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the myth of modes
- Thread starter HandsFree
- Start date
I don't get what you are disagreeing with.
If a song is in C major and doesn't throw in any non diatonic chords then you simply play in C.
You're not playing modes and you neither need to know them or think in them.
You need to know the chord tones, which are the strong tones, and then know the intervallic relationship that the other notes in C have to those chord tones.
I see each mode as unique. Not a variant of the diatonic equivalent. I am a bit out of my league here in theory. I do understand the importance of the modes and their study and the power it has for popular music. I'll let you guys carry on here with the more advanced discussion.
That is correct and why only in examples like the classical piece above are people really playing modally. The F functions as the I.
You could think of what they are doing as playing in a whole new key of F that also happens to have no sharps and flats.
Can you give an example of a popular song that is modal?
It is very rare. Assuming there are any.
What are your thoughts on "Evil Ways" by Santana? Modal or tonal?
What about "Royals" or "Sweet Home Alabama"? Modal or tonal?
What about a pop song based on 12-bar blues?
Wow. I'm in trouble. I'm just trying to meticulously go through the book,
"Exploring modal subversions in alternative music" by CHRIS McDONALD.
Now I need to forget any mentioning to MODES (and its derivatives)and try to replace it with WHAT???
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That authoring is fitting those songs to a modal grid retroactively. Those writers were almost certainly not using modal thinking to write those songs.
They were actually doing much more what the early jazzers did: whatever they thought sounded good with no respect or even awareness of the rules while following a few trends of the genre.
I'd have to see the music of those first two.
The 12-bar blues are certainly not modal. The chords are functioning in their normal diatonic context: I-IV-V of the parent key.
What about all those songs in relative minor? That has to count. Many of the metal songs I like are minor. Prog stuff I like is often in a mode. I would have to research specific examples for bands like Dream Theater.
I like this thread. Lots of smart thinking and no petty nonsense.
I mostly play with guitarist/singer/songwriters who write songs I really like but don't really know what they're doing. They're what some might call 'crap guitarists'. One thing I like about playing with them and that they like about playing with me is that I often know the chord they intended but don't know enough about music to have actually played, so I get to make that chord happen in the bass. And that gives our music an odd sort of quality, because most of the ear-pricking gets done by me. I also add harmony vocals for the same reason - to embellish some of the things they left out.
Don't get me wrong these guys aren't idiots and they are really prolific creatives, they just don't understand what they're doing. They write way better songs than me! I feel lucky that they let me modify them.
I mostly play with guitarist/singer/songwriters who write songs I really like but don't really know what they're doing. They're what some might call 'crap guitarists'. One thing I like about playing with them and that they like about playing with me is that I often know the chord they intended but don't know enough about music to have actually played, so I get to make that chord happen in the bass. And that gives our music an odd sort of quality, because most of the ear-pricking gets done by me. I also add harmony vocals for the same reason - to embellish some of the things they left out.
Don't get me wrong these guys aren't idiots and they are really prolific creatives, they just don't understand what they're doing. They write way better songs than me! I feel lucky that they let me modify them.
Prog stuff does have a lot of true modal stuff. It is a generalization, but the closer to jazz a music is the less modal stuff you'll find and the closer to classical the more.
Minor can be modal, but the same "rule" applies: note/chord function, not simply note/chord choice, dictates whether a song is modal or not.
All songs use the notes of a mode, so they are all "in a mode", but that doesn't make them modal.
I understand modes but I find them useless for making music. Why?
1. Using scales to play sounds like you're using scales to play, and that to me is zzzzzzzz time. The only one I find truly useful is the chromatic scale.
2. The chords tell you the important things you need to know.
1. Using scales to play sounds like you're using scales to play, and that to me is zzzzzzzz time. The only one I find truly useful is the chromatic scale.
2. The chords tell you the important things you need to know.
I have little doubt that the classical and Satriani/Johnson stuff is modal, but it also is not really what I would label as popular music.
But I doubt many of the others, assuming they even do fall into modal thinking when analyzed, were composed thinking about modes and one certainly doesn't need to understand modes and certainly not waste one's time learning to play the patterns as such to play those songs......which is the whole point of the OP: the obsession with modes is silly, even when they are using the term properly.
But I doubt many of the others, assuming they even do fall into modal thinking when analyzed, were composed thinking about modes and one certainly doesn't need to understand modes and certainly not waste one's time learning to play the patterns as such to play those songs......which is the whole point of the OP: the obsession with modes is silly, even when they are using the term properly.
Scales and modes is very much a part of that music. Perhaps even grew out of that kind of study.
As Music teacher I have to disagree with you. In Pop music if you understand modes and the key your in, you hopefully will not play any (bad) notes when connecting one chord to another. If you only play root or tonic all the time then you may not understand. I have heard too many young or inexperienced bass players come to me for lessons because they have no clue what chords really mean in a progression aND how to con next them in a bass line wit hour pla Ying ror all the time or sounding like they are jus pla Ying scales. The first thing I learned was the modes and how they work with the chords in the music. When I played in Southeastern Louisiana Universe Jazz Band and Middle Tennessee State University Jazz Band I had to read written parts as well as Chord Changes in a piece. Knowing the modes helped me from playing crappy bass lines that did not fit the Chord. Players who play don't know how to connect chords in their bass lines sound like they "have no clue" or occasionally get "lucky". Miles Davis I believe once said you learn all the theory and then you toss it aside and play (I believe he meant that's after you get a solid understanding of music theory). Miles also wasn't playing basslines. When a bass player is off "Everybody knows it".
One of my Theory Teachers is college told the composition class one day, "If it sounds good it is good regardless of all the rules of music composition.
On a topic like this I wish we were in a classroom to explain and give examples rather than typing (it's so impersonal.
Good Luck in your musical journey
One of my Theory Teachers is college told the composition class one day, "If it sounds good it is good regardless of all the rules of music composition.
On a topic like this I wish we were in a classroom to explain and give examples rather than typing (it's so impersonal.
Good Luck in your musical journey
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If you play jazz(y) stuff (whatever that is) you know that note choice is a matter of context
I'm always using M & m 3rds over the same changes and as quoted there's the flavor of the tri tone plus the 6th 7th tension
I'm always using M & m 3rds over the same changes and as quoted there's the flavor of the tri tone plus the 6th 7th tension
I wrote a song in F and I used a D7 in it.
