Double Bass The search begins...

[turf3]

A number of people who are undoubtedly far more expert than I have discussed strings above; but my experience is kind of counter to the "Spiros for pizz" idea. My fully carved Romanian flatback came with Bel Canto strings - which are supposedly great for arco and underwhelming for pizz. I play (as opposed to practicing) about 99% pizz, in jazz, bluegrass, country, old time, and the like. And I'm still playing the Bel Cantos, with comments like "boy, that bass has a great presence" or "great resonant sound". My concept for upright bass tone is much along the Ray Brown/Walter Page/Charles Mingus line: a big heavy blunt sound, not ringy or twangy at all. For that particular sound, this bass and those (supposedly only good for orchestra) strings work great.

So if you're a pizz player, depending on how you like your bass to sound, it may NOT be that "the one with Spiros will sound better just because of the strings".

 

[Ed S]

...I play (as opposed to practicing) about 99% pizz, in jazz, bluegrass, country, old time, and the like. And I'm still playing the Bel Cantos, with comments like "boy, that bass has a great presence" or "great resonant sound". ...

How does it sound to YOU playing it? And what are you comparing it to?

I took advantage of hearing someone else play my ply last week - something that doesn't happen enough.

And then there's the whole issue of - how much effort and expense are you willing to put into comparing different strings.

Happy you have a setup you are happy with! That's all that matters!

 

[turf3]

How does it sound to YOU playing it? And what are you comparing it to?

I took advantage of hearing someone else play my ply last week - something that doesn't happen enough.

And then there's the whole issue of - how much effort and expense are you willing to put into comparing different strings.

Happy you have a setup you are happy with! That's all that matters!

On a good day, it sounds like I described above, heavy solid sound, not twangy or ringy. When I hear better players play the bass, it sounds like that. I'd say I'm comparing it to all the other basses played by all the other bass players I've heard over the last 50+ years of listening to music.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Was that the VB200?
I recently sprang for a VB305 (fully carved) for my daughter. Compared to the VB200, the difference in tone and projection of the VB305 under the bow was night and day, but the difference in price was not (£4300 ($6200) vs £2900 ($4400)). If you can track one down I would say give it a go - you get a lot of bass.

It was an Eastman VB105 7/8ths 2017 model. It had heliocores on it and they were kind of meh. I love the Eastman 305 with the Busetto corners and they start at $6100. I’m a bit wary to pay that much for a Chinese bass though. I know they have decent build quality but I think I can get something much more special for that price.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Yeah, you're reminding me that a great instrument will reveal things about your technique and help you play better.

As a sort of business & personal coach for the last several years, it's better to seek "good enough" and concentrate on the things that enliven the activity of playing for you than to just have a "good instrument". A great bass should encourage you to practice and make you fall in with playing all over again - otherwise I don't think you got your money's worth.

100% this is what I’m searching for.

 

[Ed S]

...I love the Eastman 305 with the Busetto corners and they start at $6100. I’m a bit wary to pay that much for a Chinese bass though. I know they have decent build quality but I think I can get something much more special for that price. ...

I share your (irrational) concerns about Chinese basses. If it bothers you, well, then that is important, whether or not anyone else agrees.

I can think of 2 occasions when I played someone else's bass and was really impressed - with look, feel, AND sound, and when I asked what it was, they said, "It is just a Shen."

And there is no question that the build quality of a newer Shen would be more reliable than your average old shop bass.

I would bet that if you bought a higher level Shen set up by a decent shop, you would be hard pressed to outgrow it.

I've said this before, but my wife is a violinmaker and I spend A LOT of time w/ makers/sellers. The mere fact that an instrument is Chinese made IN NO WAY means an instrument is not "special."

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I share your (irrational) concerns about Chinese basses. If it bothers you, well, then that is important, whether or not anyone else agrees.

I can think of 2 occasions when I played someone else's bass and was really impressed - with look, feel, AND sound, and when I asked what it was, they said, "It is just a Shen."

And there is no question that the build quality of a newer Shen would be more reliable than your average old shop bass.

I would bet that if you bought a higher level Shen set up by a decent shop, you would be hard pressed to outgrow it.

I've said this before, but my wife is a violinmaker and I spend A LOT of time w/ makers/sellers. The mere fact that an instrument is Chinese made IN NO WAY means an instrument is not "special."

I know they make decent stuff but I don’t agree with China’s human rights record and their overall treatment of the Chinese populace, as well as their quest for world dominance. Because of that I try as much as possible to buy anything other than something made in China. It’s just a philosophy I try and stick with; but I digress as I really don’t want this thread to go into a political direction and darken my search for my next double bass. It’s supposed to be a happy time.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Playing/hearing is believing. I've played a few Shens at Steve Swan's shop. There's chinese basses and then there's Shen basses. Not always the same. The higher end stuff is impressive and I would say comparable to NS/Upton.

Again, the only way to know is to actually play and have a sense for how the bass will mature. Some might open up over time but if you play them enough you can tell which ones are choked up (for whatever reason) and what not. Sometimes bowing them will help them open up and you can get a sense for what it might sound like in the long run.

Whatever you do, I would avoid thinking any thoughts that "I can fix this bass". You can but it will always cost more than you think it will. I wouldn't waste your time trying to fix something sub-optimal and go after what you really want unless you are sure you can make your fixes happen or with little effort.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I spoke of seeking out a German shop bass as that’s the sound I have in my head from listening to so many greats play on Juzeks, Roths and such and the tone is so good. Of course these are world class players with years of experience behind them, but still — that’s the sound I’m looking for.

They are available and at good prices. Take your time, but you probably need to be ready to travel unless you get super lucky. I bought an older unlabeled German listed on Craigslist for a great price, put a little $ into it and I have to say I like it as well as my A bass, a 50's Wilfer.

Bring a set of strings you like with you, and install them on any bass you're considering if necessary. It's worth the effort.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Bring a set of strings you like with you, and install them on any bass you're considering if necessary. It's worth the effort.

This is a great idea! I have a complete set of Spiros off the Kay right now. I will do that.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Well Quantum emailed me this morning saying that they only have basses above my price range now and no Shens or Eastmans available to try out as well. They instruments they have are beautiful but $15K+.

I contacted a couple of other shops in Houston and am seeing if I can make an appointment to see the basses there. Hopefully someone will get back to me. San Antonio has several great shops, so maybe I’ll head up that way sometime. It sucks I’m so limited with selection down here.

 

[SteveCS]

It was an Eastman VB105 7/8ths 2017 model. It had heliocores on it and they were kind of meh. I love the Eastman 305 with the Busetto corners and they start at $6100. I’m a bit wary to pay that much for a Chinese bass though. I know they have decent build quality but I think I can get something much more special for that price.

...
...
Some might open up over time but if you play them enough you can tell which ones are choked up (for whatever reason) and what not. Sometimes bowing them will help them open up and you can get a sense for what it might sound like in the long run.
...

My daughter played a solo concert with hers just a few weeks ago. Just her and a piano playing Bottesini, Eccles, Dragonetti, Jacob and Rachmaninoff. In 9 months from new it really has opened up. It sang like a bird and had no problems keeping up with a Steinway grand with the lid up in a 400-seat auditorium. That said, I understand and can accept the reticence towards China as an 'organisation'.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I'm going into Lisle Violin Shop in Katy, TX tomorrow to spend some time with six (yes 6!) basses in their practice room. I'm really excited about actually being in a shop with more than one bass in it. I'm hoping it goes well.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Ok. I went to check out basses today in Houston at Lisle Violin Shop and I fell in love with a Krutz Model 400 bass. It was strung with Kaplans and it just sounded wonderful under the bow, and the pizz and slap sound was great as well. Unfortunately it has a silver dollar sized hole punched into the bottom near the endpin, so they are going to have it repaired and let me know how much it might drop the cost. They’re asking $5500 which seems to be market price. It feels to be very well set up and the fingerboard and action are just about perfect for me. The broken piece is floating around inside the bass and it appears to have broken off in one piece, so I’m hopeful for a clean repair.

They had two other of their stock basses in there that sounded just okay and they had a Calin Wultur bass that didn’t sound all that great. The other bass I liked was a Core Soloist bass with a beautiful flamed grain. It felt nice and played well, but that Krutz…wow! (It’s the second bass in the picture of the basses on the stands).

I’ve done a bit of digging on here and it seems that the Krutz owners here on TB seem to really enjoy their basses. I’m going to have them put it on hold for me.

The shop manager there told me an interesting tidbit about Lisle Violin Shop: both Mitch Moering and Joey Naeger started their luthier careers there. Whoever does their setups now seems to know what he’s doing. All in all this was a fruitful trip.

 

[Don Hergert]

Will repairing the hole make it sound "just okay" like the others???

Mostly just kidding. Best of luck with this one, I hope whatever you get turns out to be a great pleasure for you to play!!!

 

[Keith Rawlings]

The basses all had Kaplans or Heliocores on them. I would have preferred Spiros or guts but none of the basses were strung with those.

It was so cool to hear such a thunderous arco tone from all of the instruments as compared to my Kay; but the Krutz sounded the best to me. It also helped that they let me use a nice Coda German bow, which felt wonderful in my hands. So light and balanced!

 

[AGCurry]

The basses all had Kaplans or Heliocores on them. I would have preferred Spiros or guts but none of the basses were strung with those.

It was so cool to hear such a thunderous arco tone from all of the instruments as compared to my Kay; but the Krutz sounded the best to me. It also helped that they let me use a nice Coda German bow, which felt wonderful in my hands. So light and balanced!

Pretty! Is this a new bass, or used? I would assume new, as the Krutzes come with Kaplans by default.

Given the hole, you should be able to make a decent deal. If you pay more than $5k, ask for a bow or some strings thrown in.

 

[SteveCS]

If you pay more than $5k, ask for a bow or some strings thrown in.

Given the 10% rule - a bow of 'comparable standing' to the bass should be about 10% of the bass price - that would be an impressive deal. But yes, a good set of strings at a couple of hundred would be a nice sweetener.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Pretty! Is this a new bass, or used? I would assume new, as the Krutzes come with Kaplans by default.

Given the hole, you should be able to make a decent deal. If you pay more than $5k, ask for a bow or some strings thrown in.

This is exactly what I’m shooting for; a reduced price or something thrown in with it. It’s a brand new bass and it sounded so good; and the neck was so comfortable to play on.

Given the 10% rule - a bow of 'comparable standing' to the bass should be about 10% of the bass price - that would be an impressive deal. But yes, a good set of strings at a couple of hundred would be a nice sweetener.

They’re going to let me know how much it’ll affect the price. I’d like to have them string it with my old, dead Spiros on the E and A and buy a new Oliv D and G for it. I bet the Olivs will sound fantastic on this bass.

 

[Ed S]

...Unfortunately it has a silver dollar sized hole punched into the bottom near the endpin, so they are going to have it repaired and let me know how much it might drop the cost. They’re asking $5500 which seems to be market price. It feels to be very well set up and the fingerboard and action are just about perfect for me. The broken piece is floating around inside the bass and it appears to have broken off in one piece, so I’m hopeful for a clean repair....

Glad you found a bass you like. Anyone have any idea how something like this hole happens?