The "Stand Your Ground" Law....

[Dominic D]

Criminals do not follow the law. If you ban guns, they keep buying them illegally off the black market. Heck, most criminals already own guns illegally to avoid paper trail. If they can't use guns, they'll use knives. They'll stab people in the temple with sharpened pencils if they have to.

 

[Unrepresented]

Soo, then I shouldn't have access to those either?!

As a society we're not using the weapons we have safely. We need to determine a way to decrease access to them by people who will harm innocent citizens. The likelihood is that barriers to preventing those who shouldn't have them may impact accessibility to others. In exchange for a safety society I would hope most would feel that is a reasonable step to take.

 

[Unrepresented]

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

It's getting late.

Guns are quick and effective ways to make impulse decisions with, arson isn't. Let's reduce the amount of quick, effective, and impulsive ways we allow ourselves to kill each other even if we can't eliminate every possible way of killing each other.

Criminals do not follow the law. If you ban guns, they keep buying them illegally off the black market. Heck, most criminals already own guns illegally to avoid paper trail. If they can't use guns, they'll use knives. They'll stab people in the temple with sharpened pencils if they have to.

Where do black market guns come from? They come from citizens who had legally acquired them. Reduce the number of guns and you reduce the number of black market guns as well.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I believe the topic was SYG, and the question has been answered by the judge already. Expect closure soon. Gun control debate is almost politics by definition.

In NZ you can't have any handgun unless it's at a gunclub or locked up. Works for us. Criminals mostly use shotguns and bats.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I think if shells and bullets had serial numbers it would help some in reducing black market availability of ammunition. Good opportunity to bring all bullet manufacturing back to the US.

 

[Rich McCoy]

Man this is such a worn out argument.

 

[elgecko]

We can't have this thread without two fingers. It's just not right!

 

[bostonasphalt2]

BTL:

I support 100% anyone's right to challenge any law that they do not see fit at any time for any reason but, having said that, I can not support someone doing that with factually incorrect statements.

1. It did not work for Zimmerman. His SYG application was denied.

2. That 71 YO LEO's SYG application lasted all of about 10 seconds in front of that judge before his trial was set.

3. The self defense laws have ALWAYS been based on a reasonable fear of harm. You have ALWAYS been able to shoot someone that has placed you in reasonable fear.

4. SYG removes the "duty to retreat" or the requirement to "run away! run away!" if you will.

5. That is pretty much all SYG does from a criminal standpoint, the rest is protection from civil action for the most part.

It is not a license to kill
It is not permission to "bait and wait" or "bait and bang"

And no. That guy is not going to walk. He is going to get spanked as hard as you can spank a 71 year old.

This post right here says it all. Everyone, especially people who are appalled that people are even armed, should read it. And then read it again.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Guns are quick and effective ways to make impulse decisions with, arson isn't. Let's reduce the amount of quick, effective, and impulsive ways we allow ourselves to kill each other even if we can't eliminate every possible way of killing each other.

Where do black market guns come from? They come from citizens who had legally acquired them. Reduce the number of guns and you reduce the number of black market guns as well.

Wrong, or at least incomplete. Straw purchases (purchasing firearms with the intent to give them to someone else who cannot have them, etc) is actually illegal. Most guns in bad peoples hands are either straw purchases, stolen from someone who legally acquired them or in the hands of someone who is mentally unstable.

Please look at crime stats for places with strict gun laws versus places without. You will be shocked to see your idea here isn't actually supported by the facts.

 

[Unrepresented]

This post right here says it all. Everyone, especially people who are appalled that people are even armed, should read it. And then read it again.

That doesn't un-kill the man shot, or the 10,000+ other Americans murdered annually with guns.

 

[Schlyder]

People kill people.
Guns are inanimate objects.
Blaming guns is irrational, illogical, and emotional.

 

[Hamlet7768]

It worked for Zimmerman.

No it didn't. "Stand Your Ground" was not part of his defence's case.

 

[Unrepresented]

People kill people.
Guns are inanimate objects.
Blaming guns is irrational, illogical, and emotional.

I don't blame guns, but I do blame people having access to them. Humans are irrational, illogical, and emotional the harder we make it to murder each other the safer we are.

 

[Dominic D]

Where do black market guns come from? They come from citizens who had legally acquired them. Reduce the number of guns and you reduce the number of black market guns as well.

They'll sneak them across the borders. If the criminal want to kill people, they'll find a way.

 

[BawanaRik]

As a society we're not using the weapons we have safely. We need to determine a way to decrease access to them by people who will harm innocent citizens. The likelihood is that barriers to preventing those who shouldn't have them may impact accessibility to others. In exchange for a safety society I would hope most would feel that is a reasonable step to take.

But I suspect most do not.

Your "safety society" would be best served by insuring children are created by those capable of raising them to be "safety" citizens. Address the root cause. Not something that feels good to those of the LCD.

 

[BawanaRik]

They'll sneak them across the borders. If the criminal want to kill people, they'll find a way.

Fast and Furious anyone? For some reason this thread has me jonesing for a movie.

When does the next installment of F&F come out?

 

[Schlyder]

That statement and tactic has been disproved many times. As it is well documented that the areas with the highest levels of gun crime are in areas with the strictest firearm regulations. Access to law abiding citizens is NOT an issue. It is a RIGHT.

 

[fmoore200]

We can't have this thread without two fingers. It's just not right!

Don't feel too bad, I'm sure he's lurking

 

[WardEarth]

Communist!

 

[eyeballkid]

As a society we're not using the weapons we have safely. We need to determine a way to decrease access to them by people who will harm innocent citizens. The likelihood is that barriers to preventing those who shouldn't have them may impact accessibility to others. In exchange for a safety society I would hope most would feel that is a reasonable step to take.

Nope. If it in any way prevents or hinders my ability to defend my wife and boy from any threat that has faced a civilian in any country short of a tank or missile it is NOT a reasonable request. That need was so basic a right and need it was enshrined at the beginning. I, and you, have the right to arm ourselves against all threats, foreign and domestic, that would endanger our lives or liberty. We live in an artificially safe fishbowl at the moment compared to the rest of the world, even with the threat of the occasional crazy with a gun, but that may not, and probably will not ALWAYS be the case. The winds of fortune for countries change very quickly and I will always make sure I have a fighting chance for my loved ones. So should you. I may have wasted a few grand on weapons that I may never need, but that is better than wishing I could give my right arm for one when I find I really need it.