The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[pisces_bass]

Well, the Berg is set up as a bass preamp so there isn't really an expectation of it to do what the Stomp can with regard to routing. On the HXS, you can set the Effects Return to behave like an Aux In, and by setting up a send/return block, and using the send you can get your IEM feed from the "Aux In" but it won't route it to the send where you take your bass signal from. You set the volume to control the headphones and you're good to go. You don't actually use the main outs. Just the Effects Send and Return. It's pretty slick. I had one setting wrong last week so I couldn't try it, but I think I have everything set now to try this weekend. If it works. The HXS will replace my Nano board, tuner, Rolls and CIOKS power supply. I have an adapter for the one spot that makes it a 2.5 mm end for the HXS. Make it the only device I need. Pretty slick.

Interesting. Let me apologize up front if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote. The only experience I have is one band where the lead singer uses IEM's and takes the feed off the board. If I desired, I could do the same. But I'm a luddite and have preferred to just play my amp at a reasonable volume with the band and get the vocals off monitor wedges.

Are you saying you get a feed from the board back to your HXS then blend in your bass sound? Do you then send a signal back to the board for the rest of the people using IEM's? This is new territory for me, obviously

 

[Btbp]

Is this really a fair comparison, or apples to oranges (or better analogy)?

 

[Pedalnetics]

Is this really a fair comparison, or apples to oranges (or better analogy)?

I'd say it's fair to compare. The Berg claims:
'Instead of hauling around a number of EQ's, compressors, overdrives, distortions, fuzzes, and tuners, this single unit will cover all of that for you and more'
So they're pitching it as an all-in-one multiFX unit, it has presets and a tuner, it's in a pedal format, and it's actually more expensive than the Stomp.
I'd consider them competing options, each having different benefits but covering much of the same area; maybe not directly marketing against each other, but both could meet a lot of people's all-in-one needs.

 

[SteveC]

I don't think they are in direct competition with each other.

 

[SteveC]

Interesting. Let me apologize up front if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote. The only experience I have is one band where the lead singer uses IEM's and takes the feed off the board. If I desired, I could do the same. But I'm a luddite and have preferred to just play my amp at a reasonable volume with the band and get the vocals off monitor wedges.

Are you saying you get a feed from the board back to your HXS then blend in your bass sound? Do you then send a signal back to the board for the rest of the people using IEM's? This is new territory for me, obviously

Yeah, I get a full mix back from the board. I control my mix with an app on my phone. Same for the whole band.

 

[james81bong]

PreAmp ShootOut VS.1 Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock

A-Design RED DI vs
TwoNotes LeBass vs
TwoNotes ReVolt Bass vs
GRBass DualPre vs
Aguilar ToneHammer

Here's a direct comparison between the bass DI/preamp I've got at my disposal at the moment in my home recording studio.
For this comparison, I've selected a short slap/fingerstyle bass lick extracted from the song 'Caleidoscopio', published for Black Widow Records in 2019 by my Progressive Rock band 'Melting Clock' in our debut album 'Destinazioni'.
You can hear the complete song and full album at the following links:

Melting Clock YouTube Page:
https://www.youtube.com/@meltingclock8545

Melting Clock Facebook Page:
Melting Clock

Melting Clock Spotify Page:


Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock (Studio Version)


Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock (Live @ La Claque)


Please leave likes and comments as you please, we're always looking for feedback.

The lick has been recorded using the different DI/preamps through their respective balanced XLR output into an Arturia AudioFuse Studio. No effect have been applied a part from my always-on FEA Labs DB-CL dual band compressor at the start of the chain, the output volume of the different preamps settings have been leveled using the Audiofuse Studio's level meters as reference (note that even if the different equalizations of the channels could let perceive different volumes, the dB levels are always comparable).

Here's the complete Signal Chain :

1) Bass:

Wood & Tronics Zoid 5 Neck-Through Active
Pickups: *Delano "The Hybrid Five" Dual Coil @ Bridge + Single Coil @ Neck
PreAmp: East/W&T SP-02 3-BAND with Internal Frequency Selector (EQ Flat)

2) FEA Labs DB-CL Compression Limiter (setup for slight compression)

3) DIs/PreAmps Configurations:

3.1) A-Design RED DI
3.2) Two Notes LeBass ch1 Clean (actual settings shown in the video)
3.3) Two Notes ReVolt Bass ch1 Clean (actual settings shown in the video)
3.4) GRBass DualPre ch1 (Clean) + ch2 (Drive NOT engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)
3.5) Aguilar Tone Hammer No AGS (AGS NOT engaged, actual settings shown in the video)
3.6) Two Notes LeBass ch2 Dirt (actual settings shown in the video)
3.7) Two Notes ReVolt Bass ch2 Dirt (actual settings shown in the video)
3.8) GRBass DualPre ch1 (Clean) + ch2 (Drive engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)
3.9) Aguilar Tone Hammer AGS (AGS engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)

4) Arturia AudioFuse Studio DiscretePRO© PREAMPS

Backing tracks are the actual STEMs from the album, with the bass track removed of course.
The idea is to compare the different perfomance of the preamps in an actual mix.

The different preamps settings (that are clearly shown in the video) have been selected to fit the genre and cut through the mix while emphasising the diverse preamps pecularities, if you have questions or suggestions please post them and I'll be glad to answer them.

 

[Dave Hill]

PreAmp ShootOut VS.1 Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock

A-Design RED DI vs
TwoNotes LeBass vs
TwoNotes ReVolt Bass vs
GRBass DualPre vs
Aguilar ToneHammer

Here's a direct comparison between the bass DI/preamp I've got at my disposal at the moment in my home recording studio.
For this comparison, I've selected a short slap/fingerstyle bass lick extracted from the song 'Caleidoscopio', published for Black Widow Records in 2019 by my Progressive Rock band 'Melting Clock' in our debut album 'Destinazioni'.
You can hear the complete song and full album at the following links:

Melting Clock YouTube Page:
https://www.youtube.com/@meltingclock8545

Melting Clock Facebook Page:
Melting Clock

Melting Clock Spotify Page:


Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock (Studio Version)


Caleidoscopio by Melting Clock (Live @ La Claque)


Please leave likes and comments as you please, we're always looking for feedback.

The lick has been recorded using the different DI/preamps through their respective balanced XLR output into an Arturia AudioFuse Studio. No effect have been applied a part from my always-on FEA Labs DB-CL dual band compressor at the start of the chain, the output volume of the different preamps settings have been leveled using the Audiofuse Studio's level meters as reference (note that even if the different equalizations of the channels could let perceive different volumes, the dB levels are always comparable).

Here's the complete Signal Chain :

1) Bass:

Wood & Tronics Zoid 5 Neck-Through Active
Pickups: *Delano "The Hybrid Five" Dual Coil @ Bridge + Single Coil @ Neck
PreAmp: East/W&T SP-02 3-BAND with Internal Frequency Selector (EQ Flat)

2) FEA Labs DB-CL Compression Limiter (setup for slight compression)

3) DIs/PreAmps Configurations:

3.1) A-Design RED DI
3.2) Two Notes LeBass ch1 Clean (actual settings shown in the video)
3.3) Two Notes ReVolt Bass ch1 Clean (actual settings shown in the video)
3.4) GRBass DualPre ch1 (Clean) + ch2 (Drive NOT engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)
3.5) Aguilar Tone Hammer No AGS (AGS NOT engaged, actual settings shown in the video)
3.6) Two Notes LeBass ch2 Dirt (actual settings shown in the video)
3.7) Two Notes ReVolt Bass ch2 Dirt (actual settings shown in the video)
3.8) GRBass DualPre ch1 (Clean) + ch2 (Drive engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)
3.9) Aguilar Tone Hammer AGS (AGS engaged) (actual settings shown in the video)

4) Arturia AudioFuse Studio DiscretePRO© PREAMPS

Backing tracks are the actual STEMs from the album, with the bass track removed of course.
The idea is to compare the different perfomance of the preamps in an actual mix.

The different preamps settings (that are clearly shown in the video) have been selected to fit the genre and cut through the mix while emphasising the diverse preamps pecularities, if you have questions or suggestions please post them and I'll be glad to answer them.

REDDI by a mile. Maybe by 100 miles. Lol

 

[CatOnTheBass]

Great shootout @james81bong , thank you for taking the time to do all that!

My favorite was the REDDI (and my least favorite was the Aguilar).

I would have enjoyed hearing a plain-jane DI box (like a Radial or something), or even just your bass straight into the audio interface, as part of the comparison. Your bass tone really sounds amazing all on its own!

 

[SteveC]

The answer is always REDDI.

 

[james81bong]

REDDI by a mile. Maybe by 100 miles. Lol

In a recording situation or rehearsing at home the DI sound of a RED DI (or the Ampeg SVT DI I've used to record the album a few years ago) is the best and mandatory as a base sound. But in live use, or to complement the crisp DI sound in building a good recording tone, a colored preamp offering some tubey harmonics and more mid-focused EQ can make the difference !! This is the reason behind the eq I've selected for the DualPre, but also for the Dirt channels of LeBass and ReVolt. At the moment, my good-to-go tone for almost anything is a 30% of the REDDI (pure, uncompressed, no effects), 30% of the pedalboard+preamp-DI sound (compressed, effected and eq-ed and partially overdriven by the dual preamp) and 30% of the former adding the cabm at the end (where the cabsims add body, weight and smooth down the treble edge). This is similar to what is done in a professional recording studio where a DI sound is commonly mixed with the miked amp sound. Of course, recording these 3 tones in parallel permit also to mix them differently depending on the specific song or even movement, virtually obtaining the perfect sound in every situation.

 

[james81bong]

Great shootout @james81bong , thank you for taking the time to do all that!

My favorite was the REDDI (and my least favorite was the Aguilar).

I would have enjoyed hearing a plain-jane DI box (like a Radial or something), or even just your bass straight into the audio interface, as part of the comparison. Your bass tone really sounds amazing all on its own!

The REDDI add colour and harmonics, but it's difficult to hear the difference from the really good DiscretePRO pre of the AudioFuse in a compressed YouTube video: on the other hand, monitoring directly thorugh my DT770 Pro 250ohm heaphones and the Arturia's headphones pres the difference is there and the REDDI wins as the sound is more warm, rich and articulated. I would say the Radial would be undiscernable from the DiscretePRO. Also, I've A/B the REDDI with an Ampeg SVT DI and the difference is minimal: I prefer the REDDI since it has a definitely better signal-to-noise ratio.

I've got to say that the REDDI, but also the GRBass and the Two Notes preamps, emphasise the peculiar sound of the bass you're using. I've compared using my NS Design Radial CR5, Omnibass and Modulus Q6 and they sound totally different. The Tone Hammer on the other hand have a baked-in sound the flatten the original bass sound, like also most Markbass equipment tend to do; however, the Aguilar and Markbass sounds are really recognizable and it's easier to use them effectively to be heard in a mix. I've favored them in the past for sake of simplicity, but now that I've got finer basses (and finer tastes) I prefer to spend time and money to get my unique sound tuned at my best toward perfection. GRBass has the advantage there: with 2 channels with independent ultra-tunable eq it permits to seek clarity and definition at an higher level. Among all my equipment, my GR DualPre (and my GR Dual 800 head) stays there since they offer the possibility to tune tone the most. The ReVolt capability to keep using my base amp tone through 4-wiring method is a winning feature since it will permit to add tone variations while keeping my exhisting base tone at hand.

 

[Rocksolid]

Yeah, I get a full mix back from the board. I control my mix with an app on my phone. Same for the whole band.

I assume you are running wired IEM for this function of the HXS to be relevant? It's really cool that it can do that, but if you are running Wireless IEM this feature is redundant as you are just connecting the desk send to your IEM transmitter.
Or is there more to this feature that I am not understanding?

 

[SteveC]

Right. I'm wired for IEM's.

 

[fivestringgecko]

I sense a board revamp coming in the not too distant future to get this into my signal chain.

Well, sadly (sort of?)... a revamp to get my ValveDrive on my board might be sooner, but more of an actual requirement than I previously anticipated.

Got to rehearsal last night and discovered that my Chancellor wah had a catastrophic failure. The pin that engages the gear to run the sweep broke, so it's stuck on and somewhere in the middle of the toe/heel sweep and can't turn off. I've already reached out to Dunlop and am anxiously awaiting reply, but that leaves me with a rather sizeable gap on my board to fill...

5sg.

 

[fivestringgecko]

Got the board rebuilt yesterday, including the EBS. I dropped a 12AT7 in there and didn't notice a TON of difference in the gain knob... now it breaks at maybe 10:00ish instead of 8:30-9:00 like it did with the 12AX7. Kinda makes sense since an AT isn't that much less gain than an AX. Still sounds quite good though.

5sg.

 

[Jctanner78]

Quilter Phantom Block looks intriguing! It's teeny tiny, costs $99, and runs on 9v or phantom power. No 'thru' is a bold design choice.

View attachment 3680962

I'm thinking of trying this out as a second DI option. As a backup if my tube head dies. As a second dry signal to send to FOH. For recording. For fun. As an experiment.

 

[SteveC]

I did a track for a commercial tonight. Used a Kemper rack with floor board. Pretty nice. We settled on an SVT with a Darkglass BK7. The Roscoe sounded pretty good. It was a brief encounter but I thought it sounded nice. Not sure it was $2K nice, but I do need to spend some time with my Stomp.

 

[fivestringgecko]

Welllllll, I've already reached out to EBS, but curious if any of you tube preamp experts have any experience/advice to share:

I think my ValveDrive DI just died.

I've been powering it with the Voodoo Labs current doubler cable with two (non-switchable) outlets on my Strymon Zuma for 1000mA of power @ 9V, and the green lights under the two ports were blinking green. Both ports stopped blinking when I unplugged from the ValveDrive and work fine when I test with other pedals. I've also tried the EBS power supply that came with the DI. No luck. It's been working fine for several rehearsals and some personal practice time. I'm thinking something inside the pedal fizzled out.

Anyone have any advice? Thanks in advance!

5sg.

 

[kevk]

Well, after tone chasing 'TB-style' for years…think I've found my happy place (PC-2A>M>M>SP)…

…the Berg preamp DI's (and 1/4" Line Out) sound fantastic stand-alone, but my preference—feeding tube(s)>>>Berg SP… (Btw, PC-2A>M>SP also yields really nice results!)

Just thick (zero break-up) tube tone going into preamp…break-up (when desired) comes from the SP onboard drive options…also using a minimal amount of onboard compression.

 

[SteveC]

There just isn't a true all in one is there? People with a Stomp still use extra pedals - myself included although the pedal is a tuner to save a foot switch and a Rolls box for my wired IEM's.

The Super Pre is the ultimate tool box, yet every one I see is paired with other pedals. Not an indictment on the gear or the people, just an observation.

Can there be an "all in one" unit for bass players? The Darkglass Infinity claims to be one as well. I tried that hoping it could be a small device with preamp, compression, a LITTLE drive, and an XLR out. Too aggressive for me. The Stomp is close - especially if you use effects. No effects needed, the Super Pre should be it. It's interesting.