The modes are dangerous black magic!

[chea-pass]

Y'all should read this book!
(actually, get the audio version)

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Lesson-Spiritual-Search-Through/dp/B003OXTOQ6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33WC3Q96FD7AH&keywords=the+music+lesson+victor+wooten&qid=1573920366&sprefix=the+music+lesson,aps,213&sr=8-1

 

[Malcolm35]

Modes are fun to play with and interesting to analyze in compositions and bass lines. But when someone hand me a chord chart, I'm thinking roots, chord tones, and passing tones - not modes.

Yep, the part we play in modes will probably involve laying down a modal vamp of the chords needed to sustain the modal mood of the improv, or solo, the guitar guy is playing.

Whole different World from our ole I-IV-V bass lines.

 

[India_Sierra]

The big breakthrough for me was chord tones, something that I was inspired to study after listening to Jeff Berlin. For years I had been trying to approach improvisation through scales. I'm not talking about blowing over changes, but just a means of getting a few notes under my fingers that allowed me to deviate slightly from the original bass line. I could pick notes that fitted the music but ultimately, seemed to say nothing about what I was trying to play. Getting into chord tones and learning the specific notes to target made a huge difference to my playing. Now I could do more to move the harmony of a piece with four notes employed over a chord rather than a string of notes from a scale.

 

[DavC]

it's just playing the same scale starting on a different note within the scale ... ?!

i started on these back in the 70's when moving from classical piano more into jazz ...

for me , i focused more on the key/scale and the current chord ... along with your listening skills .. !!

i'd work on all 12 keys ... playing the normal 4 note voiced chord and the appropriate scale with the other hand ..
while learning both the number ( I in C = Cmaj7 , II = Dm7 , etc )

on bass and guitar , i also like to ad the 4 note arpeggios for those chords , .. along with the key scale starting on a different note = modes ...

but , again , i concentrated more on ear training/listening , than memorizing the Mode names .. !

 

[BassDad1964]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

You just convinced me to learn 'em too.

 

[comatosedragon]

I Don't Picture Laughing My Ass Lucky

Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian

Killing People Can Often Feel Good Sometimes

Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species

 

[bcbassman]

Focus on chord tones not modes. Your understanding of what notes to play under a given chord is far more valuable than trying to fit a set of changes to a particular mode. Are you going to change modes on each chord change? If not then you are going to be playing a lot of wrong notes and never really knowing what is right or wrong.
Chord tones is what music theory boils down to. It makes your life much easier as a bass player.
Modes keep music teachers employed and do very little for musicians who actually perform music.

 

[Bassaga]

I absolutely don't get modes or what they are or why they mean anything, but I like to think that someday I'll have that moment too, where it'll all come together and blow my mind. So hey, good job and congratulations!

 

[BassBrass]

Your experience is exactly what Oliver Saxe used to study...he was a story collecting neurologist (played by Robin Williams in Awakenings) with a fascination for the effects of music and how savants and others experience it. I don't know if studying modes had anything to do with moving into an alternate but valid state of consciousness...maybe somebody micro-dosed you by mistake?

 

[vanderbe]

I found the fingerings in Jimmy Haslip’s Melodic Bass Library invaluable for learning the modes.

Jimmy Haslip's Melodic Bass Library

 

[lat]

I love those moments!!

Few and far between for me right now... Keep on keepin' on...

 

[noeinstein]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

Inspiring!

 

[CapnSev]

Once you study them and kind of get a feel for how they sound, you start to realize that you’ve been hearing and playing them for a long time.

 

[Malcolm35]

Several posts back we talked about changing modes with the chord changes. And yes that's not accomplishing anything.

If modes are moods. How many moods does the song portray? Probably one, so pick the mode that gives that mood and play it through out your improv or modal solo.

Treble clef for the modal notes.
Bass clef for the chord vamp that augments the mode you picked. Remember that is normally the tonic R and then the chord that has the signature note of the mode you are playing.

Lydian = #4 for a major day dreamy feel and sound.
Mixolydian = b7 for a Latin sound.
Dorian = natural 6 for an attractive jazz sound.
Phrygian = b2 for a Middle Eastern sound.
Locrian = b2 and b5 for a dark and tense sound.

If you vamp has those signature notes that is the sound you can expect from your modal vamp.

Question is are you playing modal notes or chord vamp notes? Are you playing the modal solo or are you providing the modal harmony? We normally do not do both.

I think that one point is what is missing in all the misinformation, i.e. play your "chord tone bass line", but, make sure it's from a modal vamp and not a I-IV-V tonal chord progression. Or play your modal melody using the melody notes in your mode.

Happy trails.

 

[Spectrum]

Killing People Can Often Feel Good Sometimes

Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species

There's one I learned in the military about the color bands on resistors. This is the clean version:

Bad Boys Race Our Young Girls Behind Victory Garden Walls, Get Some Now

Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Black Violet Grey White, Gold Silver No_Color

 

[Clark Dark]

I've been playing music for decades, multiple instruments, multiple genres/styles, I've somehow never gotten around to learning the modes. But I want to improvise melodic bass lines (and actually lead-like lines behind my wife), so decided to start studying them. I wasn't even sure why other than "people say I should."

So for a few weeks I've been focusing on nothing other than Mixolydian vs. Lochrian vs. Whatthehellisallthisian and trying to internalize Anthony Wellington's comment about stop thinking about the application, just learn it. I still don't *really* know why I'm learning it, but I keep going.

Ya'll remember that part of Harry Potter before he learns he's a magician when crazy stuff happens around him? Yeah, that kinda happened last night.

My wife was practicing a song I'd never heard of. I didn't know the key and usually I would have her print out or tell me the key and/or chord chart. But I quietly figured out a few notes while she was playing and thought "This feels like Locrian." Suddenly, the camera shifted, and the lights dimmed, and the world turned inside out.

All the notes were lit up and laid out on my bass. I was just playing with her. Not perfect, but I was there! I still didn't know what key the song was in, but I could just play. After a minute, I realized I could pay attention to the tension of the song rather than know the chord, and feel like I knew where in the pattern to play. Here's tension, here's release. I didn't even really know the notes I was playing.

Then she stopped, and the camera shifted back to normal.

Ya'll that was scary!

I remember someone here saying the modes "are not scales" and I'm starting to understand why they said that. I mean, it's just a scale, but it's not. I started studying modes thinking "This is sort of dumb, I could just be practicing scales, this is the same thing." But it's really not. If the scales are like science, the modes are like dangerous black magic.

Admit it...
It was damned sexy wasn't it

 

[frankie5string]

I prefer to call them chord scales. They're really just scales and you're starting off at a different scale degree over top of a chord. Those mode names are absolutely rediculous, though. They sound like diseases or ancient afflictions a topical cream may have been purchased for to deal with.

Academically, people can't even agree on the application of modes in modern Western music.
Somehow guitar players adopted the idea of chord scales into their wank, I mean solo toolboxes and seem surprised when someone else points out their clam notes. "It's modal, mannn!"

Most of the time, we bass players are concerned with chord tones. Chord tones certainly make for the most musical passages through changes.

 

[JimmyM]

I prefer to call them chord scales. They're really just scales and you're starting off at a different scale degree over top of a chord. Those mode names are absolutely rediculous, though. They sound like diseases or ancient afflictions a topical cream may have been purchased for to deal with.

Academically, people can't even agree on the application of modes in modern Western music.
Somehow guitar players adopted the idea of chord scales into their wank, I mean solo toolboxes and seem surprised when someone else points out their clam notes. "It's modal, mannn!"

Most of the time, we bass players are concerned with chord tones. Chord tones certainly make for the most musical passages through changes.

Do I agree with this 100%? Yes I do. I'd still learn them, though. Yes, the names are creepy, and I rarely if ever use them, but they do give you food for thought, especially if you want to do something a little bit out there. And then when you've got them down, forget about them when it's time to make music.

 

[bcbassman]

Modes were originally described by the ancient Greeks and they predate music theory or chords as we understand it today. If you want to explore modes as an academic exercise, go for it. Start on each step of a given major scale and play it until you reach the same step an octave higher. I am of the opinion that doing so is a waste of time.

You will get much better as a player if you understand chords and their composition and what you should be doing as a bassist to support the changes in a particular tune.
That is the valuable musical information that you should be working to internalize as a player.

 

[Wasnex]

Modes are moods of a scale. Want a specific mood, grab the mode that gives that mood.

Most of this deals with the chords used, modal harmony does not resolve, there is no I-V cadence in modal. Modal is usually a two chord vamp of the tonic and then a chord that has the signature note of the mode you want. Lydian's signature note is the #4 so your second vamp chord should contain a #4 note in it's make up.

There is modal and tonal. 97.5% of what we do is tonal, the good ole I-IV-V chugging under a tonal melodic solo...

Unless you, are one of your solo instruments, is using modes for their improv, forget about modes, there is plenty of tonal stuff to keep you playing...Trying to play modal over a I-IV-V progression does nothing to call attention to the modal sound. To hear the modal sound you need a modal vamp to play your mode over.

Modes of the major scale
using the parallel method.
​

Ionian R-2-3-4-5-6-7 same as the major scale.
Lydian R-2-3-#4-5-6-7 Change one note.
Mixolydian R-2-3-4-5-6-b7 Change one note.

Aeolian R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 same as the natural minor scale.
Dorian R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7 Change one note.
Phrygian R-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Change one note.
Locrian R-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7 Change two notes.

Hit the big E string and let it ring. Play E Lydian then E Dorian over the droning E string. Hear the difference.

I think what you were hearing was Mixolydian over a dominant seven chord progression -- and or modal vamp. Most of the time this gives a Latin sound.

Do a Google on modal harmony.

For the most part I have used the study of modes to gain a more thorough understanding of Major and pure Minor key signatures. But you can analyze modes into Harmonic and Melodic minor scales as well. Too much for my simple pea brain to keep track of. But if I could memorize and keep all of the relationships in place, it would be a very useful tool for analyzing chord progressions.

From a solo standpoint, modes do have some value as well. In practicing modes you recognize fixed box shapes on the fretboard. So if you really know your modes and how they relate to the various diatonic 7 chords, you can overlay the modal boxes over the chords and play without thinking about the notes. Again, too much for my little pea brain.

Pentatonic scales can be used in pretty much the same way. For example, often a minor 7 chord functions in a ii to V relationship in a chord progression, so the ii is dorian mode if the implied key center is major. Say the chord is Dmin7, then you can play D pentatonic minor (D,F,G,A,C), A pentatonic minor (A,C,D,E,G), or E pentatonic minor (E,G,A,B,D) and all three pentatonic scales fall within D dorian, which I think of as the natural D minor scale with a #6. Note the cycle of 5th relationship with the pentatonic scales, D to A to E. Also keep in mind the major and relative minor pentatonic scales contain the same notes. So D pentatonic minor (D,F,G,A,C) is the same notes as F pentatonic Major (F,G,A,C,D). If you really have this stuff memorized you could play the same notes in any inversion. Again, too much for my little pea brain. But if I work on these concepts slowly, it informs my ears with new sounds.