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The Gripmaster

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#41
Originally posted by fretbuzz
WHY do the veterans here hate the gripmaster? its not like an automatic tab generator is it? give us weak pinky players a break.
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Because the people asking about it will be the same people who two months later will be on here asking about RSI and Carpal Tunnel syndrome - agonisng about whether they have injured themselves permanently! :rolleyes:

Besides, everybody knows that the secret of good bass playing is low action and a light touch!
 
#42
Originally posted by fretbuzz
all kidding aside mr. Johnson. i agree that actually playing the bass is the "best" way to strenghthen the fingers, forearm etc... would you also agree that the gripmaster can help to improve control of individual fingers on demand. maybe im wrong, but it seems like ive gotten improvement in that area. anyway, while im at work, i'll get a little gripmaster in, when i get home, i'll get full action on my neck.
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fretbuzz, I'm not saying it "can't" work for you, just that in the course of 25 years or so, I've been around people who almost unanimously agree that for them, these training devices weren't the best way to get the results they wanted. I haven't spent any quality time with a Gripmaster, I know people who have... and stopped.

I'm self-taught. When I first started playing I didn't use my fretting hand pinky. When I decided to incorporate it in, it was difficult. Just like almost everything about playing a musical instrument (besides striking an open string on a bass or hitting a single drum;)) at first it's difficult and then it becomes easier. What most of us hate to do is deal with that "difficult" period, no matter how brief.

If you think about it, depending on your setup, a bass string does not have to be difficult to fret, so how much "downforce" strength do you really need? OTOH how does a Gripmaster deal with the muscles needed for quick lateral pinky movement? An example would be going from a two fret stretch to a five step one? When I first started, a stretch of G on the E string to D on the G string was hardly possible for me... and it was slightly painful. Now it's no big deal.

It just seems to me that the best way to develop playing muscles is still by using them to play. That's just me, doesn't mean I'm "right".;)
 
#43
Like Brad, I'm completely self taught (I actually started guitar first, which I still continue to play as well), and like Brad I had the same problem. I didn't use my pinky at all. It wasn't until I got my fretless that I really started to concentrate on using it (about 5 years ago). Now I use it instinctively and it's part of my technique.

When I'm away from my bass and I want to work my fretting hand, I do an excercise that I got from Stu Hamm's "Slap, Pop & Tap" video (Actually, He admits on the video that it was taught to him by Carol Kaye)...

Hold your hand open with all four fingers (plus thumb) extended. Then close just your index and ring finger (leaving the middle finger and pinky open). Then switch to closing the middle finger and pinky while opening the index and ring fingers. Continue swapping back and fouth. At first it will be very difficult, but after some practice you should be able to do it fairly quickly without having to give much thought to it. According to Stu, it helps gain finger independence.

Another thing I do is (again, starting with all fingers open as if I'm ready to grap the neck of my bass) rapidly open and close each finger 5 or 6 times (while keeping the other fingers open), then move on to another finger, varying the order from finger to finger. Whether or not it really helps, I'm not sure, but I can tell you I can do it very easily with my left (fretting) hand, but I can't do it well with my right hand at all (of course I don't practice with my right hand either). Once again, it seems to help with increasing both independence AND mobility of each finger.

Of course, YMMV...

- Frank.
 
#45
Originally posted by fretbuzz
I guess at this point i really need to defer to the majority of opinion. just to let you know, im NOT trying to take a "shortcut" to good chops, i just thought it might help. from now on I will leave that thing alone. thanks for spending much time correcting the error of my ways.
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fretbuzz, if it's working for you, cool. My opinion is based only on my experience and what I read about or discussed with other musicians. Sorry about the "shortcut" comment, too. There's all kinds of reasons why people do things.

Good luck.
 
#48
Originally posted by Camel_spit
geez, that post stuck out, didn't it? i was refering to phil smoth's post on page 2, guess i was a little late....:rolleyes:

by the way, what do you good bassists mean exactly when you talk about a low action?
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phil smoth????? Who's that? :D

Action = the distance between the top of the the last fret and the bottom of the string above it.

Low Action = when that distance is approximately less than 5/32".
 
#50
The lower the action, the less effort is needed to press the string against the frets, which makes it easier to play fast runs (and to do the slap/pop thang). If the action is set too low, you'll hear the string "buzz" against the frets as they vibrate. Some players however like to "dig in" and play their basses hard, and therefore prefer a high (or higher) action. It's another one of those subjective things where one isn't necessarily better than the other, it's how it suits your playing style and what feels best to you.

- Frank.
 
#51
What - you mean some people want to put in a lot more effort for no reason whatsoever! HMMM! ;)


It's not subjective - nobody will ever convince me that there is any need for me to have high action - I can objectively see no advantages to having high action. Whereas I can see loads of advantages to low action and in fact there are many things I can only play with a low action.

Of course if you really want things like RSI and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and to make it really hard to hold down the strings on your bass, so you need to build up your strength with exercise programmes - go ahead, I won't stop you - I'll just stand by watching and laughing! :D
 
#52
Hi Bruce,

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but I still maintain it's a subjective thing. I agree with you in that personally, I prefer a very low action which suits my playing style, but there ARE those who like it high...

Here's an excerpt from Bruce Johnson's webpage on setting up Ampeg Scroll Basses ( http://www.xstrange.com/vintagesetup.html )
The setting of the action is really a matter of preference. I set most of my vintage Ampegs at about 0.150" on the E string and 0.130" on the G. Setting the action lower means that the fingering is lighter, but you have to pluck the strings gently. Higher action requires more left hand strength, but you can pluck the strings harder and get more dynamic tone out of them.
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Next, Check out Hank Van Sickle's website at: Link Removed

On his "RIG" page under "Electric Basses" he writes:
ELECTRIC BASSES: In the picture, from left to right that's a '62 reissue Fender Precision, Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass V, Danelectro black metal flake DC Bass, and'75 reissue Fender Jazz. All awesome basses. The P bass and Dano are set up for blues and roots/country gigs, high action and flatwound strings. The 5 string and reissue jazz bass are set up for more modern blues, jazz, and contemporary music, lower action and round wounds. I've got a bunch of other basses, but don't play them much, so I'm trying to find good homes for them.
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Evidently, it seems to works for him.

Peace,

- Frank.
 
#53
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
What - you mean some people want to put in a lot more effort for no reason whatsoever! HMMM! ;)

Did he say for no reason whatsoever? No;)

It's not subjective - nobody will ever convince me that there is any need for me to have high action - I can objectively see no advantages to having high action. Whereas I can see loads of advantages to low action and in fact there are many things I can only play with a low action.

Ring Will Lee and explain that to him*.

Of course if you really want things like RSI and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and to make it really hard to hold down the strings on your bass, so you need to build up your strength with exercise programmes - go ahead, I won't stop you - I'll just stand by watching and laughing! :D

High action does not have to cause these problems... poor technique or a single repetitive style are more likely. I'm sure there has to be some DB'ers who don't suffer these injuries and look at the typical string height there.

Try not to go to extremes, Bruce. There's a difference between hard and "really hard". There can be a major difference tonally between striking a string hard that has low action and one that has higher action. If you prefer the sound of the higher action... that's a very obvious reason to have it that way.

Then again, maybe this was a joke.
:D


* Or have a seance and channel JJ.
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#55
my bass has a low action, but the one i used to play at school seemed to have a very high action. both are/were enjoyable and not very hard to play, although i think i preferred the low action. and just another thing (i'm not very intelligent) what is rsi and carpal tunnel syndrome? i've gathered they're not very good.....
 
#56
Camel_spit,
Don't sell yourself short... It's not a matter of intelligence, just that you're young and haven't been around a office environment to hear some of these terms.

RSI = Repetitive Stress (or Strain) Injury

RSI and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome occur from repeated physical movements doing damage to tendons, nerves, muscles, and other soft body tissues. It's usually attributed to secretaries and computer operators who type on a keyboard all day long, but it's also common among musicians.

If you really want more info on it, visit the link below:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This concludes my public service announcement for this morning.

Peace,

- Frank.
 
#57
Originally posted by Brad Johnson
There can be a major difference tonally between striking a string hard that has low action and one that has higher action. If you prefer the sound of the higher action... that's a very obvious reason to have it that way.
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Well no - in fact the basses I have tried with higher action have always sounded worse. Besides, I'm pretty sure you could get the same tone by overdriving the amp or something similar.

My view is that people get into bad habits and then rather than change, they adjust their action to suit.

But anyway I was very careful to say that "for me" there is no objective reason to have a high action. I can see that if you have played 20-30 years with high action and "digging in" then it is probably easier to raise the action - but I can objectively see no reason whatsoever for me to do this.
 
#58
But anyway I was very careful to say that "for me" there is no objective reason to have a high action. I can see that if you have played 20-30 years with high action and "digging in" then it is probably easier to raise the action - but I can objectively see no reason whatsoever for me to do this.
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Exactly :D :D :D . This is why I said it was subjective. Some like their strings heavy, some like 'em light... Some like 'em round, some like 'em flat... Some like neck-thru's, some like bolt-on's... Some like EMGs, some like Barts... Some like 'em active, some like 'em passive... Some like 'em with 4 strings, some like 'em with 5 (or 6, or 7+ if you're JT)... and yes, some like it high, and some like it low

[Rodney King voice on] Can't we all just get along? [Rodney King voice off]

Peace,

- Frank.
 
#59
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Well no - in fact the basses I have tried with higher action have always sounded worse. Besides, I'm pretty sure you could get the same tone by overdriving the amp or something similar.

My view is that people get into bad habits and then rather than change, they adjust their action to suit.

But anyway I was very careful to say that "for me" there is no objective reason to have a high action. I can see that if you have played 20-30 years with high action and "digging in" then it is probably easier to raise the action - but I can objectively see no reason whatsoever for me to do this.
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BRUISED SEINFELD,

I caught the "for me" part the first time around, but I still have to agree with FUNGUS about the subjective part: in my case (and for a lot of other doublers I know) I prefer heavier strings and slightly higher action because it makes the transition from DB easier for both of my hands, even though I choose to play free strokes on BG a lot for tone reasons.

Just last week I was on a doubling gig, and because of an impromptu request, we had to play a groove jazz tune (I believe the correct classification of the tune's style is "Big Booty Swing") in the set where I had already switched from DB to BG. I started playing and couldn't get the right sound with the settings I was using, so I rolled back the volume, rolled the tone back a bit, and dug in with my right hand like a pit bull in a tug 'o war, and that got me closer to the sound I was hearing in my head. I wouldn't have been able to do that with low action, and I couldn't have gotten that sound by using electronics, since the sound is created by a very thumpy attack and a WIDE vibration of the string.

Don't get me wrong - I have no illusions that that sound would be appealing to everyone - but it is appealing to me in certain situations, so I find higher action to be quite beneficial. Also, as I said, when you are switching directly from DB (where the string height/thickness/tension is monstrous) to BG with no chance to warm up or adjust, it sure is nice to be able to minimize the difference a bit.


Peace,

DURRLY MAN
 
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