The Les Paul Twins

[theFixer]

They are certainly useful when the headstock is cut from the solid with the neck. I find it strange that Makers such as Gibson make their necks that way instead of using a scarf joint, the joint doesn't really add that much time to the build, well I say that but I suppose in a production environment it probably does. Still it's a stronger method of joining the headstock. I may have mentioned I once made a couple of test pieces years ago to see which was strongest, I cut one of each and then stood on them. The Gibson type headstock just broke but the scarf joint held my weight, to me that speaks volumes

How does Gibson do theirs?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I once made the regrettable error of mentioning that fundamental short grain problem about T-Birds on the T-Bird Club! Needless to say, although it’s perfectly true, the T-Bird Tribe was not amused. No excuse for that kind of fundamental woodworking error, any competent carpenter would avoid that, not to mention a company that’s been making guitars as long as Gibson.

 

[Christine]

How does Gibson do theirs?

They use a thick neck blank and cut the whole thing out of it as one piece. I think it must be a lot cheaper to throw away the large offcut than spend the time cutting and glueing the scarf joint. The problem with the Gibson method is that there is lots of short grain at a point where the neck is narrow and naturally weak, hardly a surprise they get broke

 

[Christine]

I once made the regrettable error of mentioning that fundamental short grain problem about T-Birds on the T-Bird Club! Needless to say, although it’s perfectly true, the T-Bird Tribe was not amused. No excuse for that kind of fundamental woodworking error, any competent carpenter would avoid that, not to mention a company that’s been making guitars as long as Gibson.

Well I'm one of the Tbird tribe and I totally agree, I don't understand that at all after all the breaks and associated bad press about it. So easy to address too

 

[Christine]

Web page here about different joints Headstock and Scarf Joints Explained - Glued to Music

 

[GonePlaid]

I once made the regrettable error of mentioning that fundamental short grain problem about T-Birds on the T-Bird Club! Needless to say, although it’s perfectly true, the T-Bird Tribe was not amused. No excuse for that kind of fundamental woodworking error, any competent carpenter would avoid that, not to mention a company that’s been making guitars as long as Gibson.

Unfortunately, all of us TBird owners are acutely aware of that problem to varying degrees. Some are more sensitive about it than others. I had a very bad break(there was nothing I could have done to prevent it short of stringing barbed wire). I had it fixed-what else could I do? The parents of the little hellions that ran through the band stand didn't even apologize for their kid's actions-big surprise.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Could be mistaken, but I believe the reason Gibson still does necks that way is “tradition” and the usual dose of lutherie voodoo. Oddly enough, if the neck joint was improved, I’m also sure people would complain about that too. Undoubtedly loss of “tone” or some such.

 

[GonePlaid]

Could be mistaken, but I believe the reason Gibson still does necks that way is “tradition” and the usual dose of lutherie voodoo. Oddly enough, if the neck joint was improved, I’m also sure people would complain about that too. Undoubtedly loss of “tone” or some such.

Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope.

 

[Christine]

Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope.

You just spoil folk you do! A new rope?

 

[TundraMan]

Could be mistaken, but I believe the reason Gibson still does necks that way is “tradition” and the usual dose of lutherie voodoo. Oddly enough, if the neck joint was improved, I’m also sure people would complain about that too. Undoubtedly loss of “tone” or some such.

+1

In fact I would speculate that it's Gibson's customers driving them to do things the "way they've always done it." If their customers started demanding they fix their "headstock disease" and stopped buying instruments until such time, Gibson would do it. But the customers want the Gibson tradition and that includes the wasteful and breakage prone angled headstock one piece neck.

 

[GonePlaid]

You just spoil folk you do! A new rope?

It's a Southern thing

 

[Englishman]

+1

In fact I would speculate that it's Gibson's customers driving them to do things the "way they've always done it." If their customers started demanding they fix their "headstock disease" and stopped buying instruments until such time, Gibson would do it. But the customers want the Gibson tradition and that includes the wasteful and breakage prone angled headstock one piece neck.

For sure. During the 70s they put volutes on the necks and were forced to drop it in the 80s because of the 'traditionalists'.

 

[Jisch]

It doesn't seem that Gibson's decisions overall have been very good considering their recent bankruptcy filing.

 

[Christine]

Let's not turn this thread into a Gibson knocking thread or I'll stop posting updates, hint, hint

 

[Jisch]

Sorry, please continue with the updates!

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I didn’t know Gibson ever tried volutes. I’m sorry to see their current troubles, always loved LP’s and SG’s in particular. I can see how customer conservatism would drive even bad design. Gibson isn’t alone in that respect, the Ric headstock is really fragile with short grain and a big TRC pocket for the double (unnecessary IMO) truss rods. But if they added a volute, or changed to a single modern DA rod, many Ric owners would howl with derision. I have yet to try a scarf joint, lots of different techniques discussed/demonstrated here and on YouTube. Looks simple enough, but I’m guessing it’s harder than it looks to get a perfect joint.

 

[Englishman]

I didn’t know Gibson ever tried volutes. I’m sorry to see their current troubles, always loved LP’s and SG’s in particular. I can see how customer conservatism would drive even bad design. Gibson isn’t alone in that respect, the Ric headstock is really fragile with short grain and a big TRC pocket for the double (unnecessary IMO) truss rods. But if they added a volute, or changed to a single modern DA rod, many Ric owners would howl with derision. I have yet to try a scarf joint, lots of different techniques discussed/demonstrated here and on YouTube. Looks simple enough, but I’m guessing it’s harder than it looks to get a perfect joint.

74 SG and 79 The Paul. Great guitars.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Sorry, Christine. Didn’t mean for that to happen. I, for one look,forward to your updates so pleeease continue.

 

[Christine]

I didn’t know Gibson ever tried volutes. I’m sorry to see their current troubles, always loved LP’s and SG’s in particular. I can see how customer conservatism would drive even bad design. Gibson isn’t alone in that respect, the Ric headstock is really fragile with short grain and a big TRC pocket for the double (unnecessary IMO) truss rods. But if they added a volute, or changed to a single modern DA rod, many Ric owners would howl with derision. I have yet to try a scarf joint, lots of different techniques discussed/demonstrated here and on YouTube. Looks simple enough, but I’m guessing it’s harder than it looks to get a perfect joint.

Actually its very easy, just stack the two bits like the video's show and use a very fine cut on a small plane like a block plane until it's square across its width. The fiddly bit is glueing, stopping the bits sliding around

I've been wondering of late about Rics and truss rods, why they don't use a spoke wheel adjuster at the heel and save removing all that wood at the headstock join; I guess the comments about owners is probably close to the mark in some respects

 

[Christine]

Sorry, Christine. Didn’t mean for that to happen. I, for one look,forward to your updates so pleeease continue.

I don't mind discussion about the joint, I was just worried in case it went off track as often happens