not a biggie, believe me, not a biggie. He used to hit on many of the female students. It was so inappropriate at the time, after all he was a professor and they were students.
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The technical bassist. Old school or new school?
- Thread starter KrisWarrington
- Start date
not a biggie, believe me, not a biggie. He used to hit on many of the female students. It was so inappropriate at the time, after all he was a professor and they were students.
The cats that get the work, whether ultra simple, or chop-a-rama make the music feel right. People cop (insert chopsy hero/legend here_______) lines note for note and the all the time and wind up losing the gig because they just can't groove. Other guys lose work playing simple stuff because they can't do it without being/sounding bored.
So if you decide to stick it to the man and start your own " I'll play any way I damn well please" band and don't make it swing really hard you still get no spotlight and play to 3 drunks on a Tuesday. Actually there's a 99% chance, even if you do swing like the devil, you'll still be playing to said 3 (male) drunks on a Tuesday, but I digress.
So if you decide to stick it to the man and start your own " I'll play any way I damn well please" band and don't make it swing really hard you still get no spotlight and play to 3 drunks on a Tuesday. Actually there's a 99% chance, even if you do swing like the devil, you'll still be playing to said 3 (male) drunks on a Tuesday, but I digress.
There was an interview with Ron Carter where he said that he couldn't even imagine how R&B bass players do what they do: play repeating patterns, over and over, grooving flawlessly. He wasn't being negative, either-- he admired it, and really couldn't imagine how they do it. The moral: it takes discipline and concentration to do it.
Because those skills can help you play meat and potatoes bass better, too. Why wouldn't you want to develop yourself as far as you could go? "Eh, it's just bass...no sense in getting good at it..." Sorry, does not compute, Kev.
Doug, for a guy who played 4 repeating notes on the whole of "Cantaloupe Island," Ron Carter really sells himself short
To me, it's the feel of the groove, the way I articulate the notes, how the song breathes, how my tone gives it character, and how I fit into it. I relish it. I hunger for it, that feel. It doesn't take a lot of flashy playing to get it. I don't have to study anyone else to get it.
I was out sick this week with walking pneumonia. Yet, that hunger pushed me to playing my bass while watching TV with the sound down. I didn't have to hold my hand a certain way, or blow out a hundred notes in one measure. Just bass, that's all. And if it's simple, that's fine. But, it's never just simple. There are too many things that go into a good bass part to keep it interesting to me. If I had to pick heroes, I'd say Jamerson and Oakley. But, they're just more like friends. We each have played in our own way to the spirit of bass. And that's where the magic really is.
I was out sick this week with walking pneumonia. Yet, that hunger pushed me to playing my bass while watching TV with the sound down. I didn't have to hold my hand a certain way, or blow out a hundred notes in one measure. Just bass, that's all. And if it's simple, that's fine. But, it's never just simple. There are too many things that go into a good bass part to keep it interesting to me. If I had to pick heroes, I'd say Jamerson and Oakley. But, they're just more like friends. We each have played in our own way to the spirit of bass. And that's where the magic really is.
Because those skills can help you play meat and potatoes bass better, too. Why wouldn't you want to develop yourself as far as you could go? "Eh, it's just bass...no sense in getting good at it..." Sorry, does not compute, Kev.
Doug, for a guy who played 4 repeating notes on the whole of "Cantaloupe Island," Ron Carter really sells himself short
Absolutely. And you can imagine him -- a master -- learning something valuable from the experience, rather than saying, "Jeez, what a boring session."
Three, really, right? The 4th note was an octave.Doug, for a guy who played 4 repeating notes on the whole of "Cantaloupe Island," Ron Carter really sells himself short
There are those who would disagree... but since they are wrong I think it's safe to ignore them.
Anyhow...
I see two main 'attitudes' in TB users, although they are not in any way mutually exclusive. Some seem to favor one over the other, but both are valid perspectives on bass-playing and most TB'ers entertain elements of both.
1: As a musician, you should always strive towards professionalism. This perspective usually comes with experience in the music business and often infers other 'values' such as serving the song, viewing the bass as a tool rather than a toy, having loads of technique but not necessarily using it and mastering all different ways of playing the bass.
2: As a musician you are an artist, nothing should hold you back and experimentation is king. This perspective is a bit more idealistic and usually implies that regarding sound, anything goes as long as it sounds good (to someone, you, me, the audience, whoever). This attitude sometimes comes with a sense of rebellion against the state of things, including the state of bass-playing in pop music.
Most people have aspects of both attitudes depending on the subject at hand.
In my opinion there is no inherent logic to the role in music that the bass has been given. Sure, a bass is good for low notes, but so is a cello or a piano. Or a guitar for that matter. The bass has been proven to be a possible lead instrument many times, but for everyone growing up playing covers that is not going to be their first impression. I think a lot of bassists accept the role given to them by (among others) guitarists simply because there would be no band for them to play in otherwise.
This leads to the part about competitive playing. If you compete with the other instruments in the band you are in then your music will be poorer for it. Period. A battle for attention will lead to messy music, any band has to work together to make the most of their different sounds.
In the real world most music, and especially live music, falls in categories where certain instruments are more prominent than others. If a bassist likes rock'n'roll then it is safe to assume he wants his band to sound like a rock'n'roll band, and should quit whining about the lack of lead bass parts. So competition is out, and that actually goes for complete equality as well.
I enjoy playing the fancy stuff whenever possible, but always look for the openings where a fast run will actually improve the music I am playing. When I get tired of that I play my solo material, 'cause if I ran around the fingerboard it all the time I wouldn't have a band. And I enjoy playing in rockin' a band more than I enjoy technical challenges.
Martin
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
I will only give a song what I am allowed to give. Whether that's self, a producer, artist or any other entity in between that's allowing me that privilege.
And no I am not being sarcastic.
And no I am not being sarcastic.
Funny thing, I actually got rid of my DB because I enjoy the nuances in a bass guitar much more. I really think an electric bass guitar sounds beautiful in the right hands. Guess I must have been wrong...
Music rarely emerge because there is any call for it. I emerges from a person/group of persons creating something because they enjoy it, and sometimes other people enjoy it too. Like the many who enjoy 'bass shredding', even if you think it sounds bad. It's all a matter of personal preferences.
Martin
We had a drummer once, who loved doing double bass pedal, super busy, noisy riffs all the time. He listened to a ton of metal, and like to play that style, and considered Classic Rock "too easy."
Which is why I laughed at him when he could not nail a Ringo part.
Ringo is a master of rhythm. He plays beats that are distinct, and have a life of their own.
Many of the more "technical" drummers sound like pure crap. (not the really GOOD ones, mind you!)
This can happen on any instrument. What matters most is the sound you make, not how difficult it is to make it.
Get good, but stay humble, because there will always be some simple fool like me out there, just waiting for a chance to laugh at you.
Which is why I laughed at him when he could not nail a Ringo part.
Ringo is a master of rhythm. He plays beats that are distinct, and have a life of their own.
Many of the more "technical" drummers sound like pure crap. (not the really GOOD ones, mind you!)
This can happen on any instrument. What matters most is the sound you make, not how difficult it is to make it.
Get good, but stay humble, because there will always be some simple fool like me out there, just waiting for a chance to laugh at you.
We had a drummer once, who loved doing double bass pedal, super busy, noisy riffs all the time. He listened to a ton of metal, and like to play that style, and considered Classic Rock "too easy."
Which is why I laughed at him when he could not nail a Ringo part.
Ringo is a master of rhythm. He plays beats that are distinct, and have a life of their own.
Many of the more "technical" drummers sound like pure crap. (not the really GOOD ones, mind you!)
This can happen on any instrument. What matters most is the sound you make, not how difficult it is to make it.
Get good, but stay humble, because there will always be some simple fool like me out there, just waiting for a chance to laugh at you.
Funny you should mention Ringo, because the story reminds me of a teenage guitarist I saw once in a guitar store. He was tapping Chopin's "Minute Waltz", and it was pretty close to the original tempo.
This was at the height of the Yngwie Malmsteen neo-classical metal shredding era.Anyway, a few of us were standing around thinking, "Damn, I have to admit that this kid is impressive." Then, he tried to play the sitar line in "Norwegian Wood", couldn't find it, fished around for a couple of minutes, still couldn't find it, and then went back to the "Minute Waltz." It was amusing.
Recently, in another thread, someone made the astute observation that it's not how hard McCartney's parts were... it's that he came up with them in the first place. I put Ringo in the same category. Listen to the parts he created for the songs on "Rubber Soul." (Plus, he has phenomenal time.)
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
In this day and time of sexual harassment lawsuits, he would have been fired so fast his head would be spinning!
Like you, I went to school when people were playing fast and loose. In this day and time, all of us in the Academic Community are extremely careful!
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
There are those who would disagree... but since they are wrong I think it's safe to ignore them.
Anyhow...
I see two main 'attitudes' in TB users, although they are not in any way mutually exclusive. Some seem to favor one over the other, but both are valid perspectives on bass-playing and most TB'ers entertain elements of both.
1: As a musician, you should always strive towards professionalism. This perspective usually comes with experience in the music business and often infers other 'values' such as serving the song, viewing the bass as a tool rather than a toy, having loads of technique but not necessarily using it and mastering all different ways of playing the bass.
2: As a musician you are an artist, nothing should hold you back and experimentation is king. This perspective is a bit more idealistic and usually implies that regarding sound, anything goes as long as it sounds good (to someone, you, me, the audience, whoever). This attitude sometimes comes with a sense of rebellion against the state of things, including the state of bass-playing in pop music.
Most people have aspects of both attitudes depending on the subject at hand.
In my opinion there is no inherent logic to the role in music that the bass has been given. Sure, a bass is good for low notes, but so is a cello or a piano. Or a guitar for that matter. The bass has been proven to be a possible lead instrument many times, but for everyone growing up playing covers that is not going to be their first impression. I think a lot of bassists accept the role given to them by (among others) guitarists simply because there would be no band for them to play in otherwise.
This leads to the part about competitive playing. If you compete with the other instruments in the band you are in then your music will be poorer for it. Period. A battle for attention will lead to messy music, any band has to work together to make the most of their different sounds.
In the real world most music, and especially live music, falls in categories where certain instruments are more prominent than others. If a bassist likes rock'n'roll then it is safe to assume he wants his band to sound like a rock'n'roll band, and should quit whining about the lack of lead bass parts. So competition is out, and that actually goes for complete equality as well.
I enjoy playing the fancy stuff whenever possible, but always look for the openings where a fast run will actually improve the music I am playing. When I get tired of that I play my solo material, 'cause if I ran around the fingerboard it all the time I wouldn't have a band. And I enjoy playing in rockin' a band more than I enjoy technical challenges.
Martin
That's a pretty sensible attitude, IMO.
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
That's because the concept of the University being sued for millions of dollars for creating a hostile environment for female students hadn't quite matured yet. Now, I can assure you it's Zero Tolerance in most places.
