The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Btbp]

As a rabid Broughton fanboi for a few years (and I still am), I swore up and down by my ginormous analog pedalboard. I didn't believe for a second that the Stomp could ever replace my analog setup. But it actually has replaced a great deal of it. It has not replaced many of the Broughtons, mind you, nor can it. But most of the other stuff and a handful of Broughtons have been replaced, which for me is quite a statement.

The Stomp wasn't terribly easy to dial in, and I'm still figuring it out. I have seriously aggravated my tinnitus from sitting and tweaking for hours on end. I have a few great core tones that I've dialed in, but there are so many options at times it is a bit overwhelming. I don't even want to think about all of the time I've spent trying to craft a good crossover distortion or fuzz patch.

I have not purchased any presets, but am still considering it. The factory presets are awful, IMHO. You will learn a great deal from downloading other people's patches and seeing how they create a patch, or watching videos on Youtube of how people create bass patches. The first thing I did was got presets from another Talkbass member to get me started. I didn't use any of his stuff as is, but many of them were a great starting point to help me learn how to dial things in. Dr. Tone also has some great free presets available which will cue you in on how to do some things. A lot of his stuff seems geared towards Billy Sheehan dual-pickup bass tones. I haven't really been able to get much out of it with my own setup. But again, it showed me how presets can be created. I can't really wrap my head around his stuff. A lot of his tone seems to come from compression and EQ's, as opposed to cab sims, for example. Which blows my mind. It's a whole other way of thinking of things. In his demo videos on his site, his stuff sounds awesome. But it does not sound like that with my bass and setup. But again, there were some great starting points in there, and they might work great for you as is. I also got some halfway decent tones from the Custom Tone community on the Line6 website. They have all required tweaking to be usable for me, but there are some great starting points out there.

But most people probably would not do what I have done. My three core tones are a Sunn, Fender, and Ampeg SVT CL. But I'm an Ampeg guy at heart, so each patch has a fairly similarly dialed in Ampeg SVT4-Pro feeding the other amp(s). It's unorthodox, to be sure, but I really love it. the SVT4-Pro is what has taken the place, mostly, of my Broughton SVPre, which was otherwise always on in my analog setup. And even that was feeding another SVT sim with a Mesa 8x10 cab sim at the end.

For the overwhelming majority of the time, most of the tones I've downloaded from others . . . not to mention the factory presets . . . did not sound very good in my setup and required at least some tweaking. But I take what they offer, and incorporate it into the sound I'm looking for, add some cab sims from Shift Line's bass IR pack, and I'm off and running. Now I'm down to just a handful of Broughtons and other things and the Stomp. And my lower back couldn't be happier.

That being said, I'm also not someone who incorporates a ton of different tones in any given set. I find one great core sound and stick with, then add some drive on occasion, maybe some octave, maybe both, maybe some chorus, or all of the above. And the Stomp has plenty of options for those things to keep you happy for a very long time.

Great post. Based on what you said I'd be interested to see how your board has evolved.

 

[Uncle Walt]

I would buy a Nobel before I bought a Kemper for bass

My Kemper IS a Noble
and a Reddi, Jule, Kern, Demeter, Broughton,...

 

[Uncle Walt]

I tried switching from the Kemper to the Quad Cortex and ended up going back to the Kemper. Here's a link to the thread where I shared my experience and pros/cons.

Kemper Profiler Users Group

 

[smallerthings]

For only $40, the Behringer BDI21 V-Tone Bass Driver DI pedal is an absolutely game changing effect for me. I play on the bass setting of a Yamaha THR desktop amp. The bass sounds real honky and flat. I added this to my board and it instantly sounds like an SVT. Throw in a compressor and it's such a difference.

 

[chadhargis]

My Kemper IS a Noble
and a Reddi, Jule, Kern, Demeter, Broughton,...

I am well versed in emulation, but I have always wondered how profiling works. When you profile something, does it prompt you to add knobs and buttons and you sweep the knobs on the cloned gear or do you have to set up what you want to clone then profile it with that one particular setting?

 

[MascisMan]

I am well versed in emulation, but I have always wondered how profiling works. When you profile something, does it prompt you to add knobs and buttons and you sweep the knobs on the cloned gear or do you have to set up what you want to clone then profile it with that one particular setting?

On the QC, you setup the Amp/Preamp/Pedal with the settings desired then it takes a "snapshot" of the device in that configuration. The QC does integrate a basic Gain/Level/Bass/Mid/Treble EQ section to the capture as well to tweak some after the fact.

 

[scubaduba]

Yep, so using the Noble as an example one might create several captures as starting points. For example, the three below:

1. Noble flat: Treble and bass knobs all the way counter clockwise and HPF off
2. Noble bass/treble 9:00: Treble and bass knobs at 9:00, HPF off
3. Noble HPF: HPF activated and bass set to 3:00, Treble noon (or whatever combo you want)

Then it is just a matter of putting whatever capture in your chain you want to use. And then you do have integrated EQ, Treble, Mid, Gain, Level to tweak a little if you need to.

 

[scubaduba]

And you could have all kinds of presets. For example:

Signal chain 1: Onboard compressor --> onboard reverb --> captured fuzz pedal --> Noble as your preamp/DI out via Quad Cortex XLR to FOH.

Signal chain 2: whatever you want --> your favorite preamp --> whatever you want --> REDDI as your DI via Quad Cortex XLR to FOH.

 

[jacoby75]

Great post. Based on what you said I'd be interested to see how your board has evolved.

From this:

Signal chain: Bass > Broughton BBA > Omnicomp > Solarian > Studio Boost > channel switcher.
Loop 1: 3Leaf Octabvre
Loop 2: Dirts - Suncoast BC3xl (with a Saturnworks loop switcher to bypass it and a Rolls mini crossover in front) > Damnation Audio Bloop with an EHX DBMM and Broughton Sentinel (briefly, later a Scorpion, also briefly, but both are incredible) in the loop > Broughton RFE (to fine tune the dirts).
Loop 3: EHX Bass Clone > Wah
Back to the channel switcher > Broughton SVPre > Atomic Bass Box > Radial JDI

The cute little Joyo Golden Face was up there just along for the ride. Wasn't really using it anymore.

To this. (Please excuse the mess. We're remodeling.) I have been slowly eliminating pedals from the "necessary list," and this is what I am left with. I clearly need to clean it up a bit and get a smaller board, and I can remove the Eventide power expander and run everything off of the Cioks. Still have the Radial JDI at the end as well:

Signal chain: Bass > Broughton BBA > tuner > Alma comp > Solarian > Stomp > Studio Boost > JDI

 

[chadhargis]

On the QC, you setup the Amp/Preamp/Pedal with the settings desired then it takes a "snapshot" of the device in that configuration. The QC does integrate a basic Gain/Level/Bass/Mid/Treble EQ section to the capture as well to tweak some after the fact.

That's the way I was thinking it would work. The cool thing about profiling gear is that I could profile my tone from the HX Stomp running through the Khan and just have one device.

Right now I'm happy with my rig, but that happiness will fall victim to my gear nerd illness at some point.

 

[MascisMan]

That's the way I was thinking it would work. The cool thing about profiling gear is that I could profile my tone from the HX Stomp running through the Khan and just have one device.

Yep.

You could always pickup a QC used, do what you mention above, A/B the two setups (to see if the QC is capturing the likeness of what you want) then sell one set up or the other. A used QC will bring back the same value you paid for it should you decide to sell it.

 

[chadhargis]

Yep.

You could always pickup a QC used, do what you mention above, A/B the two setups (to see if the QC is capturing the likeness of what you want) then sell one set up or the other. A used QC will bring back the same value you paid for it should you decide to sell it.

If only I had $1800 to drop on gear right now. LOL!

 

[SteveC]

Right now I'm happy with my rig, but that happiness will fall victim to my gear nerd illness at some point.

Hopefully, I will be happy with the Stomp for a while before I feel like nerding out.

If only I had $1800 to drop on gear right now. LOL!

I looked hard at the QC - mostly because of the touch screen and "drag and drop" kind of editing - but there is SO MUCH that I wouldn't use. You can run like 4 different instruments simultaneously if you wanted. Really? I mean, I won't use some of the potential of the Stomp as it is.

 

[chadhargis]

Hopefully, I will be happy with the Stomp for a while before I feel like nerding out.



I looked hard at the QC - mostly because of the touch screen and "drag and drop" kind of editing - but there is SO MUCH that I wouldn't use. You can run like 4 different instruments simultaneously if you wanted. Really? I mean, I won't use some of the potential of the Stomp as it is.

I hear ya!

I am a tech guy by trade and have been in the technology sector professionally for 35 years, so I love all the digital gear. But at the end of the day, I'm really happy with the HX Stomp. It gets my tone where I want it to be.

 

[MascisMan]

If only I had $1800 to drop on gear right now. LOL!

Ha! I totally get it.

For what its worth I moved from a Stomp/Khan set up to the QC and am very happy. Only thing the QC lacks compared to the Stomp is the extensive amount of effects that Line 6 has developed over the years within the Helix ecosystem. Obviously being a newer product/platform the QC has a smaller catalog of effects (though they still have all the generally expected entries, overdrive, fuzz, reverb, delays, modulation, filters, EQ, etc). Of course, if you don't need the much larger repository of effects the Helix platform has, then the QC could work really well for you?

 

[chadhargis]

Ha! I totally get it.

For what its worth I moved from a Stomp/Khan set up to the QC and am very happy. Only thing the QC lacks compared to the Stomp is the extensive amount of effects that Line 6 has developed over the years within the Helix ecosystem. Obviously being a newer product/platform the QC has a smaller catalog of effects (though they still have all the generally expected entries, overdrive, fuzz, reverb, delays, modulation, filters, EQ, etc). Of course, if you don't need the much larger repository of effects the Helix platform has, then the QC could work really well for you?

Or just model all the effects from the Helix you want.

 

[MascisMan]

Or just model all the effects from the Helix you want.

That is certainly true for the overdrives, boosts, and amps/preamps.

The QC cant profile modulation, compressors, or time based effects though.

I do usually supplement my QC with a Source Audio C4 to get more synthy type or pad-like sounds. The C4 also has really good OC-2 octaver ability. It just adds some more flexibility. For bass I have found the onboard modulation effects (specifically chorus/reverb/delay) are enough. But again, I am not playing anything too "wacky" so I dont have the need for the stranger end of things.

Im sure eventually I will be able to remove the C4 as the QC library grows.

 

[chadhargis]

That is certainly true for the overdrives, boosts, and amps/preamps.

The QC cant profile modulation, compressors, or time based effects though.

I do usually supplement my QC with a Source Audio C4 to get more synthy type or pad-like sounds. The C4 also has really good OC-2 octaver ability. It just adds some more flexibility. For bass I have found the onboard modulation effects (specifically chorus/reverb/delay) are enough. But again, I am not playing anything too "wacky" so I dont have the need for the stranger end of things.

Im sure eventually I will be able to remove the C4 as the QC library grows.

For me it seems like pretzel logic to spend $1800 to profile the rig I already have with half that much invested.

At some point, there will be a new device that blows my mind. I think what that would take at this point would be a small form factor interface that just contains the physical jacks. No screens or buttons. It would be controlled via a phone or tablet app. It would have wireless built in. It would have the option of running on a long life (12+ hours) rechargeable battery or external power.

The win for a device like this is that I'd take nothing to the gig other than my bass, the interface box, and my phone/tablet. The device could even have expandability for using things like Ultranet for IEM mixing. Wanna run a cab too? A separate class D power amp that connects using digital wireless allowing you to locate your cab anywhere on stage you would like.

Ah....I can always dream.

 

[SteveC]

Of course, if you don't need the much larger repository of effects the Helix platform has, then the QC could work really well for you?

True. I won't use 1/4 of what the Stomp has. Yet, I don't know that I need an $1,800 option either. One reviewer (of the QC) mentioned they liked not having as many options as the ones there were good so how many compressors do you really need to choose from. I agree. And if fewer options meant the QC was $999, maybe I'd spend twice as much. But for 1/3 the price of the QC, I can get a very usable sound.

Not to rain on anyone elses QC parade, I just don't have the funds or need for that level of gear.

 

[MascisMan]

Not to rain on anyone else's QC parade, I just don't have the funds or need for that level of gear.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a QC to you?

I was responding to chadhargis