The Tal Wilkenfeld Thread

[Dr. Cheese]

I see why you say that, but to me, this is the interesting and most debatable point in the thread - whether it is appropriate, inappropriate, sad, expected, enthusiastically received, decried, etc, etc. for an attractive person to use their looks to their professional advantage.

The moral position would probably lean towards negative, especially when the person in question is young like Tal is. Empirically, though, we can see many examples of young, attractive people leveraging their appearances in addition to their undeniable talent to make the most of their opportunity.

Two examples - Danica Patrick, an Indy car driver, states that she understands and encourages the attention she gets because of her appearance, so long as it results in more exposure for her sport overall.

Last night I watched an MTV-HD presentation of a live unplugged concert that Alicia Keys did. She also is a relatively young woman who is absolutely burning up with talent, who is not at all hard on the eyes. She looked great in the concert, and when the guy from Maroon 5 did a guest appearance the first thing he mentioned was how great she looked (and sounded). It's never been my opinion that she avoids being perceived as beautiful, nor presenting herself thus.

I'm not necessarily taking a position, just providing a few data points.

I don't think the comparison to Alicia Keys, in particular, is valid. Alicia, who I really admire, is a singer, a person who is out front. Looking cute and sexy is a huge part of being a pop star. I remember the first time I ever saw Alicia Keys was on the cover of a magazine reclining in tight jeans with snap undone and the zipper halfway down. I had never heard her sing a note, but that photo sure got my attention!

Tal, however, is always in jeans and t-shirts or flannel. I can't speak for anyone else, but that look says to me, "I'm a player," not "I'm sexy."

 

[Norwegianwood]

morf, if you truly believe Tal is revolutionizing anything you need to listen to more players. Again, she's a good player but so are a lot of players her age, past and present. This is not a remarkable feat as it's been done many times before. I believe the normal reaction to Tal would go something like this: Play her CD to someone that has never heard it before without telling them who it is. I think most would say that sounds good, nice playing. Then tell them the player happens to be a girl in her early 20's. Really!?? That's incredible! I can't believe how good she is. The point is that the perception of most people totally changes when you bring in the fact that she is a young girl, that when they first heard it it was good but now they know it's a girl it sounds incredible. Take away the fact that she's a young girl and just look at the music, she is good, not revolutionary, just good. And that's OK. Maybe one day she'll be one of the greats but we are a looooong way from that.

I can´t seem to find your point in here. You always have to take age into consideration when you "judge" anyones playing. What I´ve heard from Tal with jeff beck, is incredible mature for a 21 year old. Very professional, very solid, and even a bit virtousoish. I don´t know many 21 year old bass players who would manage that well.

I am one of those guys you point out, and I don´t see what´s wrong with that at all. If I just heard her, I´d say "this is a very good bass player". But when I know she´s a young girl, I value her work on another level. Because:
-She is obviously very good for her age. You got to give credit for that.
-The bass (and jazz) family need more femininity and it´s AWESOME that a girl get this recognition. It´s just so cool, and hopefully she could aspire more young girls to follow in her footsteps.

So I guess we agree, but I just do not see any problem with reacting that way at all.

 

[morf]

I'll preface my comments by saying:
1. She can run circles around me as a musician so I'm not comparing my musical ability to hers at all! (before the "lets see how you play" comments start to fly)
2. I dont care what she looks like or what gender she is
3. I dont care how old she is
4. I dont care how long she has been playing..

She is an amazing bass player BUT, when I've heard her stuff on youtube, sound clips online, or anywhere else, I can't help to think to myself "How is this any different than other excellent bass players"? Maybe I'm just missing it but I'm not hearing anything revolutionary or anything that is making me shat my pants. Ive heard a couple grooves that may me bob my hear, but thats about it. Maybe if she was on the scene 20-30 years ago, then I would consider what she is doing revolutionary to bass playing. This may very well be attributed to me not liking the style of music she is playing which I kind of equate to "Sunday Morning Jazz" (again, just my opinion!). I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential do something revolutionary in the future because she just might. But I'm not hearing it right now.

Again, she is light years beyond what I am (and may ever be) as a musician but I may have missed the boat here. What am I missing??

You're not missing anything. Revolution is a process and she's a really young bassist. Give it time. She has the chops, the tone, the groove and most importantly the love of the instrument. Personally, when I listen to some of what she does, I can see how mature and incredibly tasteful her playing is. Her foundations are SOLID, now she needs to take matters into her own hands. Just you wait

 

[Uncle Vester]

But maybe Jeff Beck has no clue what he's doing and you guys have it all figured out.

Perhaps Jeff Beck just didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to have this young cutie in his band.


I need to say that the first bits of her I saw on youtube didn't really make my jaw drop. (That Bass Day Solo, for instance)

Of course, chops aren't the only factor in grabbing a spot in a band. She's a damn good player from what I saw and heard in the jeff beck video, and there's some nice, melodic playing on her album right there.

Not to mention that she deserves credit just for holding it down with the likes of Beck and Colaiuta.

Still, I don't see why she should revolutionize bass playing at some point. Maybe she will, one day, but until then, such a statement is a bit of a wild guess. Aside from that, I DO believe that her age and gender contribute to her getting some of the attention she's getting right now.

And just for the record: I'm not mad about not getting to play the Jeff Beck tour. I'd have never even thought about going to an audition.

 

[morf]

Perhaps Jeff Beck just didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to have this young cutie in his band.


I need to say that the first bits of her I saw on youtube didn't really make my jaw drop. (That Bass Day Solo, for instance)

Of course, chops aren't the only factor in grabbing a spot in a band. She's a damn good player from what I saw and heard in the jeff beck video, and there's some nice, melodic playing on her album right there.

Not to mention that she deserves credit just for holding it down with the likes of Beck and Colaiuta.

Still, I don't see why she should revolutionize bass playing at some point. Maybe she will, one day, but until then, such a statement is a bit of a wild guess. Aside from that, I DO believe that her age and gender contribute to her getting some of the attention she's getting right now.

And just for the record: I'm not mad about not getting to play the Jeff Beck tour. I'd have never even thought about going to an audition.

Quite frankly, if Jeff Beck's only thought was playing with a cutie, he could have done better The only ones giving her attention because of age and gender are the people making ridiculous statements such as this one. You are letting her gender blind your opinion by thinking it blinds mine.

A bit of a wild guess? Man I hope this thread still exists in a couple of years. I'll be bumping it and quoting each disagreeing post in here

 

[Peter Parker]

Hey, Morf are you hoping to get a date with Tal or something? For the life of me I can't understand why you feel that she will revolutionize anything. Have you not heard many play as well or better? When Jaco was her age he revolutionized music and bass playing. Do you really think Tal will have the same impact?

 

[morf]

Hey, Morf are you hoping to get a date with Tal or something? For the life of me I can't understand why you feel that she will revolutionize anything. Have you not heard many play as well or better? When Jaco was her age he revolutionized music and bass playing. Do you really think Tal will have the same impact?

No, again, I'm not looking for a date I just think she's really got the gift.

I don't know if she'll have the same impact as Jaco, but I think there's enough originality in her playing to make her stand out from the lot.

 

[Michael Case]

I just watched a few videos and listened to her myspace tunes. That kid can play! End of story.

 

[GlennW]

End of story.

Wanna bet?

 

[Bassgirlsara]

Girl bass power, wooo!!!

 

[fenderhutz]

^^^^^^

The most educated post in this thread to date.

 

[Uncle Vester]

You are letting her gender blind your opinion by thinking it blinds mine.

I wasn't talking about the amount of attention she's getting from you.

And what's ridiculous about me calling her a damn good player. By the way, did you notice the yellow thingy? I really feel like you didn't even read my entire post.

 

[Michael Case]

Why do you care about the amount of hype she receives? It's not like she some hack who CAN'T play. I think it's a shame that people can't just come together and appreciate a talented musician getting ahead in this American Idol/Brittany Spears world. Do I think she's gonna break new ground as a bassist? I don't care, I think she's a good player and enjoy what she's doing. With all the half wit root thumping/head banging image "musicians" getting tons of hype I feel proud that here's a bassist that can really play getting noticed.

Hey Sara, nice playing. Keep up the good work.

 

[morf]

I wasn't talking about the amount of attention she's getting from you.

Then perhaps you shouldn't quote me before typing your post?

And what's ridiculous about me calling her a damn good player. By the way, did you notice the yellow thingy? I really feel like you didn't even read my entire post.

What's ridiculous is you laying another layer of butter on the gender toast, it's been done and overdone to the point where yes, it's getting ridiculous. But then I guess you don't know this, since you didn't even read the entire thread

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Hey, Morf are you hoping to get a date with Tal or something?

That says alot about your attitude toward her as a woman instead of as a bassist.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I didn't say she wasn't good, I was just pointing out she is getting more hype than a fat, bald, 40 year old player with the same skills.

If she was dude and her name was Hal Wilkenfeld and was fat, balding, and 40 we wouldn't have 9,000+ views and 10 pages of responses.

So yes her age and chromosome affiliation are blinding the discussion a bit.

That's exactly the point, no one would be excited about a 40 year man or woman who had been playing for twenty years with Tal's skills. 21 and playing five years, that's something!

 

[deaf pea]

I don't think the comparison to Alicia Keys, in particular, is valid. Alicia, who I really admire, is a singer, a person who is out front...a pop star...

True, but I've ALWAYS thought of her as a singer/SONGWRITER/PIANIST/PRODUCER . . . the "singer/pop star" is only a small part of the whole, very talented, package . . .

Sorry for going "off-topic" (maybe this post should be in the "black chicks" thread!), but AK is hot AND as talented behind the scenes as she is in performance . . .

 

[ThunderGod]

I think it is about time somebody brings our attention back around to actually PLAYING the bass. Too many of us are out there getting wrapped up on how BIG our basses are, and how fast we can slap the *%#$ out of it. Leave it to a talented young lady to get us all talking again.

I say "It's about time!"...and; "Thank you, TAL!"

 

[Pacman]

I didn't say she wasn't good, I was just pointing out she is getting more hype than a fat, bald, 40 year old player with the same skills.

If she was dude and her name was Hal Wilkenfeld and was fat, balding, and 40 we wouldn't have 9,000+ views and 10 pages of responses.

So yes her age and chromosome affiliation are blinding the discussion a bit.

I totally disagree.

I know of a few fat, balding guys who play like she does - and they get attention. The real point is she has more skills than most of the guys twice her age. And that's worth attention. (For anyone)

 

[the JT]

I wonder if Tal herself will end up reading this thread.