The Official MTD USA Thread

[red_rhino]

i've owned several MTD basses over the years, but only one Tobias...

Same here. A Tobias Classic 4, which I still have. No problems at all with the 30+ year-old asymmetrical neck. In fact, I think I've only had it adjusted just once in all that time. Just fabulous.

 

[Combinator]

Bartolini recently gave me the opportunity to get super bass nerdy and gear porn-y, which of course I couldn't pass up! Lots of discussion of the MTD proprietary Barts and my new custom Nightfall within, as well as discussion about my latest album and creative process, if anyone's interested.

 

[JFScheck]

I agree my Ampeg’s and MTD’s don’t get along, but plug into any of my Ashdown’s and sonic nirvana!

Two of my 535’s are swamp ash with maple cap (wenge/wenge) while my 635 is koa/koa with wenge/wenge…

 

[iplay5strings]

I agree my Ampeg’s and MTD’s don’t get along...

With the exception of their AG700 head, it's the same story with Aguilar stuff

 

[Aram]

I agree my Ampeg’s and MTD’s don’t get along, but plug into any of my Ashdown’s and sonic nirvana!

Two of my 535’s are swamp ash with maple cap (wenge/wenge) while my 635 is koa/koa with wenge/wenge…

With the exception of their AG700 head, it's the same story with Aguilar stuff

I’m pretty surprised to hear this, especially about Aguilar. I just played a friends ash/maple (no top) 534 through his TH500 and Acme cabinet and it was some of the best tone I’ve heard. We swept the entire range of EQ at each pickup and mid freq selection and there was not a bad sound in there anywhere.

I was so impressed I plunked down a deposit for a 434 which should be in the next / current batch

 

[bass12]

My MTDs have sounded fantastic through both my Ampeg SVT 3 and 4 Pros and my Aguilar TH 500. Perfect combinations for my tastes.

 

[Taustin Powers]

Could it be that "good tone" and "bad tone" are completely subjective?

 

[Aram]

Could it be that "good tone" and "bad tone" are completely subjective?

I was responding to the notion that MTDs don’t work with certain amp brands. To me something “not getting along” would imply clipping or something technical is amiss. At least with my experience mentioned above, “not getting along” didn’t strike me as that particular outcome

 

[iplay5strings]

I agree my Ampeg’s and MTD’s don’t get along, but plug into any of my Ashdown’s and sonic nirvana!

Two of my 535’s are swamp ash with maple cap (wenge/wenge) while my 635 is koa/koa with wenge/wenge…

I was responding to the notion that MTDs don’t work with certain amp brands. To me something “not getting along” would imply clipping or something technical is amiss. At least with my experience mentioned above, “not getting along” didn’t strike me as that particular outcome

Mike himself has said that his pickups don't play well with the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700) because their input sensitivities are set for hot jazz bass pickups, which Mike's pickups are not at all. My reply about Aguilar was more in reference to "if you don't like an MTD through an Ampeg, it's going to be the same story through an Aguilar" as (IMO) they're very much the same vibe.

 

[bass12]

Mike himself has said that his pickups don't play well with the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700) because their input sensitivities are set for hot jazz bass pickups, which is not what Mike normally uses. My reply about Aguilar was more in reference to "if you don't like an MTD through an Ampeg, it's going to be the same story through an Aguilar" as (IMO) they're very much the same vibe.

Maybe in theory, but in practice I’ve had zero issues with those combinations.

 

[phillipkregg]

Mike himself has said that his pickups don't play well with the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700) because their input sensitivities are set for hot jazz bass pickups, which Mike's pickups are not at all. My reply about Aguilar was more in reference to "if you don't like an MTD through an Ampeg, it's going to be the same story through an Aguilar" as (IMO) they're very much the same vibe.

Guess it depends on the particular MTD too.

My Saratoga has Bartolini B-Axis pickups, which I guess I would consider to be "hot jazz" pickups. I'm playing through an Aguilar AG700 into a Barefaced 6x10, so basically an Ampeg-like setup. I would imagine that a 535 would sound pretty different through it.

Haven't had a chance to try it through a tone hammer yet.

 

[iplay5strings]

Guess it depends on the particular MTD too.

My Saratoga has Bartolini B-Axis pickups, which I guess I would consider to be "hot jazz" pickups. I'm playing through an Aguilar AG700 into a Barefaced 6x10, so basically an Ampeg-like setup. I would imagine that a 535 would sound pretty different through it.

Haven't had a chance to try it through a tone hammer yet.

The AG700 head is it's own animal. It plays really well with the normal MTD electronics IME

 

[Aram]

Mike himself has said that his pickups don't play well with the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700) because their input sensitivities are set for hot jazz bass pickups, which Mike's pickups are not at all. My reply about Aguilar was more in reference to "if you don't like an MTD through an Ampeg, it's going to be the same story through an Aguilar" as (IMO) they're very much the same vibe.

Mike himself has said that his pickups don't play well with the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700) because their input sensitivities are set for hot jazz bass pickups, which Mike's pickups are not at all. My reply about Aguilar was more in reference to "if you don't like an MTD through an Ampeg, it's going to be the same story through an Aguilar" as (IMO) they're very much the same vibe.

But the stock MTD preamp has an internal trim pot, so the Aguilar’s input sensitivity shouldn’t matter. Maybe I’m not understanding what “play well with” means. Or, maybe I just love the tone of basses not playing well with amps

 

[iplay5strings]

But the stock MTD preamp has an internal trim pot, so the Aguilar’s input sensitivity shouldn’t matter. Maybe I’m not understanding what “play well with” means. Or, maybe I just love the tone of basses not playing well with amps

Mike doesn't like that you "have to have everything on 10" for his basses to drive the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700). By "not play well", it just means that they're not ideally suited to each other. Running the internal trim of the MTD preamp all the way up means the already boosted output of that buffer is really slamming the front end of the onboard MTD preamp. It's a very drastic gain stage change which changes the sound of the bass/circuit. Whether it's a good or bad change is subjective to the user, it's just not preferred by Mike.

 

[bass12]

Mike doesn't like that you "have to have everything on 10" for his basses to drive the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700). By "not play well", it just means that they're not ideally suited to each other. Running the internal trim of the MTD preamp all the way up means the already boosted output of that buffer is really slamming the front end of the onboard MTD preamp. It's a very drastic gain stage change which changes the sound of the bass/circuit. Whether it's a good or bad change is subjective to the user, it's just not preferred by Mike.

I'll be up front and say that since I got my TH 500 three of four years ago my main gigging bass has been a Lull, not an MTD. So I've spent a lot more time using the TH with my Lull than with my 535s. The Lull (with a Sadowsky pre) is quite low output for an active bass (much less output than my MTDs) and I have had no issues "driving" the TH 500. Moving from the Lull to the MTD (with the TH) has presented no issues that I've been aware of. My other main amp is a TecAmp Puma 900 and my 535s work just as well through the TH 500 as they do through the Puma (and I assume Mike would be in favour of the Puma, given that the amp he had at his workshop was - and maybe still is - a TecAmp). Again, this might be a case of theory vs actual field experience - or maybe it's my MTDs, or my ears. I'll have to do some direct comparisons with different basses and the TH 500 and see if anything stands out as being odd.

 

[Aram]

Mike doesn't like that you "have to have everything on 10" for his basses to drive the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700). By "not play well", it just means that they're not ideally suited to each other. Running the internal trim of the MTD preamp all the way up means the already boosted output of that buffer is really slamming the front end of the onboard MTD preamp. It's a very drastic gain stage change which changes the sound of the bass/circuit. Whether it's a good or bad change is subjective to the user, it's just not preferred by Mike.

When did Michael tell you this? I know he changed his preamp starting in Jan 2020, and this bass I was trying had the new preamp as it was a build from earlier this year. I can tell you that unless the trim comes from the shop at maximum setting that's not where this 534 was set (I presume it's halfway up or so, but I could be wrong), and as I mentioned we swept up and down each EQ knob and there was nothing I would perceive as abnormal behavior, or the amp not having appropriately matched gains.

The other reason I'm skeptical of this being an issue is that the MTD in question has the same relative output as the other two basses (passive Jazz with GZRs and Spector with BTS preamp trim set at 50%), and all drive the amp exactly as expected. The bass did not require 'everything set at 10', and FWIW the front end of the Aguilar did not sound that different from plugging straight into the effects return, which we also tried.

I guess I'm surprised because I was expecting not to like the Aguilar at all with the MTD, and was expecting something along the lines of too much color, which turned out not to be the case at all. Next time I chat with Mike about my build I'll ask him his thoughts on it -- maybe it was an issue in the past and is no longer a problem -- but I won't comment any further on this since I own neither an MTD (yet) nor an Aguilar ToneHammer (nor any other Aguilar equipment!).

 

[Aram]

(and I assume Mike would be in favour of the Puma, given that the amp he had at his workshop was - and maybe still is - a TecAmp).

It was for years -- I was in the shop probably 9 years ago and it was a full TecAmp rig -- but I was just there 3 weeks ago and it's a Bergantino B|Amp now and one of the newer 212's (with an HF driver, but something after the HT series and before the current NXT series...I've lost track of all the variants )

 

[iplay5strings]

When did Michael tell you this? I know he changed his preamp starting in Jan 2020, and this bass I was trying had the new preamp as it was a build from earlier this year. I can tell you that unless the trim comes from the shop at maximum setting that's not where this 534 was set (I presume it's halfway up or so, but I could be wrong), and as I mentioned we swept up and down each EQ knob and there was nothing I would perceive as abnormal behavior, or the amp not having appropriately matched gains.

The other reason I'm skeptical of this being an issue is that the MTD in question has the same relative output as the other two basses (passive Jazz with GZRs and Spector with BTS preamp trim set at 50%), and all drive the amp exactly as expected. The bass did not require 'everything set at 10', and FWIW the front end of the Aguilar did not sound that different from plugging straight into the effects return, which we also tried.

I guess I'm surprised because I was expecting not to like the Aguilar at all with the MTD, and was expecting something along the lines of too much color, which turned out not to be the case at all. Next time I chat with Mike about my build I'll ask him his thoughts on it -- maybe it was an issue in the past and is no longer a problem -- but I won't comment any further on this since I own neither an MTD (yet) nor an Aguilar ToneHammer (nor any other Aguilar equipment!).

It was either at an earlier NAMM show or when I last visited his shop. It could've even been based off of comments from guys like Gouche (who is not a fan of his MTD's through anything Aguilar except the AG700). I've had to use TH heads as backline and wasn't super impressed with them, something with how they shape the mids just made everything too wooly for me...but that's personal preference not tech specs based YMMV

 

[Vic]

Mike doesn't like that you "have to have everything on 10" for his basses to drive the Aguilar stuff (except the AG700). By "not play well", it just means that they're not ideally suited to each other. Running the internal trim of the MTD preamp all the way up means the already boosted output of that buffer is really slamming the front end of the onboard MTD preamp. It's a very drastic gain stage change which changes the sound of the bass/circuit. Whether it's a good or bad change is subjective to the user, it's just not preferred by Mike.

I don't think that should be necessary, and I think this whole thread is maybe off track...

First, I believe the input stage of his preamp is the same gain sensitivity as the standard Bart NTMB.

Given that, as I understand it, the extra module in MTDs is to buffer (or maybe put another way, "pre-boost") his low impedance/output pickups to match it all up, so that "just works".

So I believe as long as you keep that extra module involved, all should work fine without having to max out any trim pots.

I wonder if Mike was worried someone would try to hook his pickups directly to another pre withOUT the buffer?

 

[iplay5strings]

First, I believe the input stage of his preamp is the same gain sensitivity as the standard Bart NTMB.

Given that, as I understand it, the extra module in MTDs is to buffer (or maybe put another way, "pre-boost") his low impedance/output pickups to match it all up, so that "just works".

This is correct, the module both buffers the pickups and adds a gain boost to help his low z pickups drive the preamp.