The Official 7-String Bass Club.

[Razman]

I realize it's not a 7, but the ESP arrived yesterday and I restrung it after work. I played until 1:30am this morning, and got that "can't stop playing" thing until my eyelids refused to stop dropping. That F# through the EMG 40DC pickups absolutely nails the sound that is in my head very, very closely (using headphones). I had a thought: tune down 2 frets to get back to E A D G C so it's one octave below a standard E1 bass. On a 7 string it would be E A D G C F Bb if I'm not mistaken. The D'Addario .170 is a tad too small tuned at E0, tried it and started getting mud. I hesitate still to restring my BTB7, even at standard F#, because I doubt the pickups would hang with those EMGs (I'm spoiled now). Guess I need to work on getting a full stack now to see if I can achieve that "breath-taking" feeling. Anyone know of the right head to handle it that isn't made from unobtanium? I'm considering the 1000w Hartke with two of the HyDrive 410s as I seriously dig the Hartke sound, but unsure it will make the cut below B0.

Sounds like you had a good time! Do some research on Mike Arnopol's cabs (or search for MAS here in TB). They are expensive when new but very reasonable second-hand. As for an amp, I'm always biased towards class A/B topologies and not class D. GK 1000rb has the oomph needed for serious transients, but I'm not sure how they perform within the realm of really low frequencies that you are trying to generate. A lot of amps have baked-in filtering that won't let you reproduce those sub-lows. Preamp into a power amp possibly; can't help you there.

I do know the Acoustic 370 I had would wiggle the drivers in the 2x18 cab I had when I would manually vibrate the low B with my hand, so they would reproduce it!

Raz

 

[Jack Deth]

The D'Addario .170 is a tad too small tuned at E0, tried it and started getting mud.

I ordered a Kalium balanced .192 set and am going to try the E0 tuning. If they work, I might pull the trigger on a 7 string set for the BTB7 once I'm satisfied they come through without mud. I'm hoping the pickups in the BTB7 are close to the EMGs, otherwise might have to rethink my strategy.

 

[Razman]

I ordered a Kalium balanced .192 set and am going to try the E0 tuning. If they work, I might pull the trigger on a 7 string set for the BTB7 once I'm satisfied they come through without mud. I'm hoping the pickups in the BTB7 are close to the EMGs, otherwise might have to rethink my strategy.

Any update on your experiment, Jack?

 

[InNoRush]

Tried to join the club today and failed. Bought a BTB747 online, but the store rep called me later in the day to say the only reason they still had one in stock was that the headstock was badly damaged. He was willing to sell it "at cost" for $650, but I passed. Gotta wait for a restock, as every place I look is out.

 

[Jack Deth]

Any update on your experiment, Jack?

Strings came in this morning, will work on restringing this evening. I have done some research and found a study on a pro audio blog that shows 30Hz is roughly the point in the spectrum that you feel sound in the chest area (like I did at the Cheap Trick concert). The study found that near(ish) towards 20Hz you feel it in your head and neck way more than the chest. So by going lower, I may actually be defeating my goal of "taking your breath away". That said, I am overly pleased with the sound of F# at this point, and playing my standard 4 string feels really lacking now, like it's a toy or something.

 

[Jack Deth]

I need a rig to handle the fundamental more than my current one. I realize it would cost me $10K+ or more in pro audio equipment to get to a better place that realizes it to the extent that you can say "yeah, I definitely hear it now", but the second harmonic is really what I need to go after anyway. There are vids online showing 20Hz in action, and it truly does move the legs of your pants. One vid showed an empty soda can bouncing around on the floor in front of the sub.

 

[Jack Deth]

Any update on your experiment, Jack?

I installed the .192 and tuned it up to F# to get it seated good in the bridge and on the tuner. I then lowered it back to E and it felt great! I began to stretch the string as I always do by lifting up on it in various places and snap. The core broke just above the nut halfway to the tuner. Since that string is so fat, I may have been pulling up harder than I realized to stretch it out as the thickness makes it hard to tell. However, it was only lifting about 1 inch off the fretboard. I know that when stretching the F# (which I put back on successfully) I used what felt like the same force. I suppose the wider a string gets, it could in theory be harder to tell how much force you are actually applying since the string does not "cut" into your fingers as much as thinner ones do. I know the difference between the .170 and .192 is definitely noticeable, like a typical B string is to the regular E string. So... back to the drawing board for a while, and next time I'll view it as being more fragile during the install. In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to live with it being tuned up to F#.

 

[Gibson Victory]

Tried to join the club today and failed. Bought a BTB747 online, but the store rep called me later in the day to say the only reason they still had one in stock was that the headstock was badly damaged. He was willing to sell it "at cost" for $650, but I passed. Gotta wait for a restock, as every place I look is out.

Keep the faith, things will work out !!!!

 

[Razman]

That's a bummer about that string! I stretch mine a little also but didn't want to push my luck so I only did so mildly when I installed mine and didn't have a problem. Contact Skip and see if he'll help you out with another string or something.

As a test, I restrung my cheap Alvarez 6 string to be: F# B E A D G. I used a D'Addario XLB170T for the F# along with their EXL165-5 set for the rest. I absolutely love it. My only problem now is the crappy electronics which are almost completely shot, and my Hartke HD508 does not do the fundamental any justice. Still though... man I'm sold. Side note, the .170 barely fit through the bridge. So, I lucked out and didn't have to use the file set to open it up.

I need a rig to handle the fundamental more than my current one. I realize it would cost me $10K+ or more in pro audio equipment to get to a better place that realizes it to the extent that you can say "yeah, I definitely hear it now", but the second harmonic is really what I need to go after anyway. There are vids online showing 20Hz in action, and it truly does move the legs of your pants. One vid showed an empty soda can bouncing around on the floor in front of the sub.

So you have a HD508, four 8" in a combo? I just got back into 8" speakers with a Henry 8x8 cab. I've also got my eye on a Henry Jr. local to me. How is your Hartke working out for you?

To reproduce that fundamental and do it in such a manner that doesn't break the bank you need to find some old Peavey stuff, preferably 18's, and some old PA power amps. Or some older Mackie SW1801 powered subs and just daisy chain them off the DI of your rig (there's a guy here selling one for $100 that's missing the amp).

I think it would be a fun experiment to try and cause some local seismic action around here lol.

Raz

 

[J Posega]

I installed the .192 and tuned it up to F# to get it seated good in the bridge and on the tuner. I then lowered it back to E and it felt great! I began to stretch the string as I always do by lifting up on it in various places and snap. The core broke just above the nut halfway to the tuner. Since that string is so fat, I may have been pulling up harder than I realized to stretch it out as the thickness makes it hard to tell. However, it was only lifting about 1 inch off the fretboard. I know that when stretching the F# (which I put back on successfully) I used what felt like the same force. I suppose the wider a string gets, it could in theory be harder to tell how much force you are actually applying since the string does not "cut" into your fingers as much as thinner ones do. I know the difference between the .170 and .192 is definitely noticeable, like a typical B string is to the regular E string. So... back to the drawing board for a while, and next time I'll view it as being more fragile during the install. In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to live with it being tuned up to F#.

I've never been one to stretch strings like that. Install them, tune them to pinch, then give them a press down with the meat of your thumb right in front of the bridge saddle and on either side of the nut. This creates a good witness point. Stretching doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me unless you were a tech restringing a guitar for use on stage ASAP. String it and play it for a few minutes, retune, play, retune.

 

[Aidil]

Strings came in this morning, will work on restringing this evening. I have done some research and found a study on a pro audio blog that shows 30Hz is roughly the point in the spectrum that you feel sound in the chest area (like I did at the Cheap Trick concert). The study found that near(ish) towards 20Hz you feel it in your head and neck way more than the chest. So by going lower, I may actually be defeating my goal of "taking your breath away". That said, I am overly pleased with the sound of F# at this point, and playing my standard 4 string feels really lacking now, like it's a toy or something.

Could you show us how the strings taper on the bridge side?

 

[Jack Deth]

Could you show us how the strings taper on the bridge side?

Poor lighting but visible.

[EDIT: past my fingers just a bit is another wrap where it gets thicker]

[EDIT2: just realized you asked for bridge side, I'll add that...]

 

[Jack Deth]

Could you show us how the strings taper on the bridge side?

Bridge side taper. The bridge has the quick feed slot in it so you don't have to feed the strings through the hole. Taper was fine on the bridge and didn't create an excessive angle.

 

[Jack Deth]

That's a bummer about that string! I stretch mine a little also but didn't want to push my luck so I only did so mildly when I installed mine and didn't have a problem. Contact Skip and see if he'll help you out with another string or something.



So you have a HD508, four 8" in a combo? I just got back into 8" speakers with a Henry 8x8 cab. I've also got my eye on a Henry Jr. local to me. How is your Hartke working out for you?

To reproduce that fundamental and do it in such a manner that doesn't break the bank you need to find some old Peavey stuff, preferably 18's, and some old PA power amps. Or some older Mackie SW1801 powered subs and just daisy chain them off the DI of your rig (there's a guy here selling one for $100 that's missing the amp).

I think it would be a fun experiment to try and cause some local seismic action around here lol.

Raz

Yeah, I've never installed strings and not stretched them (maybe my very first time).

The Hartke holds its own, but you can tell it's designed for mid range punch and for the treble in popping. Don't get me wrong, it shakes the windows, but I've heard real bass before and it's missing that lowest grunt. At least that's my assessment anyway. I was considering a pair of PJB C8's since they advertise them at 25Hz, but had to hold on that for now.

I spoke to Skip last week and he agreed the .192 should be the perfect string for the E0. In fact his balanced set that I ordered puts all the strings right at 36lbs tension when tuned E A D G C. Since I did stretch the string when it snapped, I'll just order another rather than pester him over something he had no control of.

 

[Jack Deth]

I've never been one to stretch strings like that. Install them, tune them to pinch, then give them a press down with the meat of your thumb right in front of the bridge saddle and on either side of the nut. This creates a good witness point. Stretching doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me unless you were a tech restringing a guitar for use on stage ASAP. String it and play it for a few minutes, retune, play, retune.

Got the string in, installed and pressed it to create the witness points as you stated, worked great thanks! I'll never stretch a string again.

E0 has a different feel to it entirely, not just 2 semitones lower. It sounds absolutely deadly through my headphones, but I have to admit, the F# has more [some unknown adjective] to it. I'm thinking I should string the BTB7 up with the F# tuning, and keep the E0 tuning on the 5'er. It's too late to play through the amp right now, I'll decide tomorrow if E0 is a keeper or not.

 

[Jack Deth]

SUNN(O))))))

I got around to listening to them and you are spot on, at least I think you are referring to the band and not the amp/cabinet. I read they tune drop A a lot, not sure how low they go exactly. I can tell you this much, with my iPhone charged at 80% I could feel the screen vibrating when playing their stuff - big surprise it can even reproduce some of that. I know for certain it was reproducing at least A0 notes. In just 8 of their (really long songs) my battery dropped to 2% while trying to handle that much low stuff. Very interesting concepts they have.

 

[Jack Deth]

Any update on your experiment, Jack?

Ok, so I've had a bit of solid time on the bass tuned E0 now. I've tried it clean and with both a Revv G3 and G4, all of which are using compression. The G4 set to red channel (insane distortion) sounds the best, even above pure clean, because you can still really tell there are different notes in there as you move up (most of the time). Here's my prognosis: after testing my hearing with a tone generator using headphones, I find that for me personally there is a steep decline followed by a cliff after A0. The E0 tuning is so low that when you move a few frets up or down its hard to tell anything is different, so it has fallen beyond the ledge of the cliff. You can tell some notes are different, it just doesn't seem like half steps and whole steps all (most?) of the time. Once I get to A0, BAM! Everything sounds 100% correct all of the time. As I said, there is a decline before the actual cliff that falls off into a void. Thus, the lowest I found that I could go and still have reasonably discernible notes that sound pretty good is the F#. Using a tone generator I found that I can hear down to 15Hz. It's super faint, but it's there. A0 is where the volume really finds itself again. F# is where you can tell the volume is beginning to fade away. All of this is me personally, and everyone has different ranges so YMMV. I guess it's time to apply the F# tuning to the BTB7. I'm going to miss the open A0 string though...

 

[Razman]

Ok, so I've had a bit of solid time on the bass tuned E0 now. I've tried it clean and with both a Revv G3 and G4, all of which are using compression. The G4 set to red channel (insane distortion) sounds the best, even above pure clean, because you can still really tell there are different notes in there as you move up (most of the time). Here's my prognosis: after testing my hearing with a tone generator using headphones, I find that for me personally there is a steep decline followed by a cliff after A0. The E0 tuning is so low that when you move a few frets up or down its hard to tell anything is different, so it has fallen beyond the ledge of the cliff. You can tell some notes are different, it just doesn't seem like half steps and whole steps all (most?) of the time. Once I get to A0, BAM! Everything sounds 100% correct all of the time. As I said, there is a decline before the actual cliff that falls off into a void. Thus, the lowest I found that I could go and still have reasonably discernible notes that sound pretty good is the F#. Using a tone generator I found that I can hear down to 15Hz. It's super faint, but it's there. A0 is where the volume really finds itself again. F# is where you can tell the volume is beginning to fade away. All of this is me personally, and everyone has different ranges so YMMV. I guess it's time to apply the F# tuning to the BTB7. I'm going to miss the open A0 string though...

Interesting observations. I've been playing my 7 quite a bit so it is beginning to feel more natural to me now (relying on muscle memory more and finding that I'm hitting the notes I want and thinking about finger placement less). Our band should start practicing soon so I'll be able to use the fiver and six string more, and practice going back and forth. Any time I pick up the six after an extended stint with the 7 the neck feels much narrower.

 

[Jack Deth]

Additional info: I've ordered an 8 string guitar to lay down rhythm tracks (concepts mainly) so that my brother, who lives about 5-6 hours away, can add lead guitar to my bass tracks. He plays (shreds really) a 6 string, so it's pretty vital to have some semblance of a rhythm he can add to. The 8 works perfectly since it's F# based.

 

[InNoRush]

Woo! The BTB747 came! I finally get to join the club! Updated profile pick to show all three.

I played with it for 30 minutes to test it out, then went back to my old bass for comparison and it felt like a toothpick.

Never played anything other than a 4 string before, so of course let's jump straight to 7!