The official gym & weightlifting thread! rep #2

[jmattbassplaya]

Here's the rub with all this (and this is in no way an attempt to proclaim anything said here is wrong): I've read a ton of so-called facts on nutrition and I've never come across any set-in-stone, all-experts-agree, undeniable "fact" regarding the amount of protein the body can absorb "at once". What does that even mean, anyway? In one minute? In ten minutes? In an hour?

True, but if you read enough and do your best to filter out crap sources from legitimate sources you'll eventually notice a good amount of overlap with what's being said (IME). While there is no 100% right answer for nutrition and weightlifting (because let's face it, our bodies are all different and have different needs), there are better answers. What you need to do is find these better answers, average them out some, and then figure out where in the range you should be aiming for for your goals and body type.

 

[Darth Handsome]

True, but if you read enough and do your best to filter out crap sources from legitimate sources you'll eventually notice a good amount of overlap with what's being said (IME). While there is no 100% right answer for nutrition and weightlifting (because let's face it, our bodies are all different and have different needs), there are better answers. What you need to do is find these better answers, average them out some, and then figure out where in the range you should be aiming for for your goals and body type.

That goes without saying.

What my point was is that it's easy to assume certain things are facts when they might not be, especially when they've been repeated a few times.

 

[1958Bassman]

I know that I'm wasting some of what I take in. I'm fine with that. I just want to insure there is no protein deficit. Those same people are also the ones who have been training for years and complain that they're still a pencilneck, yet can't figure out why.

Could it be possible that the ones who work hard and eat right but see no real results have low testosterone levels?

 

[buzzbass]

Could it be possible that the ones who work hard and eat right but see no real results have low testosterone levels?

depending on age, sure. But I doubt that's much of an issue for anyone say..under 35. I currently have been diagnosed with low t-levels and I am looking @ suplementing what my body makes. All through a legit endocronologist (sp?). Depsite the fact that my t-level hovers around 200, I'm still making gains @ 50 yrs old. 400-800 is considered the good range, from what I'm told by the doc. I think what was posted a few posts above is correct. There are no hard and fast rules that apply to everyone. There are some general rules that work for most folks, but it's really up to you to dig in and find what works best for YOU. Everything I posted works well for ME. YMMV.

 

[buzzbass]

PS, it could also be that those folks just have a very high metabolism and need to reasses what they're doing too. There was an old school bodybuilder (Casey Viator perhaps) who used to say, "there's no such thing as overtraining, just under eating". There's probably a lot of truth in that too. That and the fact that most folks probably do far too many sets, which also saps your recover ability.

 

[1958Bassman]

I saw a commercial for a fast weight-loss deal on TV and the guy lost some ridiculous amount, so they showed the before and after photos. He was wearing shorts in the after photo and it looked like he had the legs of a bird. He wasn't even big-boned. Little, skinny twigs & knock-kneed, which tells me that he did absolutely nothing, other than sit and eat. Even an active fat person will develop the muscle needed to haul their butt around but this guy had absolutely nothing. It also tells me that this was strictly a weight-loss gimmick, not a lifestyle change.

Too many people want a pill to bulk up and one to become skinny, all with zero effort.

Too bad this has become 'The American Way'.

(I hope nobody says we're un-American for going through all of the work to become stronger/thinner and healthier)

 

[1958Bassman]

PS, it could also be that those folks just have a very high metabolism and need to reasses what they're doing too. There was an old school bodybuilder (Casey Viator perhaps) who used to say, "there's no such thing as overtraining, just under eating". There's probably a lot of truth in that too. That and the fact that most folks probably do far too many sets, which also saps your recover ability.

By "too many sets", so you mean they're totally exhausted and sore, or because they use more energy than they take in?

I'm trying to figure out why I haven't actually been sore for more than one day in the whole time since I started working out. My muscles are usually fatigued and I can feel the burn, it definitely gets my heart rate up and overall, I'm working out harder than I ever have but the soreness/tightness hasn't happened. From previous experiences, I have been sore for days, either from a workout or from my job (I see this as a definite benefit- it can be grueling work at times, but I get paid to do it) but, while I feel the difference in how solid I feel, I'm not tight, I haven't strained anything and I would have thought it would hit me harder now that I'm 55.

FWIW, I'm not working with big weight, but I am doing fairly high reps and before, it didn't matter how I worked out (high weights or reps)- I would be sore.

Any clues?

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Doing too much work in general can be counter productive, you need to find the right balance (in terms of work and consumption) for your frame and metabolism so that you can keep moving forward.

For instance, if you strain yourself so much that you can't lift in the gym for 3-4 days, you're at least being sub-optimal in terms of training, at worst, counter productive! And I'm sure we've all had at least one over-zealous squat session that has rendered walking difficult for the best part of a week!

 

[Chebass88]

By "too many sets", so you mean they're totally exhausted and sore, or because they use more energy than they take in?

I'm trying to figure out why I haven't actually been sore for more than one day in the whole time since I started working out. My muscles are usually fatigued and I can feel the burn, it definitely gets my heart rate up and overall, I'm working out harder than I ever have but the soreness/tightness hasn't happened. From previous experiences, I have been sore for days, either from a workout or from my job (I see this as a definite benefit- it can be grueling work at times, but I get paid to do it) but, while I feel the difference in how solid I feel, I'm not tight, I haven't strained anything and I would have thought it would hit me harder now that I'm 55.

FWIW, I'm not working with big weight, but I am doing fairly high reps and before, it didn't matter how I worked out (high weights or reps)- I would be sore.

Any clues?

Yes, your body is conditioned to that level of output. Your goal should not be soreness in every workout. Increasing the load conservatively over time will get you stronger. For example, doing sets at 80% 1RM (80% of the weight you lift for a max single) will still be difficult, but it is not as straining as a maximum single.

This is only an example, but for squats, I recently switched to doing 8 sets of doubles, adding one rep per workout, until I completed 8 sets of triples, and then increase the weight by 10lbs. When I first switched to this style, I was very sore. I have done this twice per week since December, and have zero soreness. In terms of the weight - I am doing sets at 370lb, when my max single (training, tested in January) is 455lb.

If I lift heavy enough to induce soreness - that just means I screw up the next session or two, which I am not willing to do.

 

[buzzbass]

By "too many sets", so you mean they're totally exhausted and sore, or because they use more energy than they take in?

I'm trying to figure out why I haven't actually been sore for more than one day in the whole time since I started working out. My muscles are usually fatigued and I can feel the burn, it definitely gets my heart rate up and overall, I'm working out harder than I ever have but the soreness/tightness hasn't happened. From previous experiences, I have been sore for days, either from a workout or from my job (I see this as a definite benefit- it can be grueling work at times, but I get paid to do it) but, while I feel the difference in how solid I feel, I'm not tight, I haven't strained anything and I would have thought it would hit me harder now that I'm 55.

FWIW, I'm not working with big weight, but I am doing fairly high reps and before, it didn't matter how I worked out (high weights or reps)- I would be sore.

Any clues?

Both actually....

Volume workouts, as in too many sets per. bodypart, only sap you recovery abilities. Sore for a day or two after is just about right, longer than that and you did too much. Remeber the body needs to recover 1st, before it can over compensate(grow) for the loads placed upon it. Volume training burn all your body's reosurces to the point that the over compensation cannot take place. The idea is to stimulate growth,, not annihilate your muscles. They can't grow, if you don't allow them to recover 1st.

 

[1958Bassman]

Doing too much work in general can be counter productive, you need to find the right balance (in terms of work and consumption) for your frame and metabolism so that you can keep moving forward.

For instance, if you strain yourself so much that you can't lift in the gym for 3-4 days, you're at least being sub-optimal in terms of training, at worst, counter productive! And I'm sure we've all had at least one over-zealous squat session that has rendered walking difficult for the best part of a week!

My plan is this- I want to lose weight and get into better condition. I screwed up both shoulders (in '07, I made my right arm rotate like a slot machine, only it went backward and in '08, I slipped on a tiny patch of ice on my driveway- when I was on my way down, I grabbed my lap belt next to the door jamb of my truck) and then I sprained the shyte out of my right ankle in about '07 when I stepped on a piece of angle iron in the dark. Last fall, I tried to make my right leg bend sideways and it still bothers me at times, so I don't do squats with weights- I weigh 285 (I'm 6'2" but not built like a balloon animal- I'm sure you have seen the type) now and every squat I do is more than most people EVER do. Those injuries were bad enough but I really couldn't take the time off work for surgeries, so I basically rested everything and let them heal as much as possible on their own. The left shoulder is only occasionally sore, but it tends to click a bit when I lift anything really heavy or do things like bench press or pushups. I can't lose the time working if I injure myself again (I work for myself), so I started out slowly with the weights, although I'm usually lifting more than others I know who are similar in age whether working out or at work. I tried doing some pushups Friday night and it wasn't really a problem doing them but my left shoulder was clicking on every one and I didn't want to try my luck. I have lifted to the point of not being able to continue and usually have rubber legs after the workouts but I can't really afford to be so sore that I can't work, either. I have a pretty good idea of what will make me sore and stiff, usually. Not this time. Not sore at all and I'm working out in some way 3-6 days every week, not that I'm complaining- just wondering why I would be sore when I was younger and not now. If I concentrate on weights most days, I do more aerobic exercises at least one day and even if I'm not at the club, I work my legs every day. I was doing he steps at the lakefront one at a time, but started taking them two at a time and it's not only a more intense workout but is works ALL of my legs instead of mainly the quads, calves.

I started at 297 (I saw my profile that day and was disgusted, then appalled when I weighed myself). Two weeks later, one of the trainers did an initial consultation (comes with membership) and I had lost a few, but was already wearing jeans and shorts that I wasn't able to for about a year, so I know I had lost some. It included weighing me, measuring chest, upper arm circumference, chest, height, waist and measuring body fat with an electronic device ( I assume is uses capacitance/resistance, or something) Last week, I had another consultation- the goal was to lose 10 lb, an inch from my waist and 1% of body fat- I lost 5 lb, 2-1/2" from my waist and 2.5% body fat in 6 weeks without killing myself. I don't want to be bulkier- I already nailed that. What I really want to do is lose the weight and then see what's left & make it better.

 

[1958Bassman]

Yes, your body is conditioned to that level of output. Your goal should not be soreness in every workout. Increasing the load conservatively over time will get you stronger. For example, doing sets at 80% 1RM (80% of the weight you lift for a max single) will still be difficult, but it is not as straining as a maximum single.

This is only an example, but for squats, I recently switched to doing 8 sets of doubles, adding one rep per workout, until I completed 8 sets of triples, and then increase the weight by 10lbs. When I first switched to this style, I was very sore. I have done this twice per week since December, and have zero soreness. In terms of the weight - I am doing sets at 370lb, when my max single (training, tested in January) is 455lb.

If I lift heavy enough to induce soreness - that just means I screw up the next session or two, which I am not willing to do.

So, if I use more weight, it breaks down/stresses the muscles more and that's what causes the soreness? I thought it was from a lot of lactic acid. I used to do a buttload of concentration curls with low weight dumbbells and my left arm would be killing me for a week when I was in my teens. I want to avoid that, so I use 30 lb DB and don't do enough to kill my arms. They're fatigued by the time I'm done, but not useless.

I have used a bathroom scale when I did pushups before and I'd estimate that when I do pushups now, it's like benching over 200 lb.

 

[1958Bassman]

Both actually....

Volume workouts, as in too many sets per. bodypart, only sap you recovery abilities. Sore for a day or two after is just about right, longer than that and you did too much. Remeber the body needs to recover 1st, before it can over compensate(grow) for the loads placed upon it. Volume training burn all your body's reosurces to the point that the over compensation cannot take place. The idea is to stimulate growth,, not annihilate your muscles. They can't grow, if you don't allow them to recover 1st.

I think I'll just keep going this way, with incremental increases. At this point, I feel like I'm just in better condition, rather than being treated like a farm animal. I'd still like to speed up the weight loss, though. I'm cutting down on carbs, although not completely. I already eat a lot of fruit and veggies, so I'll add protein to offset the carbs a bit and find some happy medium.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

My plan is this- I want to lose weight and get into better condition. I screwed up both shoulders (in '07, I made my right arm rotate like a slot machine, only it went backward and in '08, I slipped on a tiny patch of ice on my driveway- when I was on my way down, I grabbed my lap belt next to the door jamb of my truck) and then I sprained the shyte out of my right ankle in about '07 when I stepped on a piece of angle iron in the dark. Last fall, I tried to make my right leg bend sideways and it still bothers me at times, so I don't do squats with weights- I weigh 285 (I'm 6'2" but not built like a balloon animal- I'm sure you have seen the type) now and every squat I do is more than most people EVER do. Those injuries were bad enough but I really couldn't take the time off work for surgeries, so I basically rested everything and let them heal as much as possible on their own. The left shoulder is only occasionally sore, but it tends to click a bit when I lift anything really heavy or do things like bench press or pushups. I can't lose the time working if I injure myself again (I work for myself), so I started out slowly with the weights, although I'm usually lifting more than others I know who are similar in age whether working out or at work. I tried doing some pushups Friday night and it wasn't really a problem doing them but my left shoulder was clicking on every one and I didn't want to try my luck. I have lifted to the point of not being able to continue and usually have rubber legs after the workouts but I can't really afford to be so sore that I can't work, either. I have a pretty good idea of what will make me sore and stiff, usually. Not this time. Not sore at all and I'm working out in some way 3-6 days every week, not that I'm complaining- just wondering why I would be sore when I was younger and not now. If I concentrate on weights most days, I do more aerobic exercises at least one day and even if I'm not at the club, I work my legs every day. I was doing he steps at the lakefront one at a time, but started taking them two at a time and it's not only a more intense workout but is works ALL of my legs instead of mainly the quads, calves.

I started at 297 (I saw my profile that day and was disgusted, then appalled when I weighed myself). Two weeks later, one of the trainers did an initial consultation (comes with membership) and I had lost a few, but was already wearing jeans and shorts that I wasn't able to for about a year, so I know I had lost some. It included weighing me, measuring chest, upper arm circumference, chest, height, waist and measuring body fat with an electronic device ( I assume is uses capacitance/resistance, or something) Last week, I had another consultation- the goal was to lose 10 lb, an inch from my waist and 1% of body fat- I lost 5 lb, 2-1/2" from my waist and 2.5% body fat in 6 weeks without killing myself. I don't want to be bulkier- I already nailed that. What I really want to do is lose the weight and then see what's left & make it better.

Good luck with your goals!

I really need to do the same, it sounds like you have a similar build to me (6ft4, pushing 320lbs atm :scowl: , but just look big built, not overtly fat), dare say a perk of the rugby and weightlifting.

Put on about 50lbs in the last year, got dump tackled last season and have had problems with my lower back/hip on and off since. Twice this year I've had phases where I've been unable to get up, let alone walk anywhere. The workload hasn't helped either, I was ~240lbs when I started my PhD, and that was less than 3 years ago :scowl:

Going to try and push to get down to 250lbs over the coming months, then make the final push to get down to 225lbs (~10% bf, assuming minimal lean loss) for next summer.

It may be worth seeing a physical therapist to see about regaining some of that movement. Even some of the light stability work can really help, wouldn't want to loose squats from a regular workout!

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Read this, this morning. 17 year old lass, 58Kg category and lifts 92/116Kg!

Man, talk about emasculating! I was fairly happy with my best oly lifts a couple years back at 97.5/120, but I was 8 years older and about twice her weight, not to mention the inherent bonus of being a guy!

Olympic lifts are def. going to be part of the get fitter/dropping weight plan for over the summer/during the off season. Hopefully help strengthen up the back again too!

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Good luck with your goals!

I really need to do the same, it sounds like you have a similar build to me (6ft4, pushing 320lbs atm :scowl: , but just look big built, not overtly fat), dare say a perk of the rugby and weightlifting.

Put on about 50lbs in the last year, got dump tackled last season and have had problems with my lower back/hip on and off since. Twice this year I've had phases where I've been unable to get up, let alone walk anywhere. The workload hasn't helped either, I was ~240lbs when I started my PhD, and that was less than 3 years ago :scowl:

Going to try and push to get down to 250lbs over the coming months, then make the final push to get down to 225lbs (~10% bf, assuming minimal lean loss) for next summer.

It may be worth seeing a physical therapist to see about regaining some of that movement. Even some of the light stability work can really help, wouldn't want to loose squats from a regular workout!

You are getting older, and 225 is not realistic, IMO. Given your height and weight lifting, I think that 250-275 would be a great goal for you.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Haha, it's something that has come back to haunt me

Aye, that range is the starting point anyway. Going to try and take it in steps. I'm also kicking myself because I was holding my weight well while in the gym 3x a week, training 2x a week and having a game 1x a week, but when work and injury got in the way, I was eating the same amount as I had been while being really active.

I dare say, making this statement will have either helped me by publishing a goal I need to stick to, or damned me (thesis submission date is March next year ).

 

[Vorago]

Week 4 of the 200 squats program.

Did a total of 160 bodyweight squats in about 20 minutes yesterday.

Reasonably sore today

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Ouch, I'll bet!

Nice one though, bet you'll hit the 200 within the next fortnight!

 

[Vorago]

I plan on doing this nice and easy.

Avoid injuries at all cost