No sir; you're too busy building!
I was hoping for a video of someone playing the same fingerstyle section with each box set the same.
Just exactly what do you get with an extra 100 Volts and big old school components
?
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The Sushi Box FX Secret Society
- Thread starter kranahan
- Start date
No sir; you're too busy building!
I was hoping for a video of someone playing the same fingerstyle section with each box set the same.
Just exactly what do you get with an extra 100 Volts and big old school components
?
The big old school components allow for the extra 100V, those components themselves don't really sound any different from SMD ones...Just exactly what do you get with an extra 100 Volts and big old school components
That said, a side-by-side would be really nice because I do want to hear what those extra 100 volts sound like on the tube! ...and decide if I want to upgrade my Slampegg X and Finally...
Are you saying that the SMD components can't be found to work at higher voltages?
This seems odd since we still build tube gear with SMD's.
Also, I wonder if anything actually see the full 100V other than the power supply and the tube itself.
There are SMD capacitors that can handle 350V, but I don't stock them and they're bigger than the typical sizes I use. The capacitors are really the limiting factor as resistors don't care what voltage is across them as long as their power rating isn't exceeded. So the resistors and capacitors are both seeing the high voltage, but the capacitors are the only ones that really care. I could give a TED talk and go into more detail, but it gets mathematical and will start to feel like a college lecture.
Thanks for this explanation!
So if the 350V capacitors were available and could be made to fit, and all else SMD remained the same, could one hear a difference between the two since the tube voltage would be the same?
Not trying to split hairs but I do feel that there is a common misconception that old "vintage" caps and resistors offered some audio magic. Based on math alone, don't tropical fish, orange drop, paper in oil, etc. all really sound the same?
It might be an individual case, but the Rec Out has become somewhat crucial for my current Setup lately:
Main Signal Chain:
Korg Tuner -> Tranzformer CMP -> Royale TS -> Amp
Royale TS Loop Chain:
Royale Send -> LBA Optimu Prime -> Smoke Signal (Normal Out) -> Royale Return
Smoke Signal Rec Out -> Two Notes Torpedo Cab M
The Royale TS is based on the Trainor TS-50B. Its kind of like a Rusty Box with loop, HPF, DI, speaker sim and phase switch for the loop. You have the option to either use the loop as a second channel (The way I use it with the blue channel in my Folk Rock Band) or to mix it with the preamp (like a blend - The way I use it with the red channel in my Punk Rock Band).
The Folk Rock Band is the one I`m playing live the most and thats where the Rec Out and the Torpedo come into play. The Royale Loop Send is always letting the signal through, even when the Royale is bypassed. We are often playing difficult locations, rooms, stages where the stage sound has to be very different from the PA sound. Thats where I´m sending a clean signal to my Amp and the SS + IR to Front of House. That way the audience gets the sound I want them to hear and I can dial in whatever I need to hear myself on stage.
To my ears the Filter more like a voicing / additional sound option then a speaker emulation. It works pretty well with the Torpedo and other IRs but I also could live without them. I also like that the Rec Out seems isolated.
So, yeah I`m using and liking the Rec Out, but Like I said: individual case here.
There's a big can of worms in that question, and the debate has been raging for decades on the subject. So based on math alone I will say that IN MOST CONDITIONS you will not hear a difference between the two. Where you are likely to hear a difference is in extreme operating conditions like high voltage and high temperatures. Tube circuits have both. How much a difference will you hear? How high does the temperature and/or voltage need to be before the dielectric material makes a difference in sound? That's where the debate gets muddy, and where I try to avoid conjecture.
There is some good reading out there if you're looking for rabbit holes to dive down, I enjoyed this one: https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt796/slyt796.pdf?ts=1644701201168
More headroom.Just exactly what do you get with an extra 100 Volts and big old school components
The HW SH sounds noticeably different than the SMD SH.
I look at it like those pedals that allow you to run it at 9V or 18V.
Do you hear a difference?
Is that difference favorable?
I know you have a PDR.
Have you run it at both 9V and 18V? And did you find any difference that made you sway one way or the other?
That 100V makes a difference. Whether or not it's a favorable one is up to you.
@Sushi Box FX
Random thought: are the two channels on the Smoke Signal out of phase like the original Meatsmoke? If so, you might consider “fixing” that somehow on your redesign. I was having issues using a clean DI mixed with the send from the preamp, since the dirty channel was out of Phase I couldn’t switch channels when using a clean blend. I had Ben Verellen correct this when I upgraded from the preamp to my customized head.
Random thought: are the two channels on the Smoke Signal out of phase like the original Meatsmoke? If so, you might consider “fixing” that somehow on your redesign. I was having issues using a clean DI mixed with the send from the preamp, since the dirty channel was out of Phase I couldn’t switch channels when using a clean blend. I had Ben Verellen correct this when I upgraded from the preamp to my customized head.
But it does come down to splitting hairs, teeny tiny itsy bitsy hairs on microscopic gnat butts, the most rare gnat butts of all. Some folk can wax on, wax off poetically how it only makes sense, every knows, they believe, I've heard people say ....... But there is no quantifiable proof, never.
Opinions are after all like ...
I know not everyone here is into the technical side of how stuff works, but for those that are and happen to be in the mood to read more of my ramblings, I had some requests on another forum to explain how I go about designing tube preamps and wrote up another TED talk 
Tubes 101 - Intro to Tube Preamp Design
Tubes 101 - Intro to Tube Preamp Design
I do have a PDR and have only run it at 9V as it has plenty of headroom with my basses.
To your point, it does sound like one would have to have the higher voltage design in both SMT and discrete components to know what the differences really are.
My favorite finishJust got this on the bench for the master volume mod. Serial number says November 2020 batch. OG Dr. Wattson, side jacks, violet sparkle, laser engraved artwork. Four things I don't do anymore
View attachment 4580681
I love my hand wired Space Heater, but I found the gain was too high for my taste, so I tried with a 12AT7 and a 12AU7.
I made this little comparative demo:
Sorry it's a bit long and boring, but I wanted to make it as a neutral reference (and I'm too lazy to start over).
Guess which tube I've kept?
I made this little comparative demo:
Sorry it's a bit long and boring, but I wanted to make it as a neutral reference (and I'm too lazy to start over).
Guess which tube I've kept?
Helpful in hearing tube tone differences!
My guess is that you went with the 12AU7 -- warmth with a hint of hair if you need it.
Hmmm...wondering if Nathan might include an option for which tube preference people want with Space Heater / Finally orders. But -- not sure that's a wise business move in terms of inventory, buying in bulk, etc.
I'm not a tube roller. But I could learn to be one.
EXACTLY!! And we're always hiring. Thank you, Sir
Thanks a lot for this! I'd also guess you went with the 12AU7.
An AV 7 would get you around there too. This is why a lot of bass caster pedals use AU. Input does matter as well, I've had very low output basses run clean where hotter basses drive at the same point with a valve pedal
I'm assuming you went with AU btw
I'm going to guess 12AT7.
I'm thinking if you want a distortion pedal the 12AU might not be enough plus the quality of the distortion with the 12AT sounded like it might work better in a mix.
I'm thinking if you want a distortion pedal the 12AU might not be enough plus the quality of the distortion with the 12AT sounded like it might work better in a mix.
