The Tal Wilkenfeld Thread

[morf]

There absolutely is leaving age out of it. What does age have to do with being revolutionary?

Maybe you don't really mean "revolutionary"... I don't know. The word means something and I'm asking how it fits.

As far as what will happen in a few years... that's not revolution, it's clairvoyance.




At this point I'll remind people that this really has little to do with Tal specifically, more about explaining a description of her. IME there really aren't very many revolutionary players.

When someone goes on stage, picks up their instrument, and blows everybody's head off leaving them jaw dropped, that's revolutionary IMHO. She has that effect on my jaw (please restrain yourself from making the obvious pokes, thanks), and I can count on one hand the bassists who have that same effect on me.

When someone moves me emotionally through music, they are revolutionary because they succeeded in reaching out and leaving me speechless and (dare I say it) all hot and bothered (strictly, again, from a musical standpoint). I lack the proper vocabulary to describe this well enough to make myself understood it seems, but she has a way, a feel, a language through bass that IMHO, noone else has, and that makes her not only special but revolutionary in terms of bass playing.

For example, when I hear her play live on A Day In The Life, she leaves me in a daze for quite some time after the song is over. Jeff Beck doesn't, at least not in that particular version. She's the one bringing the special je ne sais quoi D) IMHO.

 

[morf]

I heard she is stealing the show from Jeff Beck on the tour.

IMHO, she totally is. At least what I've heard of it so far.

 

[morf]

Surely we are not only speaking of technique. You need to stop defining our positions for us!

The current discussion is certainly utterly silly, and merely a question of definitions and interpretations of words.

But useless discussion is underestimated, imho

I'm trying to understand why she's not moving you. I don't think it's a silly discussion, it's nice to get opinion and see things from another perspective.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

I watched all the Youtube videos again last night. I really like her style and sound. Being able to play and interact with Beck can't be the easiest gig in the world either. I would love to see them live!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

When someone goes on stage, picks up their instrument, and blows everybody's head off leaving them jaw dropped, that's revolutionary IMHO. She has that effect on my jaw (please restrain yourself from making the obvious pokes, thanks), and I can count on one hand the bassists who have that same effect on me.

When someone moves me emotionally through music, they are revolutionary because they succeeded in reaching out and leaving me speechless and (dare I say it) all hot and bothered (strictly, again, from a musical standpoint). I lack the proper vocabulary to describe this well enough to make myself understood it seems, but she has a way, a feel, a language through bass that IMHO, noone else has, and that makes her not only special but revolutionary in terms of bass playing.

For example, when I hear her play live on A Day In The Life, she leaves me in a daze for quite some time after the song is over. Jeff Beck doesn't, at least not in that particular version. She's the one bringing the special je ne sais quoi D) IMHO.

And that really has nothing to do with revolution. What do you think the word means?

 

[bassman275]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution

 

[kirkm24]

And that really has nothing to do with revolution. What do you think the word means?

Revolutionary is when someone brings about a change or reformation to something already in existence. In our terms, a revolutionary bass player would push the instrument to new limits (ie. Jaco, (maybe) Vic). Tal might not be revolutionary yet, but she is still very young in her playing career. She could ultimately be looked back on as having been a revolutionary player but it might be too early to tell at this point if she is. There is no question that she is special and the music community will be enjoying her talents for a long time to come barring she doesn't do anything stupid and ruin her life (i.e. drugs and alcohol).

Larry Graham was a revolutionary bass player for sure and he didn't necessarily do anything extremely difficult, he just created a whole new way to play the instrument (slap).

 

[morf]

And that really has nothing to do with revolution. What do you think the word means?

It has everything to do with revolution. It's just sad you don't get that. But good on you for trying to be patronizing Brad, as usual you excel at the game. Have a cookie.

 

[deaf pea]

Hey, what's up . . . Am I on everbody's "ignore" list?

...it IS true that she's only been playing BASS for 5 years, but she has been playing AND STUDYING music for a LOT longer than 5 years! IIRC she quit school (at 16 years old!) to work full-time on her guitar-playing career . . . that's 7 or 8 years ago, folks . . .

Does anybody here know how long Tal has been playing (and studying) MUSIC?

Any info?

I'm thinking 14 or 15 years, maybe . . .

 

[morf]

Larry Graham was a revolutionary bass player for sure and he didn't necessarily do anything extremely difficult, he just created a whole new way to play the instrument (slap).

See thats not the revolutionary I mean, at least not in the sense which I am talking of. You can be revolutionary technique wise (like in your example) and you can be revolutionary groove wise, for lack of a better term or more extensive vocabulary. She nails the definition as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bassman275]

Hey, what's up . . . Am I on everbody's "ignore" list?



Any info?

I'm thinking 14 or 15 years, maybe . . .

+1 I'm thinking 12-15 years studying music...She is for sure more seasoned than most Younger players.She is a tremendous talent IMHO of course!

 

[Brad Johnson]

It has everything to do with revolution. It's just sad you don't get that. But good on you for trying to be patronizing Brad, as usual you excel at the game. Have a cookie.

Again?

I was hoping the drama queen act wouldn't continue but oh well. Why do something new at this point?



There wasn't a damn thing patronizing about anything I wrote. That is just how you apparently need to read it. Only you know why.

Revolution is about CHANGE. It's very clear that you just don't get that... you haven't provided anything close to a cogent answer yet. Then again maybe she appears revolutionary TO YOU based on what YOU have been exposed to. You'll no doubt find a way to take that as an insult vs. a possible reason why you think she's revolutionary and others don't "get it". It would make sense in that light but would hold no merit to others who weren't working with those limitations.

If that's the case, forget about it.

The idea of someone being revolutionary because of what you think they MIGHT do in the future defies logic. You're making it very clear you can't get that either.

Again, I'm a fan. I've probably seen her IRL more than you have over the years. I like what I hear... but that doesn't cloud the idea that this is a change in music or bass.

 

[Brad Johnson]

See thats not the revolutionary I mean, at least not in the sense which I am talking of. You can be revolutionary technique wise (like in your example) and you can be revolutionary groove wise, for lack of a better term or more extensive vocabulary. She nails the definition as far as I'm concerned.

What is she doing that you haven't heard before?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Revolutionary is when someone brings about a change or reformation to something already in existence. In our terms, a revolutionary bass player would push the instrument to new limits (ie. Jaco, (maybe) Vic). Tal might not be revolutionary yet, but she is still very young in her playing career. She could ultimately be looked back on as having been a revolutionary player but it might be too early to tell at this point if she is. There is no question that she is special and the music community will be enjoying her talents for a long time to come barring she doesn't do anything stupid and ruin her life (i.e. drugs and alcohol).

Larry Graham was a revolutionary bass player for sure and he didn't necessarily do anything extremely difficult, he just created a whole new way to play the instrument (slap).

Actually Larry Graham did do things that were extremely difficult. You probably had to be there.


At the risk of causing another hissyfit, here's why: some of you did not come up in a world when Larry Graham and his influence didn't exist. It's really that simple. You don't personally know of a time before he influenced bassplaying. For those who do, much like those who remember bass before Jamerson, before Jaco, before Squire, before Wooten, before Rocco, etc. they understand what it was like to tackle those CHANGES when they actually occurred

 

[morf]

Again?

I was hoping the drama queen act wouldn't continue but oh well. Why do something new at this point?

Drama queen act? You're the one coming in here fidgeting about things, and yes it is patronizing to ask me if I know what revolution means You have got to be the most pompous self righteous man I know. You have every guitarist I know beat by a mile.

There wasn't a damn thing patronizing about anything I wrote. That is just how you apparently need to read it. Only you know why.

You're the one who can't help looking down on people's words 24/7. You may not agree with my opinion, does that mean you understand it? Heck no, and seeing how pompous and self righteous your posts are, you are damn right I dont feel like giving you the benefit of a serious, well thought out response.

Revolution is about CHANGE. It's very clear that you just don't get that... you haven't provided anything close to a cogent answer yet. Then again maybe she appears revolutionary TO YOU based on what YOU have been exposed to. You'll no doubt find a way to take that as an insult vs. a possible reason why you think she's revolutionary and others don't "get it". It would make sense in that light but would hold no merit to others who weren't working with those limitations.

If that's the case, forget about it.

Actually thats the ONLY part of any posts so far that ISN'T insulting, or at the very least self righteous. Revolution is INDEED about change, and change she brings IMHO. If you don't like this opinion thats fine, if you dont understand it, and clearly you dont, thats also fine, but dont try to school me when I say something you dont understand. At the very least, as others have in this thread, TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT FIRST.

The idea of someone being revolutionary because of what you think they MIGHT do in the future defies logic. You're making it very clear you can't get that either.

Again, I'm a fan. I've probably seen her IRL more than you have over the years. I like what I hear... but that doesn't cloud the idea that this is a change in music or bass.

AGAIN, this is a difference of OPINION. If you dont agree, thats fine with me, I dont expect you to even understand my opinion, you are much too close minded for that to happen in this lifetime anyway.

No doubt you've seen her live more than me, I've never seen her live. Still, didn't take much for me to get it. You don't. That's ok, I don't think any less of you for it, learn to do the same.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Revolutionary is when someone brings about a change or reformation to something already in existence. In our terms, a revolutionary bass player would push the instrument to new limits (ie. Jaco, (maybe) Vic). Tal might not be revolutionary yet, but she is still very young in her playing career. She could ultimately be looked back on as having been a revolutionary player but it might be too early to tell at this point if she is. There is no question that she is special and the music community will be enjoying her talents for a long time to come barring she doesn't do anything stupid and ruin her life (i.e. drugs and alcohol).

Larry Graham was a revolutionary bass player for sure and he didn't necessarily do anything extremely difficult, he just created a whole new way to play the instrument (slap).

Actually Larry Graham did do things that were extremely difficult. You probably had to be there.


At the risk of causing another hissyfit, here's why: some of you did not come up in a world when Larry Graham and his influence didn't exist. It's really that simple. You don't personally know of a time before he influenced bassplaying. For those who do, much like those who remember bass before Jamerson, before Jaco, before Squire, before Wooten, before Rocco, etc. they understand what it was like to tackle those CHANGES when they actually occurred.

It's about understanding this stuff in context.

 

[morf]

What is she doing that you haven't heard before?

Not interested in discussing this with you any further, in fact I should have ignored your first reply, I know better by now than have any kind of argument with you

 

[DocBop]

Thats kind of what I was getting at with my question. I respect her as a musician but am failing to see what she is revolutionizing as a bassist. There are many many fantastic music writers that her age that use various instruments as their "voices" and her voice happens to be the bass.

But, even as a musician (as fantastic as she is at composing or creating basslines however melodic they may be) I'm not seeing how its to the point where she is changing the face of music in her genre as people are implying by saying she is revolutionary.

Who says a great player/musician has to revolutionary. If unsure about her skills look at who is hiring her. Before Jeff Beck she was playing with Chick Corea that's a gig that requires a great musician to fill. She's a great bass player that we will be hearing from for years to come.

 

[chadds]

She's tearing it up on a download on Wayne Krantz's site.
You have to pony up your $4.95 but it's worth it to me. About 60 or 70 mins. worth.
Actually more stimulating then the Jeff Beck stuff to me.

 

[morf]

Who says a great player/musician has to revolutionary. If unsure about her skills look at who is hiring her. Before Jeff Beck she was playing with Chick Corea that's a gig that requires a great musician to fill. She's a great bass player that we will be hearing from for years to come.

Nobody says she has to be, or is even asking her to be. It's a simple remark on what I personally think, not an imposition.