The Rickenbacker Club Part Eight

[GG7]

You do realize Ric5 was banned from the RRF for discussing his views on Rickebacker the company right?

You do realize that Ric5 is the last person you should consider saying that to, right?

Are you even paying attention?

I was just responding to his previous post. I haven't seen any posts that I would consider trolling since I started posting photos of my recent issues, so I must assume he was directing his comments at me.

Listen... As I said, if this is a group of guitar owners that by and large can't deal, or prefer not to deal with a user who has a legitimate issue with the brand and the company, then I obviously over estimated the worth of this community. I really don't appreciate being lectured to by some of the people on here about my reaction to the problems or my responses to some who posted thinly veiled insults directed at me.

There are some good guys on here, but they seem to be in the minority which is sad. I've got plenty of other guitars in my collection besides basses and plenty of forums where I can spend some of my free time discussing them.

It was not until I attempted to re-enter the Rickenbacker owner community that I was forced to endure weeks of hassle trying to get a guitar that wasn't screwed up. I've bought 3 new Fenders and 2 Gibson guitars over the same period and all of them were prefect out of the box. Aside from the usual setup requirements, no issues with the finishes, tuners, pups etc. and I couldn't be happier with them. My American Deluxe Jazz Bass is one of the three Fenders and that bass is absolutely gorgeous and plays like a dream. I bought that from MF too.

My new 2012 vintage RIC 360/12 ended up having some QC issues with it too, which in this case were primarily electronic issues. I am left with the opinion that Rickenbacker is not the company it once was. These things are not cheap! They are proportionally more expensive than Fender and Gibson's similar offerings and so I would expect them to be better quality than those brands, not worse!

Sorry if some of you can't handle that opinion, but it is based on my personal experience and a direct comparison to recent purchases of guitars from two other major makers.

Fender's out of the box quality has improved dramatically since the late 70s when I last bought a new guitar from them. Gibson seems about the same as the last time I bought something from them. Of the 7 new guitars I have purchased since February, the only two that have had problems have been Rickenbackers. Take that as you like. Simply the facts of my personal experience with them.

 

[FaithNoMan]

For everyone's information, I only noticed Ric having these problems post-2010. The years before that seemed to have very few problems with the exception of Midnight Blue bleeding a while back.
I can say for sure that all the 1990-2009 ones I played never had any issues, nor have I heard of many in those years. Gibson has definitely had its' own issues but seems to be working through them.

Price-wise and category-wise they are all similar prices, even Fender. MIA Fender.

 

[Tarrbot]

I was just responding to his previous post. I haven't seen any posts that I would consider trolling since I started posting photos of my recent issues, so I must assume he was directing his comments at me.

Listen...As I said, if this is a group of guitar owners that can't deal with a user with a legitimate issue with the brand and the company, then I obviously over estimated the worth of this community.

Like I said... I've got plenty of other guitars in my collection besides basses and plenty of forums where I can spend some of my free time discussing them.

It was not until I attempted to re-enter the Rickenbacker owner community that I was forced to endure weeks of hassle trying to get a guitar that wasn't screwed up.

I've bought 3 Fenders and 2 Gibsons over the same period and all of them were prefect out of the box. Aside from the usual setup requirements, no issues with the finishes, tuners, pups etc. and I couldn't be happier with them.

My new 2012 vintage RIC 360/12 ended up having some QC issues with it too, which in this case were electronic. I am left with the opinion that Rickenbacker is not the company it once was. These things are not cheap! They are proportionally more expensive than Fender and Gibson's similar offerings and so I would expect them to be better quality than those brands, not worse!

Sorry if some of you can't handle that opinion, but it is based on my personal experience and a direct comparison to recent purchases of guitars from two other major makers that were just the opposite in terms of their QC.

Fender's out of the box quality has improved dramatically since the late 70s when I last bought a new guitar from them. Gibson seems about the same as the last time I bought something from them.

No one is suggesting that you didn't have a problem. Not one person here has denied you, especially given your picture evidence.

However, I think it's been mentioned by you that you are getting this fixed... and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it seems like Rickenbacker INC did something outside of the warranty here and you still seem to be dragging them through the mud.

Dude, we get that the problem existed. But you seriously want respect from me for your essentially blaming a member here for "misleading" you on a nutdriver? That's pretty low. You can't blame someone here for your lack of tools especially given that you live 30 miles on the other side of nowhere. One would expect someone in the far reaches of BFE to have some basic tools.

I want you to love that bass, especially like I love mine. I really do. I just have a hard time getting past the posts here, that's all.

So, I guess it's safe to say that "No" you weren't paying attention to who you said that to.

Now, after all my whining about your whining () can we move on?

I don't want to have a flamfest. I think we as adults can come together and move forward. (And yes, I will be ignoring anyone commenting on my comments because I know that people post differently than I do.... some read, hit reply, read more, hit reply, read more, hit reply and by the time they get to this post go, "oh... i shoulda read until the end")

So in that "adult" manner I'm going to start a different discussion within this. GG7, what type of music are you using these Rickenbackers for? What made you want to come back to this maker? Feel? Tone? Just some unnamed mojo? (I'm being serious here, I'd like to know).

 

[254 stringer]

Nice day out so i snapped a pick with some blue bonnets.

 

[GG7]

I think Ric5 has a very good point--this is not a place for trolling. But is GG7 trolling? I don't think it's our place to say at this point. (S)he seems to have brought legitimate concerns. The aluminum foil stuff sounded totally fake to me until I looked at the pic again... indeed foil thin seems about right. Which is totally counter to my experience of a Ric finish, but the pic isn't lying. I also think the idea that TB posters have definitively isolated a bad run of Jetglo 4003s is not out of the question but also far, far away from being proven.

Thanks Thio!

I try to be as accurate as possible when describing something like this, and aluminum foil was the closest well known product I could think of that was similar in thickness.

Not sure if a thicker coating of this particular material would have made a difference or not in this case, since the stuff is also incredibly brittle. Sounds like breaking hard candy when you take a flake of this stuff and try to bend it. It doesn't bend much at all before it cracks into two pieces with very little pressure.

That third bass was made in early April and the one I kept and the first one were made in the middle of May, so this problem was going on for at least a month of JetGlo production.

 

[Tarrbot]

Nice day out so i snapped a pick with some blue bonnets.

View attachment 331869

Got any more with the bluebonnets? It's been a while since I've seen a lot of those state flowers.

 

[thiocyclist]

I think the saddest part is the denial on the part of some members in here that the problem even exists. Trust me! It does and that is a big problem if you ask me.

I think this is a little judgmental on your part (to assume people are in denial). Some of the problems you describe would sound entirely made up if it were for the photos to prove it. I've seen plenty of Rics first hand, even plenty of abused ones, and yet never anything remotely like the finish issues you are having and so well documented in that tailpiece photo. Obviously I believe you but it's very strange that it's such a striking contrast from my own experience even with instruments that were made that same year or later. I really can't wrap my head around a Ric with a finish that thin-skinned.

EDIT: To be clear it does seem people have found your story an inconvenience and that is not fair to you... just saying that fairness really has to be extended both ways for this community to work. Or else it turns into us against them.

 

[254 stringer]

Got any more with the bluebonnets? It's been a while since I've seen a lot of those state flowers.

Just this one its not a very big patch and I didn't like the way the sun washed out the bass or i would have posted it.here is a shot of just the flowers

 

[Tarrbot]

Just this one its not a very big patch and I didn't like the way the sun washed out the bass or i would have posted it.View attachment 331873here is a shot of just the flowers

Maybe I can photoshop mine in there and pretend I'm back in Texas...

 

[GG7]

No one is suggesting that you didn't have a problem. Not one person here has denied you, especially given your picture evidence.

However, I think it's been mentioned by you that you are getting this fixed... and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it seems like Rickenbacker INC did something outside of the warranty here and you still seem to be dragging them through the mud.

Dude, we get that the problem existed. But you seriously want respect from me for your essentially blaming a member here for "misleading" you on a nutdriver? That's pretty low. You can't blame someone here for your lack of tools especially given that you live 30 miles on the other side of nowhere. One would expect someone in the far reaches of BFE to have some basic tools.

I want you to love that bass, especially like I love mine. I really do. I just have a hard time getting past the posts here, that's all.

So, I guess it's safe to say that "No" you weren't paying attention to who you said that to.

Now, after all my whining about your whining () can we move on?

I don't want to have a flamfest. I think we as adults can come together and move forward. (And yes, I will be ignoring anyone commenting on my comments because I know that people post differently than I do.... some read, hit reply, read more, hit reply, read more, hit reply and by the time they get to this post go, "oh... i shoulda read until the end")

So in that "adult" manner I'm going to start a different discussion within this. GG7, what type of music are you using these Rickenbackers for? What made you want to come back to this maker? Feel? Tone? Just some unnamed mojo? (I'm being serious here, I'd like to know).

First of all... Regarding the nutdriver link.

I asked if there was a wrench that I could buy that would fit this bass and that link was posted. No mention of the need to grind it down first. I already had several drivers that would work if I ground them down, I didn't need another one.

How is pointing that out low? I would never provide a link to someone to something that I wasn't 100% sure would work for them. Or I would have at least mention... "Oh! By the way...You need a bench grinder or belt sander if you want that wrench I just linked you to to work for your bass." Fortunately it was only a complete waste of 17 bucks and not more.

And I was posting a link to a nut driver that WILL actually work on these basses without having to grind it down first! Shame on me for not doing my research first before accepting the advice of another member without questioning its accuracy.

As for the music I do... Its a variety of styles. I play a lot of instruments, so it all depends on what I am writing on at the moment. Anything from Bluegrass to Prog Rock and everything in between.

Why did I come back to Rickenbacker?

I just like the feel of a GOOD 4001/4003 bass. Fits my hand well and I find them very easy to play. I LOVE the amount of sounds you can get out of one. I LOVE the stereo output and being able to feed the top end out to my VOX AC15 Twin guitar amp.

I also really like the "odd" shape of a 4001/4003. Kind of an Art Deco style which looks unlike any other bass ever made.

Oh! And lastly, and why I have put myself through all this hassle is that I LOVE the now discontinued African Rosewood fingerboards of the now classic/vintage Rickenbacker guitars and basses. That beautiful RED wood against the JetGlo finish of a 4001/4003. Coolest combo esthetically ever!

 

[Bongolation]

THOSE are not useful discussions, bongolation. No matter how you paint them. This has been pretty much the tone for the last 20 pages.

No, you misunderstand.

I'm not that concerned with the 2011 JetGlo finish problem, specifically, and if people get personal with arguing about an issue like that I basically don't even really notice as I've already scrolled on, sniffing for more data.

My point is that such bloodhound work has informed me that there are a lot of buyer gripes about relatively recent Rickenbacker finish fails, and line guys with Monday hangovers and power drivers wrecking those odd and vulnerable bridges, and RIC shipping this stuff anyway. AND buyer complaints about being jacked around by RIC customer service when trying to get QC problems rectified.

Now I know what to be on the lookout for when (and at this point, if) I go shopping for a 4003.

If it's all good, then I'm jake with it. But I'm not paying this kind of money to buy into some headache, any more than I would with some crappy overpriced Gibson that looks like it was built by disgruntled apes, heaven knows.

I'm just getting tired of this, "the more you spend, the more defects you buy" stuff with MIA instruments, and I think others should be, too. If some cheap import is a junker, nobody cares about it getting ragged on -- but gripe about an expensive MIA being even more incompetently done and people freak out. To me, that's contemptible, but it's absolutely predictable on TB. I've been watching this for over a decade.

Pointing any of this out is not trolling and it's not out of line.

 

[GG7]

I think this is a little judgmental on your part (to assume people are in denial). Some of the problems you describe would sound entirely made up if it were for the photos to prove it. I've seen plenty of Rics first hand, even plenty of abused ones, and yet never anything remotely like the finish issues you are having and so well documented in that tailpiece photo. Obviously I believe you but it's very strange that it's such a striking contrast from my own experience even with instruments that were made that same year or later. I really can't wrap my head around a Ric with a finish that thin-skinned.

EDIT: To be clear it does seem people have found your story an inconvenience and that is not fair to you... just saying that fairness really has to be extended both ways for this community to work. Or else it turns into us against them.

No problem.

I just can't hang with those who insist on shooting the messenger and calling my credibility into question simply because their singular buying experience was problem free. As if their minuscule sampling of the factory's total output has any bearing on anything to begin with.

But you're right! If I had not seen this problem with my own eyes, I would have had a hard time believing such a thing was even possible. Leave alone seeing it over and over on multiple instruments. It was obvious to me after the second 4003 that this was a manufacturing defect.

Hopefully when I eventually send this bass down to the factory, it comes back looking like a factory finished bass should and not with more problems than it started out with.

That proper wrench should be here any day now, so hopefully this thing sets up normally and plays right. The last thing I need is a problem with the neck or something. That would be the last straw for me. Especially after seeing the new Fender 64 Jazz Bass reissue in Lake Placid blue!

Cheers.

 

[2nd Wind]

My friend always seemed to have trouble with his '74. Then again, Michi-iana has some of the most bipolar weather out there. It's typical to go from 80 and humid to a dry 38.

I'm just north of that line and my '75 4001 was set the day I received it about 4 years ago and I've never had to touch it again. As long as you adjust it correctly (loosen the truss nuts, move and hold the neck where you want it then tighten the truss nuts) they hold the neck where you put it.

 

[2nd Wind]

Alright. I tend to do most setup work myself, but if I do go the 4001 route, I'll probably have my tech set it up, and show me the ropes on these.

How do the late 70's 4001 necks compare to the earlier models? As I've said, the 74 I've played had a great slim feeling.

'78 and '79 had great necks that will be as slim or slimmer.

 

[2nd Wind]

For everyone's information, I only noticed Ric having these problems post-2010. The years before that seemed to have very few problems with the exception of Midnight Blue bleeding a while back.
I can say for sure that all the 1990-2009 ones I played never had any issues, nor have I heard of many in those years. Gibson has definitely had its' own issues but seems to be working through them.

Price-wise and category-wise they are all similar prices, even Fender. MIA Fender.

Which coincides with the change-over to UV curing of the CV clear finish.

 

[Tarrbot]

No problem.

I just can't hang with those who insist on shooting the messenger and calling my credibility into question simply because their singular buying experience was problem free. As if their minuscule sampling of the factory's total output has any bearing on anything to begin with.

I'm glad you like the basses and seriously wished you didn't have these issues. But can you see the hypocrisy in the above statement?

Here, let me help. You are taking the tact that someone here had a single experience with a single manufacturer while you've had three experiences in comparison. "As if their minuscule sampling of the total factory's total outputs has any bearing on anything to begin with"...

There are many people here who see these basses on a daily basis, some have owned several dozen or more. You may not intend it, but it comes across as pompous. Surely the irony in that sentence isn't lost on you. And while you may not know it, the Rickenbacker fans here have had a large number of trolls that say this same thing. I think someone suggested at one point that you were Gibenbackerbass--a longtime troll who was eventually banned here. In many ways, your posts are eerily similar to his.

Please forgive me if I was offensive earlier. That wasn't my intent. I have a low tolerance for trolls and want to get Don Quixote on them.

I don't think your credibility is in question here. It definitely deserves discussion. It definitely was a problem. I seriously want to see the new finish that's put on the bass.

Hopefully you can show pics when it's done.

 

[Tarrbot]

Oh, I meant to address the nut driver thing. I never had issues with my nut driver fitting my truss rods. I can see it being offered as a tool to use. Maybe this was the intent.

I had heard of others having your problem, though. I don't think that's normal but it does happen, I understand.

 

[2nd Wind]

Any suggestions on a nut driver brand that will fit on these? Would need to be a super thin walled nut driver tool, and not the kind I use around here. Can't say I have ever seen a nut driver that would be that thin to fit over the nut and not be too thick. They don't use an open wrench for these do they?

Have they planned it this way to force you to buy that $30.00 wrench they sell?

Yes, neck can be made flat or slight bow. Lowest action is with the neck flat and the bridge low. You might also need the nut slots cut a tad deeper to get low action - the factory leaves them higher than many like.

Nut driver - same one RIC sells:
http://www.amazon.com/Xcelite-Hollo...TF8&qid=1364526925&sr=8-1&keywords=xcelite+L8

Hmmm, all I posted is that it is the same one RIC sells. My link shows it for less than the $30 you complained about. You did not mention the grinding down limitation. My experience with the wrench was it fits fine. You decided to buy it.

First of all... Regarding the nutdriver link.

I asked if there was a wrench that I could buy that would fit this bass and that link was posted. No mention of the need to grind it down first. I already had several drivers that would work if I ground them down, I didn't need another one.

How is pointing that out low? I would never provide a link to someone to something that I wasn't 100% sure would work for them. Or I would have at least mention... "Oh! By the way...You need a bench grinder or belt sander if you want that wrench I just linked you to to work for your bass." Fortunately it was only a complete waste of 17 bucks and not more.

 

[GG7]

I'm glad you like the basses and seriously wished you didn't have these issues. But can you see the hypocrisy in the above statement?

Here, let me help. You are taking the tact that someone here had a single experience with a single manufacturer while you've had three experiences in comparison. "As if their minuscule sampling of the total factory's total outputs has any bearing on anything to begin with"...

There are many people here who see these basses on a daily basis, some have owned several dozen or more. You may not intend it, but it comes across as pompous. Surely the irony in that sentence isn't lost on you. And while you may not know it, the Rickenbacker fans here have had a large number of trolls that say this same thing. I think someone suggested at one point that you were Gibenbackerbass--a longtime troll who was eventually banned here. In many ways, your posts are eerily similar to his.

Please forgive me if I was offensive earlier. That wasn't my intent. I have a low tolerance for trolls and want to get Don Quixote on them.

I don't think your credibility is in question here. It definitely deserves discussion. It definitely was a problem. I seriously want to see the new finish that's put on the bass.

Hopefully you can show pics when it's done.

Actually, I can't because my three examples were just one example of many, many reports from owners of 2011 JetGlo finished basses that have all been starting to develop these cracks. The problem here is that many of the people commenting on this subject are woefully uninformed on the entire story because they didn't bother to take the time to go back and read the entire discussion which mentioned multiple reports from other 2011 owners with the same issue on basses that previously had zero finish related issues.

But at this point, I am pretty much done talking about it. Dealing with this has been a big enough pain in the butt. I don't need the additional tedium of debating the issue on here.

I only revisted the topic when the user hsech posted what I took as a very condescending commentary on my previous reports of this finish problem.

In the end, if this helps any of those 2011 JetGlo owners getting Rickenbacker to step up and fix their cracking basses, then this was all worth the effort I took to provide all the photos and accompanying text. Prior to my reports, these users were all told by the Rickenbacker service department that the finish cracking was THEIR FAULT and related to something they did wrong. Thus not covered under warranty.

We all know now that this is a load of BS, and the thing that I find the most concerning is that there is NO WAY that Rickenbacker was unaware of this problem.

It does coincide with their switchover to that new UV cured finish material. Obviously this new stuff has a much higher potential for breakdown over time. For all we know, every new Rickenbacker is going to eventually start cracking like this when it reaches a certain age.

We will have to wait another year or two to know if all of you with basses made after 2011 are sitting on ticking time bombs when it comes to the finish on your bass. Eventually breaking down and beginning to separate from the wood of the body.

At least now, you have some photos to refer to should you start seeing this happening to your currently pristine finish.

I'm out!

 

[subbasshz]

OK so no0b question.

how come you almost never see modded rics? like P/J pick ups slammed in there? or a Gibson mudbucker?