 is on the way. (thickest string available)
Also the 95 is a bit stiff but no 90 was available. I figured 85 would be too light.
I get all my strings from basssringsonline.com.
Their build your own string set page is invaluable to us fifth tuning dudes.
That bass is tuned in fifths with the spirocore Red mitchell set.
Spirocores are not the most slap friendly strings
But the weichs (light) set are not too bad.
Hey -M.o.M- that is some nice chord playing on blue bossa, really crystal clear it almost sounds like there are two instruments.
Tell me about your string choices, brand, type and most importantly gauge. I'm curious about the high E.
I'd like to hear about everyones string choices.
My G&L is strung with DR hi-beams 40 60 90 120
The 120 is too light for C, I have a 135 ordered its arriving soon.
I'm gonna try fifths on an old five string i have, a peavey millennium.
I ordered 40 60 90 135 for the A D G C.
For the high E i ordered a 25w plus a 20 plain steel in case it works better than the wound string.
They are D'addario nickles by the way.
I have GHS precision flats on a Squier P bass 40 63 95 120
Again the 120 is too light so a 128 is on the way. (thickest string available)
Also the 95 is a bit stiff but no 90 was available. I figured 85 would be too light.
I get all my strings from basssringsonline.com.
Their build your own string set page is invaluable to us fifth tuning dudes.
I have only toyed with the tuning. Have a fender frankenbass fretless with a set of Circle K strings.
I dug through their string tension charts and from previous experience, I like a little lighter gauge string than most because I like a looser tension.
Shooting for just under 40 lbs, I ordered a set:
C .124 36.9 lbs
G .082 37.2 lbs
D .055 37.7 lbs
A .035 36.1 lbs
For a close to 40 lb tension, I could have ordered:
C .130 40.4 lbs
G .086 40.7 lbs
D .057 40.4 lbs
A .037 40 lbs
I am currently running a .127 to .042 set on my 5er in 4ths.
Can't play it for crap in this tuning, but I like the strings and tension.
I dug through their string tension charts and from previous experience, I like a little lighter gauge string than most because I like a looser tension.
Shooting for just under 40 lbs, I ordered a set:
C .124 36.9 lbs
G .082 37.2 lbs
D .055 37.7 lbs
A .035 36.1 lbs
For a close to 40 lb tension, I could have ordered:
C .130 40.4 lbs
G .086 40.7 lbs
D .057 40.4 lbs
A .037 40 lbs
I am currently running a .127 to .042 set on my 5er in 4ths.
Can't play it for crap in this tuning, but I like the strings and tension.
I'd love to get some tapewounds which with decently balanced tension in fifths tuning, but I don't suppose there's much hope of that, is there?
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