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Double Bass the ideal eub?

Matthijs

Supporting Member
Jul 3, 2006
2,247
1,154
Amsterdam
So I've been using my wav4 regularly for more than a year as a substitute bass for rehearsals and 'special circumstance' gigs. My 1930 Tsjech bass remains my main instrument, but the EUB is very usefull and I even like the 'not quite db' sound. So I'm not on a impossible quest for a eub that sounds exactly like a db. I know that's impossible. Still, I think it can be better.

Foremost I find it really irritating that my wav4 feels different. I would really like to have a EUB that has a neck exactly like my DB, has a real volute at the right spot, has a neckheel you can actually lean on, has a endpin that's at the exact axis as my DB and balances in your hand like an actual DB. I would be really forgiving on the sound, as long as I could get all that.
Why is it that al EUB's have to be flat. The wav is just a stick, but also the upmarket eminences are just a shallow representation of how a db feels. Is it protability? I don't really care about extreme portability, I'd much prefer to be able to hold it loosely in my left hand without it turning over.

Sure I also fantasise about it sounding exactly like my beautifull URB. It should be possible to get closer to a DB sound too. Almost every EUB I've tried or seen is built as a brick, while a URB absorbs sonic energy as a black hole. Everything moves and resonates on a DB, while most EUB's are one massive log with endless sustain.

This got me thinking. What if one would build a EUB with an actual full size neck heel that extends down, along the line where the back of a DB would be and bend forward to where the tailpiece normally would be. as in the attached clumpsy sketch:

eubbasschets 001.JPG

This would result in a bass that would balance like a real DB and make an endpin construction possible that's on the same axis. Also if the bridge would rest on a top that bridges between the neck heel and the 'tailpiece', and that top would not be very thick I'd think that would possibly make for a sound that's more influenced by the wood.

Am I making sense with this design (if you can call this a design)? I know it would be big compared to a lot of EUB's, but not that much bigger. It's still very flat if seen from the front, as long as there's a removable side bout. I think it would still be pretty portable.

I don't have the money, and the serious need to actually go out and build this thing now, or ask someone to do it right now. It just might be a nice idea to try one day though.

Although I'm sure, this being talkbass, someone is going to come along in 5 minutes with a picture and a link to a luthier in Panama who has been making this exact bass for 20 years now and there are already 8 threads on the subject and suggests I do a search first.
 
Too bad Azola's are out of business. Steve had several different models, one of which would fit your bill. My UltrAcoustic Bugbass is great, and I use that for Orchestra practice when my upright is out of commission, or for bar gigs. It sounds like an upright with a real upright feeling neck.
Here's a pic of a couple Azola basses - the Bugbass is on the right. I can't remember the name of the one on the left. It might be an Ultracoustic Baby Bass.
 

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I like how those look and I've seen the positive feedback on the bugbasses. Haven't actually seen one on this side of the ocean though. There are more similar looking EUB's out there, but don't you think them still being fairly flat, and the endpin in the wrong spot makes them feel a lot different from the real thing? whenever I practise with my Wav, I find my whole posture is different.
 
This bass was built by John Styklunas for Boston/Cambridge bassist Blake Newman who is playing it below. John also builds EUBs with hollow sound chambers and many other variations. Actually, when I look at this one, it looks like it may have a floating top but I'm not sure.

lowellfest_blake.jpg


While this bass does not have every feature you mention, it is much more like a real DB than anything made by NS.
 
EUBs with a side rest are usually stable methinks.

It's not as if it's falling out of your hands, but it's still different from having a neck heel you can actually lean on while chatting to the drummer during breaks.

Obviously the Czech ease answers almost all of my questions, I'd have my doubts about slinging one on my back and cycling with it through Amsterdam though.
 
This bass was built by John Styklunas for Boston/Cambridge bassist Blake Newman who is playing it below. John also builds EUBs with hollow sound chambers and many other variations. Actually, when I look at this one, it looks like it may have a floating top but I'm not sure.

While this bass does not have every feature you mention, it is much more like a real DB than anything made by NS.

That one I've never seen before, sure looks like a floating top. It's still flat though :smug:

Well anyway, from the massive response I gather my 'vision' is not shared by the community. All that's left is quitting my day job, building this thing and astound you all with the result.
 
I do understand what you are talking about and your drawing is pretty clear. You may have to go through a few iterations to get the balance right. Not sure about the endpin position and angle but these days people fool around with those even on acoustic DB. How do you visualize the appearance of your design from the front view? Do you see it as skinny at the bottom and wide only at the top maybe using shoulder extensions, wider overall or maybe also with lower extensions?

BTW I do think I have somewhere seen a bass that resembles your design but I can't remember where. It is bugging me but I so far cannot recall. Maybe it will pop into my mind when I am thinking about something else.
 
I do understand what you are talking about and your drawing is pretty clear. You may have to go through a few iterations to get the balance right. Not sure about the endpin position and angle but these days people fool around with those even on acoustic DB. How do you visualize the appearance of your design from the front view? Do you see it as skinny at the bottom and wide only at the top maybe using shoulder extensions, wider overall or maybe also with lower extensions?

BTW I do think I have somewhere seen a bass that resembles your design but I can't remember where. It is bugging me but I so far cannot recall. Maybe it will pop into my mind when I am thinking about something else.

The front view will be skinny, the maximum being the with of the bridge. It should have a detachable side bout/extention on the top of the body: following the contour of a db.
 
Still waiting forthat guy in Panama though :p

Some really nice alternatives have been suggested, but nothinh that's exactly as deep as a URB.

I know there are lots of EUB's out there that wille be a lot better that my WAV4 and have necks that are identical to a URB, it al stops at the heel though. Anyway I'm having some extra problems with my WAV right now, so I'm actually considering upgrading. Lot's of choices out there, but I'm still reluctant because I consider my EUB as a practice instrument, id rather spent money on gigging gear.

By the way I've found this as a possible alternative: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It's a local URB luthier, who makes his own take on a EUB. Looks good to me at a reasonable price. And I've been very content with the repair jobs he has done for me some time ago.
 
Did some extra backup-browsing in the Gollihur pages and on Sanders EUB site. I think the closest to my ideal is the big Alter Ego. It doesn't show on all the pictures, but on their website you can see the neck heel is almost as deep as a real DB.

The pretties one must be the ARS EUB. I Think that's the most beautifull bodyshape I've ever seen for a EUB. It has a really weird endpin placement though.
 
Isn't that the one with the top that almost looks like a cardboard cutout of a db ? :smug: I really love how it sounds, and how he just left some of the important bits of a db and removed the rest. It seems a bit fragile though, and probably out of my price range.

I'm going to have to bite the bullet: either just suck it up and tolerate my WAV a bit longer or fix a budget I'm going to spend on a new EUB, or building my own design.
 
I wonder if there is a practical way to mount an upper bout and neck heel extension, maybe attached to the NS stand. Make it adjustable so that you could clamp it on and adjust it to rest in the proper position behind the neck. I don't know if it is a crazy idea but it is something I have thought about periodically. Of course then you may want to switch from the stand to an endpin...

S
 
So I've been using my wav4 regularly for more than a year as a substitute bass for rehearsals and 'special circumstance' gigs. My 1930 Tsjech bass remains my main instrument, but the EUB is very usefull and I even like the 'not quite db' sound. So I'm not on a impossible quest for a eub that sounds exactly like a db. I know that's impossible. Still, I think it can be better.

Foremost I find it really irritating that my wav4 feels different. I would really like to have a EUB that has a neck exactly like my DB, has a real volute at the right spot, has a neckheel you can actually lean on, has a endpin that's at the exact axis as my DB and balances in your hand like an actual DB. I would be really forgiving on the sound, as long as I could get all that.
Why is it that al EUB's have to be flat. The wav is just a stick, but also the upmarket eminences are just a shallow representation of how a db feels. Is it protability? I don't really care about extreme portability, I'd much prefer to be able to hold it loosely in my left hand without it turning over.

Sure I also fantasise about it sounding exactly like my beautifull URB. It should be possible to get closer to a DB sound too. Almost every EUB I've tried or seen is built as a brick, while a URB absorbs sonic energy as a black hole. Everything moves and resonates on a DB, while most EUB's are one massive log with endless sustain.

This got me thinking. What if one would build a EUB with an actual full size neck heel that extends down, along the line where the back of a DB would be and bend forward to where the tailpiece normally would be. as in the attached clumpsy sketch:

View attachment 198232

This would result in a bass that would balance like a real DB and make an endpin construction possible that's on the same axis. Also if the bridge would rest on a top that bridges between the neck heel and the 'tailpiece', and that top would not be very thick I'd think that would possibly make for a sound that's more influenced by the wood.

Am I making sense with this design (if you can call this a design)? I know it would be big compared to a lot of EUB's, but not that much bigger. It's still very flat if seen from the front, as long as there's a removable side bout. I think it would still be pretty portable.

I don't have the money, and the serious need to actually go out and build this thing now, or ask someone to do it right now. It just might be a nice idea to try one day though.

Although I'm sure, this being talkbass, someone is going to come along in 5 minutes with a picture and a link to a luthier in Panama who has been making this exact bass for 20 years now and there are already 8 threads on the subject and suggests I do a search first.

The Eminence is a nice instrument too.
it is an acoustic bass. Just narrower and equipped with a pickups.
They come with a "bolt on" neck or with a traditional set neck.
Records well too!

Link:
http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1430-EMINENCE_ELECTRIC_UPRIGHT_BASS.html
 
I wonder if there is a practical way to mount an upper bout and neck heel extension, maybe attached to the NS stand. Make it adjustable so that you could clamp it on and adjust it to rest in the proper position behind the neck. I don't know if it is a crazy idea but it is something I have thought about periodically. Of course then you may want to switch from the stand to an endpin...

S

Now that's an interesting idea. I'm already using the endpinstand, although it's broken at the time. A dummy heel and bout, attached to the stand might work and might also help with the problems I'm having with the sideways tilt in the NS stand. Must be my playing style, because nobody else seems to have this problem. Whenever I really dig in I tend to pull the neck towards me and the connection to the stand isn't tight enough to stop that.

It should be possible quite easilly to connect a bar to the endpin stand that extends upwards to a fake heel that fits around the neck. I'm definetely going to try this. I have to go to Berlin for a week, afterwards I'll give it a try.