But mostly notaded "C2", no? To me, the sus implies a 4th too.
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The way I've always understood/used the "sus" suffix is that it represents a suspension of the 3rd of the chord and shows which note is replacing it. Thus, in C "sus4" would mean CFG and "sus2" would mean CDG. To my way of thinking, it flows directly out of traditional theory where suspensions are labeled together with their resolutions (i.e. 4-3, 6-5, 9-8, 2-3, etc.). The difference in chord symbol notation is the lack of resolution in the chord symbol. Taken this way, sus2/sus4 could imply either major or minor suspensions (which would affect the "in the cracks" solo changes implications) depending on the context of what is around them.
I'm not at all fond of the nomenclature "...sus2". I like to reserve the term "...sus" for specifying the "4th" on a Dominant 7th chord. ("D7,9,13,sus" first chord of Maiden Voyage, for example.)
Nothing "Sus-penseful" about an added "2" on a Cmaj triad!
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.
This is my understanding too (except for the Cma triad. With C2 or Csus2 there is only C, D, G, no major triad implied).
Until the "Jazz Theory Nerds" elect/appoint a "Supreme Leader/(Pope??) of the Jazz Theory Nerds", (with a mandate to codify centuries of "Jazz Chord Nomenclature Ambiguity", once and for all), these sorts of "Tomato/Tomahto" discussions will go on, (Ad Nauseum?) long after Jazz Has Been Dead. (Tick-Tock...)
(jk!)
Thanks.
(jk!)
Thanks.
I truly doubt that any so called “Jazz Theory Nerd Supreme Leader” could change your opinion.
That’ why I enjoy reading your comments.
When I write "Cadd2...." I AM implying a major 3rd - this has been my understanding, that Major is assumed, unless otherwise specified. This is why I DON'T like the slash chord "Cadd2(omit3)/Eb", as it is really an "Ebmaj7,add6", in my world.
For a minor tonality, I would write "Cmin,add2" or "Cmin,add9" - no ambiguity re: Maj vs. Min.
Thanks, Fredrik.
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Agreed - "If I were WRONG, don't you think I would KNOW IT??" (Sheldon Cooper???)
(jk!)
Thanks, WUTP.
You have already found your “Note” in Music, you can write your own script.
By the way, you have mentioned add6.
Here is my question.
In Teen Town, Zavinul plays at the beginning chord/s (ascending)
C - E - A - C, ...
Is it C6 or C6(omit5)?
Or it’s some inversion of pure Aminor triad?
Mark Levine points out in his Jazz Theory book that a sus4 chord can include both the 3rd and the 4th and is commonly voiced that way by pianists and guitarists, as long as the 3rd is the higher voice - making a Major 7th interval with the 4th. Great voicing, IMO.
For that reason, the sus2 seems kind of vague to me. I suppose the most explicit is C2(omit 3rd) but I think if I see a "C2" I'll assume that the composer didn't want a 3rd otherwise they would have written CMaj9 and C2 is as short as it can be while still being pretty specific.
For that reason, the sus2 seems kind of vague to me. I suppose the most explicit is C2(omit 3rd) but I think if I see a "C2" I'll assume that the composer didn't want a 3rd otherwise they would have written CMaj9 and C2 is as short as it can be while still being pretty specific.
"Where" in Teen Town is this chord? What is the Root of this (arpeggio?).
I need to know.
Thanks.
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In my world, the composer will specify "omit3" when necessary - If not, a major 3rd is assumed for "C2" or "Cadd2" or "Cadd9".
In my world, writing "...maj9" assumes that a maj7 is also present - much like writing Maj7 assumes the lower parts "1,3,5...". This is how I was taught and it is a very reliable and consistent system for those of us who know how it operates.
The highest chord # assumes ALL lower chord #'s, unless the term "ADD" is present - "ADD" means adding only that note. So, "C9 add13" is a Dominant 7th chord consisting of C, E, G, Bb, D, A - in some pleasing combination or voicing.(NEVER just Stacked Thirds! YUK!)
In My World - is now - "IMW"!
IMFO/IMW
Thanks, Tom.
John Goldsby
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- Mar 4, 2003
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Jamey Aebersold wrote a paper on chord nomenclature many years ago — it was a call to standardize chords. But, of course jazz keeps evolving, so the way composers and musicians notate chords keeps stretching. When Jamey wrote his paper, there were competing publishers who had developed their own chord symbols sets: Berklee, Advance Music, Sher Music, Hal Leonard, etc.
Just when we think we've got the "best practices" for defining standard jazz harmony, someone comes along and plays some fantastically weird sound, and they write a chord symbol for that sound. — I've worked with players who have invented symbols for 12-tone "Metatonal" chords (Randy Sandke), and composers who have codified the harmonies of Oliver Messiaen for jazz performance (Hubert Nuss). It's all valid, but I think there will always be discussions between composers and improvisors about "What did you mean when you wrote this chord symbol."
Darcy James Argue, arguably one of the foremost big band writers of the era, weighed in on chord symbols on the Finale website. I think the future of codifying chord symbols dwells in the domain of the notation software companies (as @Chris Fitzgerald discussed a few posts back).
It's worth downloading Darcy's chord symbol chart, even if you don't agree with everything he does:
Darcy James Argue on Chord Symbols. Click on the link the middle of the page.
Possible show title:This discussion suggests a new reality TV show... battle of the music notation composers! Each week, a bunch of composers have their compositions played and the one with the most deviations from the composer's intent is eliminated! They could have puppies and crocodiles and cheerleaders too!How cool would it be to see Herbie running over a pool full of crocs while Dolphin Dance is butchered?
"America's Got Real Books!"
Also - can the Mods re-title this Thread - "NerdGate"? ("...the discussion is always worse than the chart".)
(jk!)
Thanks, fellow Nerds.
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What's your view on Roemer/Brandt? I know Sammy Nestico use their work as basis for his notation.
Until I figure out if the Cmajor chord is copyrighted...
https://wpmedia.finalemusic.com/wp-.../1B-4-Chord-Symbols-and-Harmonic-Analysis.pdf
Dear Darcy James,
If you have nothing else to do in your life,still - do not waste your precious time fighting Chord Symbol spellings.
https://wpmedia.finalemusic.com/wp-.../1B-4-Chord-Symbols-and-Harmonic-Analysis.pdf
Dear Darcy James,
If you have nothing else to do in your life,still - do not waste your precious time fighting Chord Symbol spellings.
OK.
YOU are hearing only the "moving upper parts" of the Full Chord that is sounding there - for example:
In the first measure of the Intro - you are hearing 2 (alternating) triadic shapes (lowest to highest) -"E-A-C"/"D-G-Bb", BUT underneath this structure is C (root in the bass voice) and E and Bb, so the AGGREGATE Harmony is basically C9add13.
The "E-A-C" has NOTHING to do with Aminor or Cadd6, because the "C7 or C9" quality overrides those analyses. (Same with the "D-G-Bb" triad...it is just part of C9....)
You need to always consider ALL notes that are present, and it really helps to hear "Bottom to Top", so that your ear processes (and compares the upper notes in relation to...) the Root (or lowest note) of the structure, and doesn't make things more complicated than necessary.
IMFO/IMW.
Thanks!
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