@Razman how is the F# setup working out? Is it truly a novelty like everyone always says, or are you getting use out of that setup? I'm asking because I too am interested in that tuning, but hesitate because of the modifications required to make it work.
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The Official 7-String Bass Club.
- Thread starter Watchootognbout
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@Jack Deth I know you didn't ask me, but anyway: I haven't tuned my 7-string to F#, but I have a couple of 5-strings tuned to G standard (half step up from low F#), and I use those a lot in my main band. To me, the low G string sounds good, and is audible even through a dense mix with distorted guitar and busy drums. I use a .166 string from Kalium.
Hey Jack, I'd be glad to detail my thoughts on it. TL,DR version: I don't think I'll ever go back (famous last words??) For my contexts it's more useful; however, if you are a very melodic player and like venturing into guitar territory, having that high F is really useful for sevenths and chords and all that stuff. I need to stay out of that area, so the low F# works better for me. And it's a great thumb rest too!
I haven't had the opportunity to use it in my metal band much yet (COVID) but since my church is still operating (albiet at a reduced schedule) I really enjoy using it in that context. Having a low B higher up on the fretboard is handy, in the same way one would play an E on the B string. Every so often we'll end a song on A or G, and I can reach down and play the lower octave to add body and feeling to the end of a song. Or play it during the song and see my drummer smile (he has in-ears and can hear me very well). It's very usable.
When it was strung with a low B, it was a bit of a stretch to use it a lot (see what I did there?) and I would get fatigued occasionally. Having the strings shift towards the other side of the neck makes it feel more like a six string bass, and I just need to reach occasionally if I want to. I like that part a lot - but my brain is still making a metal shift, similar to when I jumped from a four to a five, but this time it's not as difficult. It's just that it doesn't feel natural to me yet, so I'm trying to play it a lot. When I do pick my six string back up and noodle on it the neck feels much narrower.
Overall I'm very pleased and the Kalium strings feel great. Skip told me that the .200 F# set is probably the best compromise between tension and harmonics; we had a long conversation about string size, mass, scale length, etc. and his main point is that you can't fool physics. Increasing the size of the string reduces harmonic content; extending scale length helps with this as you can use a thinner string while keeping the tension up (hence the 39" scale of his Knuckle basses). If money ever becomes a non-issue, I'd be willing to look into a multi-scale 7 to leverage those advantages, but it would have to be a custom build from someone.
That big of a string makes it look like a cable off a suspension bridge but it's actually pretty flexible and feels good. The HF driver in the combo I play through is out so I don't hear much definition on stage, but it sounds pretty good through other amps I've used. Most of the tone from that string is from the harmonic content anyway, so being able to reproduce the fundamental isn't necessarily that helpful.
The only other adjustment I've made is that I need to mute it while playing a lot of the time so I don't get extra rumble through our system; it can do that if you aren't paying attention. It's not hard to do and becomes natural over time, as I was doing a lot of that on the sixer.
Some time ago I had reached out to Conklin and they sell nut blanks on their site, so you can keep yours original or, if after the modification, you can go back if you want. I purchased a needle file set from Lowe's and did it when I changed my strings, it wasn't that hard. Initially I had a little hesitation but it was worth it and a lot of fun. I just kept missing that low A or G - having it is nice, and if I need to play in higher registers I can just travel up the neck a little.
So there you have it, let me know if you have any other questions.
Eric
All of my basses are top loaders, with the exception of one - a four string. Since I like using thicker gauges it's the only way to do it, especially with a five string.
This makes nice basses like Musicmans and G&L's off the GAS list (mostly) but there are plenty of options and right now I'm set. I think....
As a test, I restrung my cheap Alvarez 6 string to be: F# B E A D G. I used a D'Addario XLB170T for the F# along with their EXL165-5 set for the rest. I absolutely love it. My only problem now is the crappy electronics which are almost completely shot, and my Hartke HD508 does not do the fundamental any justice. Still though... man I'm sold. Side note, the .170 barely fit through the bridge. So, I lucked out and didn't have to use the file set to open it up.
Awesome price on a used BT747 that looks like-new if anyone is interested; $399 + tax + ~$20 shipping
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For some reason GC images never load on my iPhone. So I downloaded the GC app and it immediately crashes whenever I open it (left them feedback). Sad, because I would jump all over this if the electronics are good. My Alvarez that I put the F# on finally crapped out last night squealing. It has those J style pickups and EMG does not make 6 string version J pickups I could drop in. I found a company that will build some, but seriously, it's a $200 bass so like, yeeaahhh...
Here's the one direct image URL I could figure out how to extract that wasn't so tiny it was worthless.
GC says Condition:Great (which we know is worthless), but if you have a GC nearby, you can always return it for full refund (sometimes they refund the $20 shipping, sometimes not, but that's a small price in my mind to try a guitar and return it)
https://media.guitarcenter.com/is/i...-Bass-Guitar/000000116207699-00-1600x1600.jpg
Just clicked on the link and the site says "out of stock" so someone scored it. Keep looking and you'll find one.
That said, what's wrong with your Alvarez? Is it the pickups or the preamp? I put a Tone Monster three band pre w/sweepable mids in my Douglas recently because its preamp started getting flaky and now it sounds great again. Fix it and rock it!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114303783969?ViewItem=&item=11430378396
One would be hard pressed to do better at this price - these are great, clean sounding preamps!
Raz
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Sadly, my Alvarez is passive, and has J style 6 string pickups (and pickup wells). Seriously, it's not worth the effort. So after finding a 35" scale ESP LF415 on Reverb that comes with EMG40DC's, and then getting an offer from the seller on it, I just pulled the trigger. The reason I strung the Alvarez with the .170 F# in the first place was because I considered it my most "disposable" axe. Not entirely happy to lose the G string, but F# B E A D should cover about everything I need.
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In fact, for a B string or lower, the fundamental is not important and does not need to be reproduced, the lowest important harmonic to reproduce is the 2nd harmonic, which for F# is 46Hz.
'fEarful' cabs are specifically designed to handle F#, are tuned to 46Hz, and are designed to reproduce 46Hz very solidly. The designer, Greenboy, has stated that the fundamental of such low notes is unimportant.
The fundamental of a bass guitar string is weak compared to the 2nd and higher harmonics (because it is plucked near the end, not halfway along their length) so contributes little to the final sound.
Usually, for lower pitches, what you think you hear as being the fundamental is actually the 2nd harmonic, because the 2nd is louder and the 1st is also harder to hear.
For B and below, the frequency of the fundamental becomes so extremely low it becomes increasingly useless to have present in music, hard to hear, hard to reproduce.
For example, the fundamental of B0 is 31Hz, that is not reproduced by most amplification, but it still sounds good and it is perceived as a lower pitch, even though you are not reproducing sound below 62Hz.
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I went to an outside concert in Memphis years ago when I lived there, seems like it was called "Music Fest". Cheap Trick was coming on stage, which literally had walls of cabs on both sides. I was sitting about 100 feet back, and dead center of the right side "wall". The bassist came out with what I later found out was a 5 string and thumped the B string. It literally took your breath. I though the bolts were going to back out of the wooden bleacher we were standing on. Not long after that I heard Black Sabbath for the first time and chose the bass to play. I thought 4 strings looked awesome (and still do), but once I later found out it was actually the B string that took my breath I vowed to reproduce that one day.
Jack Deth, i misinterpreted your posts, sorry. They sounded like the very common misunderstandings of the fundamental related to low tuned bass guitars. You really are after the fundamental and understand what that is.
Although low tuned bass guitars sound fine without sub-amplification and without the fundamental, some musicians like to reproduce the fundamental too (which is fine, i do not criticise that).
(Years ago i spent a lot of time on the various Extended Range Bass forums, communicating with Skip of Kalium (before Circle K Strings existed), Greenboy of fEarful, Yves Carbonne, Garry Goodman, Stew McKinsey etc. Of course since then on general bass guitar forums i have seen the same misunderstandings concerning low tuned bass guitars repeated many times, sometimes i attempt to inform.)
Although low tuned bass guitars sound fine without sub-amplification and without the fundamental, some musicians like to reproduce the fundamental too (which is fine, i do not criticise that).
(Years ago i spent a lot of time on the various Extended Range Bass forums, communicating with Skip of Kalium (before Circle K Strings existed), Greenboy of fEarful, Yves Carbonne, Garry Goodman, Stew McKinsey etc. Of course since then on general bass guitar forums i have seen the same misunderstandings concerning low tuned bass guitars repeated many times, sometimes i attempt to inform.)
F is a little difficult using a wound string, because a small gauge like .020 or .022 is required, which then results in a very thin core wire which can barely withstand the tension. So wound Fs are often fragile.
The advantage of a plain .018 (equivalent tension to a wound .020) is that it is .018 of solid wire so is very strong, you can go crazy with bending.
Many roundwound .020s or .022s not specifically designed to be a bass guitar F will break, and i expect many guitar roundwounds will break as they are designed for a lower tension.
Conklin Guitars sell dedicated wound Fs by mail order. These probably have a larger core wire.
The complaint of loudness, brightness and tonal inconsistency of plain Fs is common, but i have a suggestion from my own experience of using thin wounds and plains on bass guitars:
It seems to help to reduce the gauge of the plain a little to result in significantly less tension than the wound next to it. The lower gauge reduces volume, the lower tension reduces brightness, resulting in a better tonal blend with the wound strings.
For example try a plain .017 or .016 (some guitar plains may be just long enough, thread a detached bass ferrule onto one to make it anchor in a bass bridge).
An additional advantage is that a thinner plain is more flexible, so is less inharmonic and has better tone. Plains of .018-.020 are really stiff rods of metal.
No worries, I too misinterpret postings, as does pretty much everyone from time to time. It's an issue of context, lack of gestures due to condensed written words, and sometimes plain old assumptions based on the way something is written. In short, it's an Internet communications issue that pops up all over the place (especially social media platforms with limited text space).
I realize it's not a 7, but the ESP arrived yesterday and I restrung it after work. I played until 1:30am this morning, and got that "can't stop playing" thing until my eyelids refused to stop dropping. That F# through the EMG 40DC pickups absolutely nails the sound that is in my head very, very closely (using headphones). I had a thought: tune down 2 frets to get back to E A D G C so it's one octave below a standard E1 bass. On a 7 string it would be E A D G C F Bb if I'm not mistaken. The D'Addario .170 is a tad too small tuned at E0, tried it and started getting mud. I hesitate still to restring my BTB7, even at standard F#, because I doubt the pickups would hang with those EMGs (I'm spoiled now). Guess I need to work on getting a full stack now to see if I can achieve that "breath-taking" feeling. Anyone know of the right head to handle it that isn't made from unobtanium? I'm considering the 1000w Hartke with two of the HyDrive 410s as I seriously dig the Hartke sound, but unsure it will make the cut below B0.
