Double Bass The "Sampler Comments" forum. Thoughts and ideas...

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I just emailed Damon to let him know that I'm sending a couple of new submissions (rough mixes from the Harry Pickens trio) to the Sampler page, and will be happy to snail-mail out some hard copies as well (if anybody wants a hard copy, please let me know here or PM me with current snail-mail address). I'm looking to get some good clean unabashed constructive criticism on these pages, and I look forward to those types of revelations that seemingly only a fresh set of more objective ears can bring to light. In the meantime, I've noticed that the traffic - or at least the critical commentary - in the forum has been light as yet, and am wondering if people are hesitant to post their thoughts online, or are afraid of putting critical foot in mouth, or...?

In short, do we need to collectively establish a set of ground rules for the critiques in this forum, or is the relative lack of feedback just folks feeling busy or bashful? Thoughts? Insights? Comments? I'd love to see this thing take off and be an integral (and possibly central) part of the TB/DB experience. Is there something lacking, or am I just impatient?

 

[Steve Killingsworth]

I know I speak for myself and think I speak for many others when I say it is not bashfulness but ignorance. You guys' "bad days" are what I hope to sound like on my future good days. I have a lot more in the way of questions than critique and have sent numerous PMs asking about sounds and techniques I hear and have received some really good advice as a result. From that perspective the sampler has been very beneficial to me.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

As y'all can see, I haven't come up with any programming time yet for putting any kind of feedback mechanism directly into the page. For the time being we have to use existing resources and that means TalkBass!!

I'd just like to point out that contributors can get things going a bit. What's wrong with contributors saying a few things about the tune aside from personnel, gear, recording conditions. Why not say a few things about musical aspects of the track? In other words, what is it about your playing on the track that makes you proud enough to post, or what is it that you're worried about? Being a little bit proactive -- i.e., ASKING for specific feedback -- makes it easier for feedback-givers to step up to the plate.

As for the level of playing: for the last couple of weeks I've been working the kinks out of some new live recording gear and I'm recording everything. Soon as I get something that makes me proud enough to post, don't worry: I'll single-handedly bring down the page's level of playing.

Unless some other mere mortal beats me to it!

 

[godoze]

i'd just like to know how to get one...

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

i'd just like to know how to get one...

One of which? There was an original Sampler disc (two actually), which Sam mailed out to interested supporting members. After that, folks just started sending fresh stuff to Damon, who is hosting the stuff on the webpage he created for the project. We haven't really discussed whether to make a second hardcopy edition, or whether having the stuff up on Damon's site is "Sampler" enough. We should probably discuss this last point soon.

Specifically, what material are you interested in? If I have a copy I'll be happy to burn a copy and send (without Sam's fancy labels, of course ).

 

[larry]

I'd love to see this thing take off and be an integral (and possibly central) part of the TB/DB experience. Is there something lacking, or am I just impatient? [/QUOTE]



I am kind of new to this site, but I see tremendous value in this project. I have enjoyed checking other players out, especially as the music scene continues to evolve away from having the amount of live Jazz venues and playing opportunities (at least for good $$) that it used to. It's hard to get out and hear other players, so thank you for this effort. I can see, though, where it would be difficult for someone to just lay out feedback on someone else's playing. Perhaps the brave folks who offer their recordings for public critique have some specific questions they can start us off with (how's my time, intonation etc.). Whether or not there is a lot of feedback given, I believe this is a very good thing. Please keep it going.

 

[godoze]

One of which? There was an original Sampler disc (two actually), which Sam mailed out to interested supporting members. After that, folks just started sending fresh stuff to Damon, who is hosting the stuff on the webpage he created for the project. We haven't really discussed whether to make a second hardcopy edition, or whether having the stuff up on Damon's site is "Sampler" enough. We should probably discuss this last point soon.

Specifically, what material are you interested in? If I have a copy I'll be happy to burn a copy and send (without Sam's fancy labels, of course ).

Yes, i would like the original.But i'm embarrased to say that I didn't realize the "new" one is online...yikes...Can i contribute something or are we all done with that ?

 

[Sam Sherry]

Can i contribute something or are we all done with that ?

PLEASE CONTRIBUTE. As long as Damon's patience holds out we we are "never done." Post, please, professor!

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Hey when is Ray Parker gonna ante up?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

HEY DURRL - I got the Cd just as I was leaving for a session, so I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Is it going up on the site yet?

You need to start yer own CHRIS FITZGERALD thread so's we can have at ya.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Will do. I'll be out until about 3, and will fire up a thread then.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Sam and I have been talking, and have noticed that many folks seem shy about posting comments on the recordings posted on the Sampler page. Sam has several good theories as to why:

1) Listening to this stuff with enough concentration to be able to offer criticism is hard and time-consuming work.

2) The level of some of the participants (i.e. - WARMBATON, MAYOR McBASS, BAL-T GUNNER in particular) is largely above criticism from the rest of us mere mortals.

3) Fear of offending someone you barely know by offering criticism of their playing.


I think he may be right on all counts, but as I'm dealing with a similar situation at the University next year (a playing class in which critical suggestions are encouraged), I'm curious about ways to make the idea of constructive critique more appealing and user-friendly for all. Also, I'd like to continue to encourage players of ALL LEVELS in ALL STYLES/GENRES to feel free to submit. Is there a way to make this scene better? All thoughts welcome.


P.S. - DON Z, do you still need a hard copy? Send a PM if so.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

If I may offer my humble opinion...

You guys just need to get a fearless intermediate/advanced beginner to dare to walk amongst the giants. We're all insecure about our skills, but once you get one single person to try and hopefully get feedback that leads to positive results, the rest will come. The first step is always the hardest. Heck, you might find it hard to find storage for all the sound samples if it really happens. If only I played DB longer I would submit myself to the slings and arrows but alas I'm still inept and would be wasting your collective time.

If you guys could get the ball rolling on this, TB could be the ultimate in internet communities. It would be going from a great site to the OH-MY-GOD-THIS-IS-INSANE site.

Just my two coppers.

 

[arto alho]

Well, I did it. First sent my stuff to Ed for some Fuquisms, and he sent my stuff to Damon. Hope it will be up in the near future.

I´m absolutely nothing compared to guys like WARTBUTTOCKS, FRITZ WIENERWALD, T-REX,
McMIGHTY-MIKE, FOGHORN, Marcus, Pacman and others who have sent their great tracks in the sampler. But I do like this band, and I´m happy to play with them.

I have such a long way to go...but have your fun, guys.

R2

 

[mchildree]

Can't speak for everybody, but I suspect there are lots of us here who feel like Steve....me included. Easy enough to listen and love or dislike what you hear, but maybe not so simple to intelligently express the "whys". And certainly, it is difficult at best, to critque something that you couldn't improve upon yourself.

 

[olivier]

If I may offer my humble opinion...

You guys just need to get a fearless intermediate/advanced beginner to dare to walk amongst the giants. We're all insecure about our skills, but once you get one single person to try and hopefully get feedback that leads to positive results, the rest will come. The first step is always the hardest. Heck, you might find it hard to find storage for all the sound samples if it really happens. If only I played DB longer I would submit myself to the slings and arrows but alas I'm still inept and would be wasting your collective time.

If you guys could get the ball rolling on this, TB could be the ultimate in internet communities. It would be going from a great site to the OH-MY-GOD-THIS-IS-INSANE site.

Just my two coppers.

You guys set the standards pretty high and I see two types of hurdle :

recording: as you know decent amplifying or recording our cherished instrument is not that easy. I do have one year old wav tracks of my trio + vocalist, but it is very Lo-Fi compared to what's on the sampler now.

camera shyness: as howdy puts it we're insecure about our skills or in other words yet: our chops aren't that great. It's one thing to brag about our gear and give advice to nubes on how to get theirs, it's whole different thing to let everybody on the net hear what music we pull out of it and wait for (respectful and constructive) criticism. Also beside the doublebassist other camera shy people may be on the tracks.

So we've got lots of good excuses for not going naked in public... But I concur with youz that it could be very useful to get respectful and constructive advice. Maybe as R2 did we could submit our stuff to a couple of reviewers who'd PM their reviews and negotiate the eventual divulgation for the benefit of all. Maybe also the submitter could remain anonymous... sounds coward, but why not. Maybe what matters is just the pedagogical aspect of it after all.

darn, am I gonna rummage thru my stuff to dig out that homebrewed CD that I listened only once ?

 

[olivier]

Can't speak for everybody, but I suspect there are lots of us here who feel like Steve....me included. Easy enough to listen and love or dislike what you hear, but maybe not so simple to intelligently express the "whys". And certainly, it is difficult at best, to critque something that you couldn't improve upon yourself.

ah I realize that I overead the thread and though it was about sending your recording materials instead of just your review. Man I love what I hear on these tracks. I like the fact they are not overproduced or too formatted. I'm not sure I'd be able to produce an argumented opinion. I'm gonna try. It requires time...

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

ah I realize that I overead the thread and though it was about sending your recording materials instead of just your review. Man I love what I hear on these tracks. I like the fact they are not overproduced or too formatted. I'm not sure I'd be able to produce an argumented opinion. I'm gonna try. It requires time...

It's actually about both. PLEASE SUBMIT! I agree with HAYDIDDLEDIDDLE that if folks get used to the idea of constructive feedback to and from all levels, this could take TBDB to an entirely different level.

 

[Sam Sherry]

Easy enough to listen and love or dislike what you hear, but maybe not so simple to intelligently express the "whys".

The three-part process of listening, analyzing and detailing the analysis has the most powerful learning experience I've had in the past few years. Doing that for myself and for other people has made me be a lot clearer about what I am aiming for technically AND musically.

And certainly, it is difficult at best, to critque something that you couldn't improve upon yourself.

With respect, I disagree. Even though I don't play as well as Chris, Ed, McB, Paul, Tom, Monte, Bob, you, and Marcus, I can still hear something which might cause them to think about their playing in a different light. It's all about "cleaning the mirror."

More importantly, just telling somebody in detail what you like about their playing may be helpful to them, and to you.

So please, man, I hope you speak your piece.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Whoah, I didn't think about submitting my own critique until you guys mentioned that. Yes I think everyone (even the untrained listener) has something to contribute. Besides, it's a take-it-or-leave-it sort of advice anyway. However, I think even our friendly-pros would even like to hear if their music simply moved you or not, yes? That shouldn't take much technical/musical knowledge to be able to say so.

And hats to you all for welcoming such criticisms even from beginners like myself, that shows you guys have much humility and are willing to listen. WOuld you please stop being such good people?!?!