The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[chadhargis]

Exactly why I've never been able to part with my Tone Hammer. It's made the cut through quite a few pedal sales... It's never even been on the chopping block.

5sg.

And in all honesty...if you're playing live, no one in the audience is going to be able to tell the difference between a Tone Hammer, MXR, SLO, Noble, etc. in a mix. Even those with well trained ears.

Now, studio work is different...but there you have DAW plugins and such, so other than a quiet DI....you don't need much unless you're using effects.

 

[uwrossl]

@jacoby75 I will say the more I mess with the thump the more I like it. The midrange control from this thing is fantastic and the overall sound is great. A little hard to put into words kind of. Almost like it takes a light blanket off the sound with out being brittle, sterile, or overly bright. Kinda just adds more of the good stuff from what I've heard so far.

First gig with it is tonight

 

[chadhargis]

Is there magic sauce in the RNDI??

Ok folks...here ya go.

Here's the equipment used:

A&H ZEDi10 Mixer
RNDI
FEA Labs Compressor
microThumpinator
Shift Line Olympic IIIs (no cab sim)
Garage Band

All recorded to 24bit WAV format from GarageBand.

For the bass only clips I am using my 5-string Jazz bass in active mode with the EQ set flat. All knobs on the channel strip set flat.

Bass --> RNDI --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer:


So in the first clip above...there is no EQ. But the other two are going through my board and have lots of tone shaping on them. But you can get a good A/B comparison on the last two to decide if the RNDI adds any magic.

Now...here's the tones in mix:

I used three different basses:

1. J5 Active (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
2. PJ5 Passive (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
3. P Passive (with Dunlop Precision flats)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer

Thoughts
Is the RNDI adding some sonic magic? Yes...it is to my ears. It seems to make the tone warmer and rounder to my ears. The clips were recorded at the exact same time using different channels on the mixer, through the same board, with the ONLY thing different being the DI. I was running the RNDI out of the "OUT" from the SLO.

There is no doubt that the RNDI is putting character on the tone. I had the XLR and OUT levels set to noon on the SLO. That said, the RNDI needed a little more gain on the board than the DI from the SLO. I could have level matched it using the SLO OUT level, so that's not a strike against the RNDI.

What do you guys think?

 

[MascisMan]

Is there magic sauce in the RNDI??

Ok folks...here ya go.

Here's the equipment used:

A&H ZEDi10 Mixer
RNDI
FEA Labs Compressor
microThumpinator
Shift Line Olympic IIIs (no cab sim)
Garage Band

All recorded to 24bit WAV format from GarageBand.

For the bass only clips I am using my 5-string Jazz bass in active mode with the EQ set flat. All knobs on the channel strip set flat.

Bass --> RNDI --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer:


So in the first clip above...there is no EQ. But the other two are going through my board and have lots of tone shaping on them. But you can get a good A/B comparison on the last two to decide if the RNDI adds any magic.

Now...here's the tones in mix:

I used three different basses:

1. J5 Active (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
2. PJ5 Passive (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
3. P Passive (with Dunlop Precision flats)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer

Thoughts
Is the RNDI adding some sonic magic? Yes...it is to my ears. It seems to make the tone warmer and rounder to my ears. The clips were recorded at the exact same time using different channels on the mixer, through the same board, with the ONLY thing different being the DI. I was running the RNDI out of the "OUT" from the SLO.

There is no doubt that the RNDI is putting character on the tone. I had the XLR and OUT levels set to noon on the SLO. That said, the RNDI needed a little more gain on the board than the DI from the SLO. I could have level matched it using the SLO OUT level, so that's not a strike against the RNDI.

What do you guys think?

I can detect a slightly more mellow, rounded off tone with the RNDI introduced. Also detected the level reduction from the RNDI in the solo/Soundcloud files.

Sounds really good!

 

[scubaduba]

I agree the RNDI adds that extra special something. A little rounder is a good way to put it. To me that translates into a bit more focused compressed sound. More "studio board" like.

 

[Bassworship1]

Is there magic sauce in the RNDI??

Ok folks...here ya go.

Here's the equipment used:

A&H ZEDi10 Mixer
RNDI
FEA Labs Compressor
microThumpinator
Shift Line Olympic IIIs (no cab sim)
Garage Band

All recorded to 24bit WAV format from GarageBand.

For the bass only clips I am using my 5-string Jazz bass in active mode with the EQ set flat. All knobs on the channel strip set flat.

Bass --> RNDI --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> Mixer:


Bass --> Comp --> HPF --> SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer:


So in the first clip above...there is no EQ. But the other two are going through my board and have lots of tone shaping on them. But you can get a good A/B comparison on the last two to decide if the RNDI adds any magic.

Now...here's the tones in mix:

I used three different basses:

1. J5 Active (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
2. PJ5 Passive (StringJoy nickels)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer
3. P Passive (with Dunlop Precision flats)
   • SLO --> Mixer
   • SLO --> RNDI --> Mixer

Thoughts
Is the RNDI adding some sonic magic? Yes...it is to my ears. It seems to make the tone warmer and rounder to my ears. The clips were recorded at the exact same time using different channels on the mixer, through the same board, with the ONLY thing different being the DI. I was running the RNDI out of the "OUT" from the SLO.

There is no doubt that the RNDI is putting character on the tone. I had the XLR and OUT levels set to noon on the SLO. That said, the RNDI needed a little more gain on the board than the DI from the SLO. I could have level matched it using the SLO OUT level, so that's not a strike against the RNDI.

What do you guys think?

I listened to all of them and the RNDI definitely was a. Improved version of each bass over just the SLO to me. Would have loved to hear what just the RNDI only with each bass would have done.

 

[chadhargis]

I listened to all of them and the RNDI definitely was a. Improved version of each bass over just the SLO to me. Would have loved to hear what just the RNDI only with each bass would have done.

Ask and ye shall receive (within reason!). Here's clips of the RNDI direct to the mixer with no EQ or other tone shaping. Not even a tuner or buffer in the chain. Just the bass --> RNDI --> Mixer.
https://soundcloud.com/chadhargis/rndi-only-p-bass?in=chadhargis/sets/rndi-direct-test
P Bass (Passive)


PJ Bass (Passive)


J5 Bass (Active - set flat)


Dingwall Combustion (Active - set flat)

 

[Bassworship1]

@chadhargis

Sounded good and refreshed my memory of when I tried one a couple years ago.

 

[TonyP-]

The RNDI has a thickish color in the lower mids and sweet top end, not harsh but not limiting either.

I’m using it live %100 of the time, however things are slowing down there.

Can’t wait for this pandemic to be over.

 

[chadhargis]

The RNDI has a thickish color in the lower mids and sweet top end, not harsh but not limiting either.

I’m using it live %100 of the time, however things are slowing down there.

Can’t wait for this pandemic to be over.

Poor Nashville is hurting too. The SEC tournament has been cancelled. The home show cancelled. The NHL season on hold. And crowds at the clubs and bars are sparse. Lots of tours and shows have been put on hold too.

Even my church has cancelled in person services for the next two weeks. Gonna do streaming only.

 

[Hypercaffium]

With the RNDI I hear also slightly better definition in the attack. It sounds very, very good.
Honestly, I always prefer a preamp with built-in cab sim. I prefer that kind of tone against the raw signal. It doesn't mean you will always use cab sim, but it's there and it's a better tone, to my ears.
That's why I still consider the SLO the overall best solution at the moment. At least for my needs.

I must say that a Linden into RDDI would be an awesome solution, imho. The RDDI adds that wormth and seem to filter out some of the harshness of trebly instruments, plus the EQ on the Linden is able to give you many different and usable tones. It would be a very simple and effective setup.

 

[jdc866]

Not sure if this fits here, but I’ve been looking at the teegarden audio Fat Boy tube DI. Anybody use one of those?

 

[chadhargis]

Not sure if this fits here, but I’ve been looking at the teegarden audio Fat Boy tube DI. Anybody use one of those?

Teegarden is a local company here and a LOT of players swear by them. They are also widely used in local studios. I have heard nothing but good things about them.

 

[jthisdell]

I love that this thread started with the Tone Hammer. Nearly 70 pages deep, it’s still a viable option.

I have been following this discussion for my own education. The preamp rabbit hole is as deep as you care to make it. I have a GAS list of others to try but the TH is so flexible and always sounds good on the gig.

I have the TH amp and run a Messenger into the front end of it. All very good but I just ordered a P-15, not sure exactly how I will use. The rabbit hole has gotten deeper indeed.

 

[chadhargis]

The rabbit hole has gotten deeper indeed.

Yep...finding YOUR tone is an endless quest.

 

[jthisdell]

Yep...finding YOUR tone is an endless quest.

Guitarists want five pedals that each make their sound dramatically different.

Bass players want (at least) five pedals that altogether make their sound just a tiny bit better, such that almost no one else notices.

 

[sonofshel]

Guitarists want five pedals that each make their sound dramatically different.

Bass players want (at least) five pedals that altogether make their sound just a tiny bit better, such that almost no one else notices.

You just totally nailed it with these two paragraphs! This has been my plight/journey for the past few years now and I think I’m close to achievement but, of course I have to still try out a few more pedals...

 

[scubaduba]

Anybody have a Noble they'd like to sell me? I'd like to directly compare to the Oracle and SLO.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Anybody have a Noble they'd like to sell me? I'd like to directly compare to the Oracle and SLO.

Actually, since he did such a famously good job with the compressors, and since these preamp/compressor/DI threads tend to run together so badly that I can't keep them straight, I hereby nominate scubaduba to buy *all* of these and to work his magic with them, for the good of all.

Just imagine how helpful that would be!

 

[chadhargis]

Anybody have a Noble they'd like to sell me? I'd like to directly compare to the Oracle and SLO.

I don't have my Noble anymore, but I may have the sound clips comparing the Noble to the Shaw and the Shaw to the SLO. I'd have to check.

The Noble is an impressive piece of gear, and when the Shaw booted it off my board it was only because the Shaw had more tone shaping and more output options. The Shaw is my favorite preamp so far, but it's size and weight were considerations. It also required 120AC so I had to use a splitter cable. Not a big deal, but I like the simplicity of running everything off the PowerMax. The SLO is a great compromise. It is small, light, has cab sims (which honestly I seldom use), and I love the EQ. In a mix you can't tell the difference. The RNDI DI vs the SLO DI is more audibly noticeable in a mix than the SLO vs other tube preamps.

But all of it is splitting hairs.